Westworld back on....who's in?

[A-Tex Devil]

So the scene with Bernard and Dolores in the first scene of Sunday's episode mirrors the conversation between William and robot Delos, I.E., "This is a test." "A test for what." "Fidelity".

[JasonEvans]

So the scene with Bernard and Dolores in the first scene of Sunday's episode mirrors the conversation between William and robot Delos, I.E., "This is a test." "A test for what." "Fidelity".

Yup. Did you not pick up on that?

Meanwhile, a writer at Vanity Fair has come up with a really clever way of figuring out what reality we are in... the TV aspect ratio.

Westworld appears to have given us a clue to help anchor ourselves in this deeply confusing plot. How can we, the audience, tell if we’re inside the Cradle, or out in the real world? Here’s where we come back to the aspect ratio. You can see quite clearly that when the shot moves from Elsie in the Cradle to Bernard inside the Cradle, it goes from full to widescreen.



So any time you see the show go into a widescreen mode, that’s probably (probably) happening inside the Cradle. Right?

Which brings us back to the opening scene of both this episode and Season 2: Dolores and Arnold in a Bernard body. Guess what? It’s in widescreen.

-Jason "mind = blown!!" Evans

[swood1000]

This story reminds me of the movie Primer, which involved a time travel machine allowing people to go back in time, at which point the person will exist twice. There are two people and they decide to go back in time for the purpose of making a killing on the stock market. The plot is hopelessly confusing (to all except those willing to diligently watch it eight or nine times) as to which timeline each person is in. If a person is entering the machine is it the person who was originally in that time period or the version of him that came from some time in the future? One of them tries to go into the past to prevent the whole experiment but the other one beats him to it in order to thwart him. What is the effect on the future of actions taken by a person traveling to the past? There are explainers on YouTube but I’m not convinced that the definitive clarification exists.

[JasonEvans]

This story reminds me of the movie Primer, which involved a time travel machine allowing people to go back in time, at which point the person will exist twice. There are two people and they decide to go back in time for the purpose of making a killing on the stock market. The plot is hopelessly confusing (to all except those willing to diligently watch it eight or nine times) as to which timeline each person is in. If a person is entering the machine is it the person who was originally in that time period or the version of him that came from some time in the future? One of them tries to go into the past to prevent the whole experiment but the other one beats him to it in order to thwart him. What is the effect on the future of actions taken by a person traveling to the past? There are explainers on YouTube but I’m not convinced that the definitive clarification exists.

Most realistic time travel movie ever made. Writer/director/producer/star/editor/composer Shane Carruth says he intentionally made the movie somewhat confusing so the audience could experience the same confusion the characters have about what is going on. One of the key users of the time travel is a character who is barely in the movie!

This image does a great job of explaining everything:



-Jason "if you have not seen Primer (multiple times) you are really, really missing something" Evans

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Are we still paying attention?

[moonpie23]

Last night's episode was the most entertaining of the season (for me)

[JasonEvans]

Are we still paying attention?

Every single ep. I can't decide if last night was a "filler" or if it was important to the larger story.

So, now we have a sentient host, Akecheta, going all the way back to when Delores first took on the Wyatt personality and massacred everyone (including Arnold). I am not clear what caused him to gain sentience. Unlike Maeve and Delores, he was not given "reveries" by Ford. All he did was see the maze left behind by Arnold and that triggered something within him. Uhhh, ok. I did like the revelation that the whole time he was telling the story to Maeve's daughter, he was actually telling it to Maeve because she is connected to her daughter. That's kinda cool.

Still, we are done with episode 8 and it doesn't feel like we are anywhere close to resolving the big mysteries of this season. The way I see it, in the next 2 episodes we need to learn the following:

• What is in Peter Abernathy's head?
• Why did part of the park flood?
• What is Delores' plan to escape the park?
• What is up with the Bernard who woke up on the beach (at the start of the season)? Something major is going on with him.
• What is Ford up to?
• Most importantly, who are the good guys and bad guys? Who should we be rooting for? Other than Delos being an evil corporation bent on selling immortality to the highest bidder, I can't tell who to like and who to root again at this point.

It seems next week will give us a lot of answers about another topic -- the family life of old William (the man in black, Ed Harris) and his relationship with his wife and daughter.

-Jason "I am increasingly resigned to the fact that we won't learn a lot of the answers to the main questions I posted above until season three... which is fine, I guess" Evans

[Wander]

• Why did part of the park flood?
• What is up with the Bernard who woke up on the beach (at the start of the season)? Something major is going on with him.

Which brings me to another question... why did they bother showing us the flashforward in the first place? The only real effect it's had on my viewing is to take a little tension out of a few scenes because I know certain characters must survive. IMO it wasn't important enough to show, it sorta feels like they thought they had to do a multiple timelines thing just for the sake of it.

I do like the season though, and wonder if Dolores will make it to the outside world. We don't know much about the outside world, actually... I wonder if there will be some twist involved there.

[elvis14]

Are we still paying attention?

I haven't watched last night's episode yet but I did get caught up on the rest of the season this weekend. I have to admit, I preferred season 1. I find myself either lost or apathetic for much of this season (of course I'll still watch every episode).

[PSurprise]

I feel myself caring less and less about all the characters after each episode. Bernard is the only character I'm really interested in at this point because it seems he is different. But everyone else-humans and droids-I find myself not giving a lick. It would be shocking if a major character is killed, but will I feel really sad, or mad, if a character is killed off? Not really. If the show explains more about the 'real' world outside the park maybe we can get a better context of the 'whats' and the 'whys'.

[elvis14]

I haven't watched last night's episode yet but I did get caught up on the rest of the season this weekend. I have to admit, I preferred season 1. I find myself either lost or apathetic for much of this season (of course I'll still watch every episode).

I feel myself caring less and less about all the characters after each episode. Bernard is the only character I'm really interested in at this point because it seems he is different. But everyone else-humans and droids-I find myself not giving a lick. It would be shocking if a major character is killed, but will I feel really sad, or mad, if a character is killed off? Not really. If the show explains more about the 'real' world outside the park maybe we can get a better context of the 'whats' and the 'whys'.

Glad to see I'm not the only one :-)

I'm still curious to see where it goes and look forward to watching last night's episode (probably tonight) but I'm with PSurprise, if someone gets killed off I'm not really going to care too much. I'll admit that I say this with a bit of disappointment.

[Wander]

Are fathers killing their daughters to cement their evilness now a trope? Stannis, Thanos, William...

I've enjoyed the season. But I hope this does not turn into an 8+ season show. Sort of seems like it can just be a trilogy.

I do wonder what Dolores' plan is. It feels like we should have a big twist in the last episode. Are there a bunch of robot versions of all the real humans waiting in the Forge?

[JasonEvans]

Are fathers killing their daughters to cement their evilness now a trope? Stannis, Thanos, William...

I've enjoyed the season. But I hope this does not turn into an 8+ season show. Sort of seems like it can just be a trilogy.

I do wonder what Dolores' plan is. It feels like we should have a big twist in the last episode. Are there a bunch of robot versions of all the real humans waiting in the Forge?

I wonder if it is significant that the tech never used that device to determine if William's daughter was human or host. Does the fact that he thought he was killing a host make him any less of a dark character?

Teddy killing himself was perfectly executed. I love the angst we have been seeing on his face the past several episodes leading up to this. He does not like what Delores made him into. The line about him seeing her in the lab and wondering if she was cold was magnificent writing -- so tender and genuine. Sure, he felt that way about her because he had been programmed to feel that way, but it still was a great little moment for the character. I think the message he was conveying there was that he loved her so much that he would die for her, but she did not truly love him because she chose to remake him into something ruthless and cruel. He would never want to remake her.

By the way, with the Cradle destroyed, Teddy should be gone for good now. Anyone who dies at this point cannot be revived because the Cradle was where the base program for all the hosts was stored. Without that, there is no way to recreate them... unless all the host programs are stored in Peter Abernathy (though I think that what is in his head is the guest data, the stuff that is also stored in the Forge).

I do agree that it does not feel like they have 8 seasons of this to give us. This season has been really good, but not nearly up to the standards of least year. I would like to see it as a 4 season thing. And there is no way we are going to get stuff even close to wrapped up in episode 10... I bet we will learn why the flood happened and what killed all those blank hosts but not much else. We probably catch the story up to the moment Bernard washed up on the beach and not much more than that. So, in essence, season two ends where it began.

-Jason "I'm still very much enjoying the ride, though one of my sons has started grumbling about it" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Yeah... ummm... I think that went off the rails a wee bit.

[JasonEvans]

Yeah... ummm... I think that went off the rails a wee bit.

I'll have much more later, but here are a few thoughts I have cobbled together for the moment.

• Teddy is in heaven... but Delores isn't there and Teddy's whole fiber is built around protecting Delores. So, Heaven kinda sucks for him. That said, I am sure Teddy is one of the host brains Delores brought with her to the real world. She will build a new Teddy to be revealed next season, I am sure. Though with Delores hell-bent on destroying humanity, I don't know how kind-hearted Teddy will react to again being her muscle.
  
  
• Why did Lee sacrifice himself for Maeve? I get that his character has evolved from the suit-wearing douche-bag we met last season and from the wimpy loser who was dragged by Maeve through the park earlier this season, but why did he commit suicide to buy Maeve and the other hosts a few minutes? It made no sense for his character or for anyone.Heck, I think he actually might have delayed the QA guards more if he had given up and they had to take the time to arrest him and put him in handcuffs or something like that.
  
  
• Maeve will 100% be back next season. Those two tech guys who were helping her were put in charge of figuring out which hosts could be salvaged. I am certain they will pick Maeve. Conveniently, I believe everyone who knew Maeve was a special host with the ability to telepathically control other hosts is now dead thanks to Delores/Charlotte's actions. As an aside, Maeve's ability to to telepathically control other hosts was largely awful... though when she froze everyone to give her daughter time to get through the door it was pretty cool.
  
  
• Where did Delores send all the host signals? She re-positioned the satellite linkup so she clearly sent them somewhere. Sounds like a season 3 plot point to me, though it is pretty clear that Aketchta and all the folks who followed him through the door want no part of Delores' battle with mankind. They just want to live in peace. Good luck with that...

[thedukelamere]

Back in high school and college, I was required to take a total 6 years of a foreign language in order to meet all of the necessary pre-reqs for graduation. I chose Spanish, but I just drifted through the motions in a class that kinda sorta requires commitment and complete immersion. I could fake my way through vocab tests and written exams through memorization, but I could not (and can not) speak the language for the life of me... Meaning the frequent presentations and speeches presented a problem. I overcame this dilemma but making a complete fool of myself; props, costumes, ridiculous dialogue, etc. The classes and the teachers looked forward to seeing what shenanigans I was going to cook up next, when in all actuality I was doing the bare minimum and speaking in sophomoric Spanish 101 vocabulary. 12 semesters, 10 A's and 2 B's, can't speak the language at all.

This is where my mind went after watching the finale last night... I've been willing myself into believing this show is prestige-level because of the mental gymnastics I've committed to it, but I'm slowly seeing that the writers might be just like I was in Spanish class; relying on obfuscation because they don't have a handle on the underlying story they are trying to tell. I mean, take out the strong performances from Ed, Jeffrey, Thandie, etc... What do you have left? Just the regurgitated "Team 1 sucks, Team 2 theoretically can be better, but in order to be better Team 2 has to be just as bad as Team 1 to wipe them out and allow Team 2 to reshape the world." Some great movies/shows/books have been created using that formula, and this show has a lot of the pieces to tell a really engaging story... If they get out of their own way and stop yanking us around for the sake of yanking us around. Fanboys would be pissed if they didn't have a puzzle to solve every episode, but I think the overall product would be better for it.

I'll still watch Season 3, but mostly because I have absolutely no idea what they are hoping to do other than turn it into a spy vs. spy thriller with Delores infiltrating/offing/replacing world leaders with Bernard trying to stop her? Maeve and Clem basically going Jedi vs. Sith with host Force powers? If Delores is planning on bringing virtual hosts into the real world for a revolution, is the show going to time-jump 200 years considering how long it would take her to create all of those bodies on the Arnold Table 1.0? Will they explain why the hell we've spent hours and hours of our lives watching William's character???

[Wander]

Ha, I liked it better than you guys. I appreciated that the season told a story with an ending, and I appreciated that they didn't repeat a timeline twist involving the flashforward actually being a flashback or flashsideways. I like that the 3 seasons of the show are all going to be very different from each other, and I'm intrigued to see what they do with Dolores in the real world. I still wonder if there are things about the real world that we don't know... maybe it is apocalyptic or something, which is why so many people are escaping into Westworld fantasies. The Charlotte-Dolores thing was cool.

Buttttttt.... the post-credits scene (is Westworld part of the MCU?) was stupid. It did nothing but create confusion, and I don't see why the creators felt the need to include another flashforward. The show also romanticizes the robots a bit too much. Read the interviews with the creators and you'll see this is intentional and not going away... it's like the show's creators have the same attitude as Ford. It'd be nice if we could have a human character who was both not-evil and competent (I guess Emily was sorta this, but she wasn't around for the finale). House of Cards had this problem in early seasons and eventually solved it.

[mkirsh]

I guess I have a different view - on it's own, I liked the last episode. I enjoyed the the payoff of the forge, some of the dialogue about the differences between guests and hosts, forcing Bernard to choose a side, and the Deloris/Charlotte twist (though I'm not entirely sure how Bernard made her that fast but just may have missed that as Bernard's time was not linear). My main issue is that the 8 episodes in between the season opener and finale seem somewhat useless, and the season could have been 2 or 3 episodes at most. Episodes 2-9 just seem to be people moving from place to place in different timelines and a lot of gore that didn't really advance the story or the characters. Maybe if I re-watched them the timeline jumping would make sense and I would appreciate the series more, but the episodes weren't interesting enough to merit a re-watch. Also, did anyone else get an "Inception" vibe from the whole thing, especially all the Bernard/Deloris interviews?

I loved season one, but didn't enjoy this one as much and am only lukewarm about a third season.

[thedukelamere]

Also, did anyone else get an "Inception" vibe from the whole thing, especially all the Bernard/Deloris interviews?

I could barely focus on what AI Logan was saying because I was thinking about Inception the whole time.