Page 15 of 21 FirstFirst ... 51314151617 ... LastLast
Results 281 to 300 of 405

Thread: Quinn-sanity!

  1. #281
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    A lot of this is not based on empirical evidence. But I have to believe a college senior playing in the Final Four internalizes the importance of those games at a level approaching glass-completely-full.

    I also suspect that these same players don't care all that much how many people are watching on TV on the other side of the pond.

    Againm, no peer-reviewed studies.
    You can't criticize other posts for lacking empirical evidence and then immediately say stuff like "But I have to believe . . ." and "I also suspect . . ." Right?

    Remember, we're comparing the Final Four to game 5 of a 2-2 series in the Western Conference Finals of the NBA playoffs. Both are huge, huge games. I honestly don't remember Quinn taking any last second shots in the Final Four to decide the outcome of a game, but maybe my memory is fuzzy. But that's why I said it would have been the biggest shot of his life. If someone can think of a bigger shot that he took in the Final Four, please enlighten me.

    Anyway, nobody seems to be convincing anyone to move their position on this, so let's just all go drink some beer and have a great holiday weekend

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    I think attributing missing an open shot to stage fright is a pretty big leap.

    YMMV.
    I agree completely. This sums up how ridiculous the claim was although it was compounded by a ridiculous claim that a shot In the second quarter of a game which was the 5th of a division championship was bigger than shots in the final game of the NCAA.

  3. #283
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    You can't criticize other posts for lacking empirical evidence and then immediately say stuff like "But I have to believe . . ." and "I also suspect . . ."

    Right? Remember, we're comparing the Final Four to game 5 of a 2-2 series in the Western Conference Finals of the NBA playoffs. Both are huge, huge games.

    Anyway, nobody seems to be convincing anyone to move their position on this, so let's just all go drink some beer and have a great holiday weekend
    You're saying "the stage is too big for him, sorry" but then you say it's irrelevant how he perceived the stage, we should consider only the cold facts about number of TV viewers. That is inconsistent logic.

  4. #284
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by AtlDuke72 View Post
    I agree completely. This sums up how ridiculous the claim was although it was compounded by a ridiculous claim that a shot In the second quarter of a game which was the 5th of a division championship was bigger than shots in the final game of the NCAA.
    What shot are you talking about? Did you watch the game? We're all talking about the shot at the end of the 4th quarter. Please let me know if you find video evidence of Quinn taking a bigger shot than that in the Final Four.

    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    You're saying "the stage is too big for him, sorry" but then you say it's irrelevant how he perceived the stage, we should consider only the cold facts about number of TV viewers. That is inconsistent logic.
    No, I said we don't know how he perceives the stage. The TV viewers debate was a separate argument. But there were more than a few times in the Warriors/Rockets game where it was very apparently how nervous Quinn was. Quinn's 1 assist on a Draymond Green 3 was a pass where he passed up a wide open shot. He passed the ball immediately, without even thinking about shooting it. And again, he bobbled a pretty easy pass on the final shot.

    This isn't some sort wild theory that I came up with, either. Many much smarter basketball analyst than me have been saying the exact same thing, without much debate. Listen to Zach Lowe or Bill Simmons' latest podcasts. There's no debate at all between them or their podcasts guests that they felt the moment was too big for Quinn. But to be clear, nobody thought he shouldn't have taken the shot. It was a wide open shot. You take that shot every time. It just sucks that it didn't go in.

  5. #285
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    What shot are you talking about? Did you watch the game? We're all talking about the shot at the end of the 4th quarter. Please let me know if you find video evidence of Quinn taking a bigger shot than that in the Final Four.



    No, I said we don't know how he perceives the stage. The TV viewers debate was a separate argument. But there were more than a few times in the Warriors/Rockets game where it was very apparently how nervous Quinn was. Quinn's 1 assist on a Draymond Green 3 was a pass where he passed up a wide open shot. He passed the ball immediately, without even thinking about shooting it. And again, he bobbled a pretty easy pass on the final shot.

    This isn't some sort wild theory that I came up with, either. Many much smarter basketball analyst than me have been saying the exact same thing, without much debate. Listen to Zach Lowe or Bill Simmons' latest podcasts. There's no debate at all between them or their podcasts guests that they felt the moment was too big for Quinn.
    Ah, well if Bill Simmons believes it, then case closed.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    That 39 million is just between 2 countries though. What about the other 213 countries? The NCAA tournament just doesn't have that sort of global reach. And the disparity is only going to get bigger as the NBA becomes more global.
    The stage is defined by this country....because those are the only fans the players at either level care about.

  7. #287
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    Ah, well if Bill Simmons believes it, then case closed.
    I'm sorry that you're not able to view this from an objective standpoint, when the large majority of people who watched the game agree with me.

  8. #288
    I think the reason people think it was nerves bc he dropped the pass before the shot

  9. #289
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    I'm sorry that you're not able to view this from an objective standpoint, when the large majority of people who watched the game agree with me.
    How many of the Chinese viewers did you survey?

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Wow, you need to calm down. I'm not talking about the impact of the stage on a player's psyche. That has nothing to do with the actual size of the stage.
    Sorry, the players psyche is the ONLY place where the stage could be too big. That is 100% of your point....the stage was too big FOR QUINN...that means in Quinn's mind. You cannot separate those out, period.

  11. #291
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    You can't criticize other posts for lacking empirical evidence and then immediately say stuff like "But I have to believe . . ." and "I also suspect . . ." Right?

    Remember, we're comparing the Final Four to game 5 of a 2-2 series in the Western Conference Finals of the NBA playoffs. Both are huge, huge games. I honestly don't remember Quinn taking any last second shots in the Final Four to decide the outcome of a game, but maybe my memory is fuzzy. But that's why I said it would have been the biggest shot of his life. If someone can think of a bigger shot that he took in the Final Four, please enlighten me.

    Anyway, nobody seems to be convincing anyone to move their position on this, so let's just all go drink some beer and have a great holiday weekend
    Say what?

    I didn't criticize anyone's posts for lacking empirical evidence. I stated that my opinion following lacked empirical evidence.

    Gee willikers, Louise.

  12. #292
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeforeCoachK View Post
    Sorry, the players psyche is the ONLY place where the stage could be too big. That is 100% of your point...the stage was too big FOR QUINN...that means in Quinn's mind. You cannot separate those out, period.
    Fine, I take back anything I said to contradict that. Find me a bigger shot that he took and made in the Final Four, then you have my attention. You guys keep saying the FF was a bigger stage, so find me this magical shot that he took that proves he's made a bigger shot than the game 5 shot. It's gotta be in a final seconds of regulation or overtime and either decided or helped decide the outcome of the game to qualify as bigger than the shot he took in game 5.

    I never said Quinn hasn't hit big shots in his career. Only that the game 5 shot would have been the biggest.
    Last edited by kAzE; 05-25-2018 at 09:13 PM.

  13. #293
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Fine, I take back anything I said to contradict that. Find me a bigger shot that he took and made in the Final Four, then you have my attention. You guys keep saying the FF was a bigger stage, so find me this magical shot that he took that proves he's made shots on the biggest stage. It's gotta be in a final seconds of regulation or overtime to qualify as bigger than the shot he took in game 5.
    Inasmuch as Duke didn't have any NCAAT games that season that went down to the buzzer, I believe we have a bit of a straw man here.

    I believe you may be misrepresenting some positions. Theory: everything else being equal, the Final Four in the aggregate means as much to a college player as the NBA semifinals in the aggregate mean to an NBA player and has comparable pressure on either.

  14. #294
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Fine, I take back anything I said to contradict that. Find me a bigger shot that he took and made in the Final Four, then you have my attention. You guys keep saying the FF was a bigger stage, so find me this magical shot that he took that proves he's made a bigger shot than the game 5 shot. It's gotta be in a final seconds of regulation or overtime and either decided or helped decide the outcome of the game to qualify as bigger than the shot he took in game 5.
    The counter to that is “find me the proof that he has stage fright in the biggest stages.” One can’t even truly define what the biggest stage is for him, let alone prove that he had stage fright on that stage.

  15. #295
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    The counter to that is “find me the proof that he has stage fright in the biggest stages.” One can’t even truly define what the biggest stage is for him, let alone prove that he had stage fright on that stage.
    Maybe stage fright wasn't the right way to put it. He was nervous, though, and clearly didn't shoot with confidence. The only thing I'm going to continue defending is my very first post in this thread: that the shot he took in game 5 would have been the biggest shot of his life. So prove me wrong.

  16. #296
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Maybe stage fright wasn't the right way to put it. He was nervous, though, and clearly didn't shoot with confidence. The only thing I'm going to continue defending is my very first post in this thread: that the shot he took in game 5 would have been the biggest shot of his life. So prove me wrong.
    It would have been the biggest make of his life.

    Why would anyone want to prove you wrong?

    The issue is the suggestion that he missed it because he had stage fright.

    I've told this story before.

    But . . .

    K post-game press conference a few years ago.

    He was asked a question about young players and confidence and such matters of state.

    His answer was "sometimes young players miss a shot and think it's a mistake.

    It's not a mistake. It's just a missed shot."

    So, maybe this wasn't a choke. Maybe it was just a missed shot.

  17. #297
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    It would have been the biggest make of his life.
    And we are done. Thank you.

  18. #298
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    And we are done. Thank you.
    Umm, okay? So nothing about the stage fright (which is the part that folks actually disagreed with primarily in your statement)? He missed the biggest single shot he has taken. If that was all you said originally, this whole discussion would have been a lot shorter and more pleasant for everyone.

  19. #299
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Umm, okay? So nothing about the stage fright (which is the part that folks actually disagreed with primarily in your statement)? He missed the biggest single shot he has taken. If that was all you said originally, this whole discussion would have been a lot shorter and more pleasant for everyone.
    Well, disregarding that I said 2 posts ago that stage fright was perhaps not the right words for it. My original post only said he "apparently has stage fright in the biggest games." Not evidently. Apparently. There's a difference. Perhaps to the non-homer eye, it may have seemed that way.

  20. #300
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Well, disregarding that I said 2 posts ago that stage fright was perhaps not the right words for it. My original post only said he "apparently has stage fright in the biggest games." Not evidently. Apparently. There's a difference. Perhaps to the non-homer eye, it may have seemed that way.
    Here we go again. Anyone who disagrees with you is a homer. Anyone who points out flaws in your logic is unable to view the situation objectively.

Similar Threads

  1. Quinn Cook
    By Channing in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 03-19-2014, 12:25 PM
  2. Respect for Quinn
    By mattman91 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 10-25-2013, 03:34 PM
  3. Quinn Cook: Top 10 PG?
    By DavidBenAkiva in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 01-09-2013, 01:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •