NBA Playoffs 2018

[Steven43]

Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving? All better than Pippen.

All better than Pippen?? Try NONE better than Pippen save maybe for Wade, who might be his equal. Might be. Scottie Pippen is regarded as one of the 50 greatest to ever play this game. Possibly near the top 25.

[vick]

All better than Pippen?? Try NONE better than Pippen save maybe for Wade, who might be his equal. Might be. Scottie Pippen is regarded as one of the 50 greatest to ever play this game. Possibly near the top 25.

Wade’s pre-2010 peak was plausibly—maybe even likely—better than Pippen, but other than that, 100% agreed. Even box score stats—which undervalue Pippen, who was a stellar defender—have a pretty large gap between Pippen’s best seasons and Bosh, Irving, and post-2010 Wade. Love is closer (but he was not a good defender).

It’s very easy to argue Jordan was a better player than James. It is not reasonable to argue he did not also have a much better second option as a teammate.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

This is the most offseasony offseason ever.

[elvis14]

All season long and going into the playoffs it was pretty much a given that this was another year where the West was stronger than the East. The 7-game Rockets/GSW series was more or less the NBA championship series. The Cavs vs. GSW was never going to be more than 4-5 games this year.

I would have liked to see Steph Curry win the MVP after scoring 37 points but KD put up a triple double playing really well for the second game in a row (after quite a few mediocre games).

Going to be an interesting off season. I hope LBJ stays in Cleveland. He's so good and it would be nice to see him stick with his home town team (that last move to Miami didn't exactly go over too well).

[subzero02]

Lol it's easy when Jordan was on the 2nd greatest team of all time (1st at the time). Swap those 2 around and the Bulls stay about the same but the Cavs get much worse.


Jordan- greatest scorer of all time
Magic- greatest passer of all time
LeBron- greatest basketball player of all time.

If you replace LeBron with Jordan in the 2011 finals, Jordan's team wins in 4 or 5 games as opposed to losing in 6. Jordan never had a teammate bail him out like Allen did in 2013, nor did he ever have a teammate perform as brilliantly as Kyrie did in the 2015 finals. If it weren't for 2 clutch 3 pointers from Allen and Kyrie, LeBron's finals record could easily be 1 and 8.

Also, there was nothing "easy" about Jordan's accomplishments in the finals. He faced some incredible teams in route to his 6 titles. The supersonics squad that he faced is one the most underrated teams ever. People forget how good Kemp and Payton were.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Going to be an interesting off season. I hope LBJ stays in Cleveland. He's so good and it would be nice to see him stick with his home town team (that last move to Miami didn't exactly go over too well).

It went well for LBJ … he was MVP twice and won two championships in Miami.

[Acymetric]

It went well for LBJ … he was MVP twice and won two championships in Miami.

Didn't go over well, as in he caught flack for it.

[ncexnyc]

Well this thread was certainly good for a laugh or two.
As has already been pointed out Pippen is on the NBA's Top 50 All-Time Players list. And there's that nasty little thing about Saint MJ's playoff record prior to Scrub Pippen's arrival.
I also found it funny that some have the notion that not once during the Bulls reign did another player step-up to save Saint MJ's bacon.


There's always a grain of truth to myths and legends and when it comes to Saint MJ that's pretty obvious. I think it was Chris Brousard who said it best a few weeks ago. In 20 or 30 years, time will have erased MJ's legacy and today's youth who will all be grown-ups will call Saint LeBron the GOAT, against some young stud.

[ice-9]

It’s so hard to compare across generations. I wonder what guys like Jordan and Isiah Thomas could’ve done with no hand checking allowed. I’m not a good basketball player but have always prided myself on defense. Being able to keep a hand on an offensive player makes a huge difference.

[dudog84]

If you replace LeBron with Jordan in the 2011 finals, Jordan's team wins in 4 or 5 games as opposed to losing in 6. Jordan never had a teammate bail him out like Allen did in 2013, nor did he ever have a teammate perform as brilliantly as Kyrie did in the 2015 finals. If it weren't for 2 clutch 3 pointers from Allen and Kyrie, LeBron's finals record could easily be 1 and 8.

Also, there was nothing "easy" about Jordan's accomplishments in the finals. He faced some incredible teams in route to his 6 titles. The supersonics squad that he faced is one the most underrated teams ever. People forget how good Kemp and Payton were.

That is so incredibly speculative as to defy description. But I guess that is what the internet is for.

[lotusland]

A guy who hops around from team to team looking for greener pastures and serves effectively as the GM doesn’t get a lot of slack for not having good teammates.

[Papa John]

REGULAR SEASON
Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
Bill Russell 94 57 37 5.9 2.4 4.5 .542 22.9 14.2
Wilt Chamberlain 94 37 57 12.0 5.9 12.0 .493 28.2 29.9
Data courtesy Basketball-Reference.com.

POSTSEASON
Player G W L GS MP FG FGA FG% FT FTA FT% TRB AST PF PTS
Bill Russell 49 29 20 5.9 14.0 .417 3.2 5.2 .609 24.7 4.9 3.9 14.9
Wilt Chamberlain 49 20 29 10.0 19.6 .508 5.8 11.7 .494 28.0 4.1 2.4 25.7
Data courtesy Basketball-Reference.com.

Sorry for formatting. Regular season(94 games): Russell 23 boards, 14 points, Chamberlain, 28 rebounds, 30 points. Post season (49 matchups): Russell, 25 and 15, Chamberlain, 28 and 26.

Chamberlain led the league in assists one year, was scoring leader seven times.

I'm glad that these aren't your "personal thoughts," because you'd just be wrong. Wilt dominated Russell.

While I understand that we love to measure individual stats and use them to compare players, what I still don't understand is how easily folks brush aside the 11-2 stat. Russell won 11 NBA championships in 13 years (and he was injured in one of the 2 postseasons that Boston failed to win the championship while he played for them), while Wilt won 2. Russell also won back-to-back NCAA championships and an Olympic gold medal prior to arriving at Boston, plus he won back-to-back high school championships in California prior to attending San Fran.

He's arguably the greatest defensive player in the history of the game (and we at Duke used to pride ourselves on defense and intangibles, and the fact that these are often the most difficult aspects of the game to statistically measure), one of the greatest rebounders, and a solid scorer to boot.

If I were picking a fantasy team, I'd start with Russell for one simple reason: all his teams ever did during his career was win championships [and it's certainly not a Forrest Gump/Zelig-like coincidence that Russell was on those championship teams—he was the heart and soul of each and every one of those teams].

As for LBJ... He's an outstanding player, but I still don't get the fawning all over a guy who has been able to orchestrate the creation of multiple 'super teams' who is only 3-6 in the finals...

[HereBeforeCoachK]

While I understand that we love to measure individual stats and use them to compare players, what I still don't understand is how easily folks brush aside the 11-2 stat. Russell won 11 NBA championships in 13 years (and he was injured in one of the 2 postseasons that Boston failed to win the championship while he played for them), while Wilt won 2. Russell also won back-to-back NCAA championships and an Olympic gold medal prior to arriving at Boston, plus he won back-to-back high school championships in California prior to attending San Fran.

He's arguably the greatest defensive player in the history of the game (and we at Duke used to pride ourselves on defense and intangibles, and the fact that these are often the most difficult aspects of the game to statistically measure), one of the greatest rebounders, and a solid scorer to boot.

If I were picking a fantasy team, I'd start with Russell for one simple reason: all his teams ever did during his career was win championships [and it's certainly not a Forrest Gump/Zelig-like coincidence that Russell was on those championship teams—he was the heart and soul of each and every one of those teams].

As for LBJ... He's an outstanding player, but I still don't get the fawning all over a guy who has been able to orchestrate the creation of multiple 'super teams' who is only 3-6 in the finals...

By your championship logic, Dan Marino should not even be in the conversation of great quarterbacks, thus putting him behind Brad Johnson, Mark Rypien and Trent Dilfer.

It's VERY misleading to judge individual players on championships in a team sport.

[sagegrouse]

As for LBJ... He's an outstanding player, but I still don't get the fawning all over a guy who has been able to orchestrate the creation of multiple 'super teams' who is only 3-6 in the finals...

OK about Russell, but you said LeBron "is only 3-6 in the finals..." Holy moly! Let's deconstruct that. First, he has led his team to NINE finals. Who else has been to nine finals (probably a few other than Celtics, but I don't know)? Moreover, when the Celtics won in 1966, there were only NINE teams in the entire league, while today there are 30.

Second, LeBron has won three championships -- THREE. What other all-time greats won the same or fewer? West (1-8) and Robertson (1-1) won one each. Larry Bird won three.

[kshepinthehouse]

OK about Russell, but you said LeBron "is only 3-6 in the finals..." Holy moly! Let's deconstruct that. First, he has led his team to NINE finals. Who else has been to nine finals (probably a few other than Celtics, but I don't know)? Moreover, when the Celtics won in 1966, there were only NINE teams in the entire league, while today there are 30.

Second, LeBron has won three championships -- THREE. What other all-time greats won the same or fewer? West (1-8) and Robertson (1-1) won one each. Larry Bird won three.

How many finals would he have led his team to had he played in the West? 3 or less?

[sagegrouse]

How many finals would he have led his team to had he played in the West? 3 or less?

Are you joining Papa John in putting down a record of nine finals and three championships? Or, are you just nitpicking for the hell of it? Just asking.

[kshepinthehouse]

Are you joining Papa John in putting down a record of nine finals and three championships? Or, are you just nitpicking for the hell of it? Just asking.

His nine finals appearances are largely aided by playing his career in a very weak Eastern conference (that is improving). Had he played in the West, I don’t think he touches 9 finals appearances. Would you agree?

In now way, shape, or form am I trying to suggest he isn’t a great player. But there may be something that other great players (Jordan) had that he doesn’t.

[dudog84]

His nine finals appearances are largely aided by playing his career in a very weak Eastern conference (that is improving). Had he played in the West, I don’t think he touches 9 finals appearances. Would you agree?

In now way, shape, or form am I trying to suggest he isn’t a great player. But there may be something that other great players (Jordan) had that he doesn’t.

You don't know who he would be paired with. Maybe he goes to Golden State instead of Durant. Or to San Antonio. Or Oklahoma City. Heck, even the Clippers when they had Paul and Griffin.

These unknowable postulations are ridiculous and annoying.

[vick]

I am always astonished that the regular season seems to count for literally nothing in so many fans' estimations of career value (as an aside, Russell also won 5 MVPs to Wilt's 4, so it's hardly as if rings-counting is the only point one can make in his favor in that debate).

[rsvman]

LeBron is really good, and that seems to stick in the craw of a lot of people, for no apparent reason that I can discern.