2018 McDonald's All American Game (Wed 3/28, 7pm ET, ESPN) Pre and In-Game

[Troublemaker]

Rosters (pdf)

RJ Barrett and Zion Williamson will be on the East squad. (Duke recruit EJ Montgomery will also be on the East).

Tre Jones and Cameron Reddish will be on the West squad.

As the thread title states, the game itself will be this Wednesday on ESPN at 7pm ET.

[Troublemaker]

The 3-pt shooting and dunk competitions are TONIGHT at 8pm ET on ESPN2

List of participants (pdf)

Cam Reddish is in the 3-pt contest

Zion Williamson is in the dunk contest

And Tre Jones is competing with two teammates (non-Dukies) in something called the Legends and Stars shootout. (I believe they take turns making a layup, a free throw, a three, and a halfcourt heave).

[BD80]

The 3-pt shooting and dunk competitions are TONIGHT at 8pm ET on ESPN2

List of participants (pdf)

Cam Reddish is in the 3-pt contest

Zion Williamson is in the dunk contest

And Tre Jones is competing with two teammates (non-Dukies) in something called the Legends and Stars shootout. (I believe they take turns making a layup, a free throw, a three, and a halfcourt heave).

Is it fair to call it a "contest" if Zion is dunking?

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Rosters (pdf)

RJ Barrett and Zion Williamson will be on the East squad. (Duke recruit EJ Montgomery will also be on the East).

Tre Jones and Cameron Reddish will be on the West squad.

As the thread title states, the game itself will be this Wednesday on ESPN at 7pm ET.

Maybe my geography is rusty but when did Philly move west of Toronto?

[JasonEvans]

I'm going to be attending some practices and media events for the McD game this week... here's a pic of Reddish with the reverse layup from one of the practices.

McDAAG_2018-team play 3.jpg

-Jason "thanks to McDonald's for the pic and for the access... more info in coming days" Evans

[CDu]

Maybe my geography is rusty but when did Philly move west of Toronto?

For competitive balance reasons, they've long since discarded the true East/West splits for this thing. They still generally keep the Western guys on the West team, but there are usually more Eastern players on the teams than Western guys, so they split them up a bit more to balance out the top-end guys.

[Owen Meany]

Evan Daniels tweet says Williamson has lost 20 pounds. Perhaps this will make him a little more explosive.

[CDu]

Evan Daniels tweet says Williamson has lost 20 pounds. Perhaps this will make him a little more explosive.

Can't hurt. He was undoubtedly carrying 20-30 lbs or more of "not good" weight. 6'6", 240-250 is probably better than 6'6", 270. He's still plenty strong to bang inside, but that lighter weight will give him even more explosiveness.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Can't hurt. He was undoubtedly carrying 20-30 lbs or more of "not good" weight. 6'6", 240-250 is probably better than 6'6", 270. He's still plenty strong to bang inside, but that lighter weight will give him even more explosiveness.

Which is crazy to think about, because Zion at 270 was incredibly explosive.

Zion will be a nightmare to contain, but he's the biggest enigma for me as far as next year is concerned. I have no idea about his defensive capabilities, his decision-making/shot selection, and his mid-range/3-pt shot.

I know what we're getting with Reddish and Barrett and I think I know what we're getting from Jones. But with Zion, it could be really, really good or really, really frustrating.

[UrinalCake]

Zion will be a nightmare to contain, but he's the biggest enigma for me as far as next year is concerned.

Agree. Not only does he have usual size and athleticism, but he plays in an absolutely terrible high school league. I can't get excited watching youtube videos of him dunking over guys who are literally under 6 feet tall. That tells me nothing about his ability to play at the college level. Can he play the 5, or would he be better at the 4? And if he's a 4, can he defend on the perimeter?

Looking forward to seeing how he does on the summer All-Star circuit. Still not a great measure since they're basically pickup games of one-on-one, but at least the level of competition will be better.

[CDu]

Which is crazy to think about, because Zion at 270 was incredibly explosive.

Yes. He's an absolute freak of nature. In that regard, Charles Barkley is the closest comp I can think of. But in terms of playing above the rim, he might actually be closer to LeBron (he's only an inch shorter than LeBron, whereas Chuck was 2-3 inches shorter than Zion). It's really hard to describe how explosive he is, and his combination of size and explosiveness is basically unprecedented.

But...

Zion will be a nightmare to contain, but he's the biggest enigma for me as far as next year is concerned. I have no idea about his defensive capabilities, his decision-making/shot selection, and his mid-range/3-pt shot.

I think it is safe to assume he isn't going to be much of a shooter at all. He gets pretty much all of his points inside of 10 feet, and his shot doesn't look very good anyway. He's a capable open-court ballhandler, and not awful with the ball in the halfcourt. I'd love to watch him post people up and drag bigs out and take them baseline. But I don't expect him to be much of a passer, and I don't expect him to do a ton of ballhandling next year.

He's a definite unknown on defense (his HS team played mostly zone, and a very passive zone at that), and he's always been a ball-dominant guy. That said, he's also never played with as much talent as he will have around him next year. And with his nose for the glass, I'd salivate at the possibility of him hunting down offensive rebounds and putbacks while teams are focused on defending Reddish and Barrett.

He's sort of, if you squint, a little like Marvin Bagley. Obviously not similar in physical stature or specific athletic traits. But in terms of being more of a dominant rebounder/scorer than a pure basketball skill player, that's kind of what I envision from him. Whereas Bagley played over players and used his height and second-jump skills, I think Williamson will rely on his obscene strength/power and leaping ability to produce. Both are good handlers for a big, but not guys you want dribbling a ton in traffic. On the same token, by virtue of being such dominant offensive presences, there are going to be real concerns about if/when he learns the amount of effort needed on defense. And of course whether he has the quickness to defend smaller players on switches, which will have big implications on the defense.

I know what we're getting with Reddish and Barrett and I think I know what we're getting from Jones. But with Zion, it could be really, really good or really, really frustrating.

I think there are real questions about all 4 freshmen. We've already discussed Williamson, but Barrett and Reddish have their questions too.

Barrett: will he shoot well enough to fully maximize his talent, or will teams just pack it in defensively and let him take and miss long jumpers? His jumpshot is very much a work in progress at this stage. I have the fewest concerns about defense with him of any of the four. He's uber-intense, and his size and athleticism suggest he should do well there. And I have no doubt he can score in traffic and in transition. I suspect he'll draw a lot of fouls too. But he's a bit loose with the ball and not a consistent shooter. So whether he's just really good or transcendent will depend a lot on how well he can shoot it.

I do think he'll thrive off-ball too with Jones and with a talented wing like Reddish next to him.

Reddish: Reminds me in some ways of Grant Hill and Jayson Tatum. Long and athletic and with a variety of skills. He can do most everything on the court, the key for him is doing the right thing consistently. He's not a great shooter yet, and too easily settles for long jumpers. And he doesn't always seem to play in the flow of the game, and can be a ballstopper. Again, he's got all the tools. It's just a matter of figuring out how to use them to their fullest. And it isn't like he plays poorly now - just not always as efficiently as he could given his talent.

Jones: If the game was as simple as knowing what to do, Jones would be one of the best. He's got a great feel for the game. But, not unlike his brother, there are questions about the athleticism. He also has questions about his shooting, which is a concern given his lack of elite athleticism.

[proelitedota]

Evan Daniels tweet says Williamson has lost 20 pounds. Perhaps this will make him a little more explosive.

Imo his optimal playing weight in college is 230-240.

Best case scenario is if he grows an inch before he arrives on campus, and another inch before he leaves school.

6'8 240 we might start him at the 5!

[CDu]

Imo his optimal playing weight in college is 230-240.

Best case scenario is if he grows an inch before he arrives on campus, and another inch before he leaves school.

6'8 240 we might start him at the 5!

I think he's more like 6'6" or 6'7", but I agree that 230-240 feels like a much better weight for him to play at.

I think he'll play a fair amount at the 5 next year. I hope that he'll be the starter at the 4 though, and that is because I hope Bolden returns and starts at the 5.

[DukeWarhead]

In the past, I was probably far more interested in the McD game than I should have been. I'd watch and get all over-excited about the incoming freshmen. The past few years have really tampered expectations for players that might only be at Duke for a year. That's probably a good thing. I don't even tune in anymore. It's an AAU game. I suppose that's a very pessimistic way to look at it, but the ending of the last two seasons and seeing the impact of inexperienced teams has me feeling pessimistic. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad recruiting has been going great - it guarantees we won't suffer a 'bad' season. But I suppose I'm buying all talk about never having a cohesive, experienced team again.

[CDu]

In the past, I was probably far more interested in the McD game than I should have been. I'd watch and get all over-excited about the incoming freshmen. The past few years have really tampered expectations for players that might only be at Duke for a year. That's probably a good thing. I don't even tune in anymore. It's an AAU game. I suppose that's a very pessimistic way to look at it, but the ending of the last two seasons and seeing the impact of inexperienced teams has me feeling pessimistic. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad recruiting has been going great - it guarantees we won't suffer a 'bad' season. But I suppose I'm buying all talk about never having a cohesive, experienced team again.

Yeah, I think it can still be mildly entertaining to watch. And you can learn a LITTLE bit about the guys, at least in terms of their physical presence and offensive skills.

But I've definitely stopped getting overly excited about the play of our players in the game. It's not even an AAU quality of play. At least those guys have familiarity playing together. It's a collection of guys playing iso ball, with a few alley-oops mixed in. The only defense played is guys selling out for steal attempts or blocked shots. And about 70% of the game is in transition. It's just not really organized, disciplined basketball. Just 10 guys each running around trying to throw haymakers each play.

It really caters to the ball-dominant, uber-skilled and/or uber-athletic guards. Last year, Collin Sexton dominated the event. He was a highlight reel all night. And he was certainly a good player this year, but I would not say he was even among the top 5 freshmen in college basketball, and that's without one of the three best freshmen playing (Porter got hurt early). Conversely, Carter was a very quiet player in that game, but he was definitely one of the top freshmen in college this year. But Carter's game doesn't really translate to all-star games, whereas Sexton's does.

[dukelifer]

Yeah, I think it can still be mildly entertaining to watch. And you can learn a LITTLE bit about the guys, at least in terms of their physical presence and offensive skills.

But I've definitely stopped getting overly excited about the play of our players in the game. It's not even an AAU quality of play. At least those guys have familiarity playing together. It's a collection of guys playing iso ball, with a few alley-oops mixed in. The only defense played is guys selling out for steal attempts or blocked shots. And about 70% of the game is in transition. It's just not really organized, disciplined basketball. Just 10 guys each running around trying to throw haymakers each play.

It really caters to the ball-dominant, uber-skilled and/or uber-athletic guards. Last year, Collin Sexton dominated the event. He was a highlight reel all night. And he was certainly a good player this year, but I would not say he was even among the top 5 freshmen in college basketball, and that's without one of the three best freshmen playing (Porter got hurt early). Conversely, Carter was a very quiet player in that game, but he was definitely one of the top freshmen in college this year. But Carter's game doesn't really translate to all-star games, whereas Sexton's does.

The Nike game is a better indicator of skills in my opinion.

[Troublemaker]

But I suppose I'm buying all talk about never having a cohesive, experienced team again.

You think Coach K is going to live and/or coach forever?

As I've written before, OAD detractors should take comfort in knowing that it's impossible for recruiting to keep at this level much longer. Plus, the NBA might modify the rule at some point. OAD is such a temporary little era in Duke basketball history; either take it for what it is and try to enjoy it, or just come back when it's over (which, again, won't be much longer).

Yeah, I think it can still be mildly entertaining to watch. And you can learn a LITTLE bit about the guys, at least in terms of their physical presence and offensive skills.

But I've definitely stopped getting overly excited about the play of our players in the game. It's not even an AAU quality of play. At least those guys have familiarity playing together. It's a collection of guys playing iso ball, with a few alley-oops mixed in. The only defense played is guys selling out for steal attempts or blocked shots. And about 70% of the game is in transition. It's just not really organized, disciplined basketball. Just 10 guys each running around trying to throw haymakers each play.

It really caters to the ball-dominant, uber-skilled and/or uber-athletic guards. Last year, Collin Sexton dominated the event. He was a highlight reel all night. And he was certainly a good player this year, but I would not say he was even among the top 5 freshmen in college basketball, and that's without one of the three best freshmen playing (Porter got hurt early). Conversely, Carter was a very quiet player in that game, but he was definitely one of the top freshmen in college this year. But Carter's game doesn't really translate to all-star games, whereas Sexton's does.

Right, for many fans, this game is their first opportunity to get a look at these recruits, so it IS exciting from that perspective, but I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the game. Interestingly, though, the 4 Duke commits/signees should all excel in the game because they're all ball-handlers. As you allude to, it's really the big men and off-ball shooters that sometimes (there are exceptions) have trouble shining in this setting.

As for Sexton, if he's not a top-5 freshman, he's pretty darn close. I have lots of love for his game.

[CDu]

As for Sexton, if he's not a top-5 freshman, he's pretty darn close. I have lots of love for his game.

Bagley, Ayton, Carter, Young, Bamba, Jackson Jr, Knox. I'd put Sexton about 8th. Definitely not a bad player, but behind those other guys in my opinion. But definitely more of a showcase player than a win/loss player. I don't mean that negatively about him as a person. Just that he is a PG gunner who doesn't pass well or make his teammates better. He's a really talented kid, but is still very much learning how to play the game.

[Ian]

You think Coach K is going to live and/or coach forever?

As I've written before, OAD detractors should take comfort in knowing that it's impossible for recruiting to keep at this level much longer. Plus, the NBA might modify the rule at some point. OAD is such a temporary little era in Duke basketball history; either take it for what it is and try to enjoy it, or just come back when it's over (which, again, won't be much longer).

Why are you so set on shutting down all discussions on this subject. I find it interesting that the best you can come up with is that "it won't last forever so why bother talking about it". If we applied that to other subject we would literally not talk about anything on this board. Want to talk about Javins' jumpshot needs improving? Why bother, in two years he's outta here anyway. Don't like how Coach K coached at the end of the game? It's okay he's retiring soon and you won't have to worry about his coaching moves, so shut up about it.

People want to talk about it because it's here NOW and it affects the team NOW. If it's a good thing, we should try to keep it going as long as possible, even post K. And if it's not, we should try something different it even if he's here.

[Troublemaker]

Why are you so set on shutting down all discussions on this subject.

lol, if I could "shut down discussion," I would. But I obviously can't since the OAD debate will continue to rage on.

I'm an OAD detractor detractor, and I deserve my say as much as an OAD detractor.

I find it interesting that the best you can come up with is that

No, actually, I've written extensively about OAD over the years and brought tremendous arguments. I'll probably rehash over the offseason at some point but don't feel like it now. I bring lots to the table on many, many subjects on DBR, not just OAD. I'm not a one-trick pony repetitively ranting about one subject.