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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    I'm not sure how much longer Exiled has been married than I have. Merry I'll definitely defer to.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Orleans
    Quote Originally Posted by Clipsfan View Post
    No one has mentioned this, but tipping is an AMERICAN habit.
    Exactly. Consistent with the custom of American corporations to squeeze out every last dollar of profit they can, usually by squeezing labor. In most other countries, employees would be embarrassed to work behind a tip jar. It's a point of pride with them that they put in an honest day's work, and expect to get paid a living wage -- by their employer.

    One consequence: You don't find yourself getting hustled out of a restaurant as soon as you're finished eating, so the next customer/employer can be seated. In most of Europe, you have to flag the servers down just to get your bill. The business model of paying employees a decent wage seems to work for restaurants in other countries. Don't know why it wouldn't here.

  3. #43
    Ask those servers who provide excellent service which system they would prefer?

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Orleans
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    Ask those servers who provide excellent service which system they would prefer?
    How much any of the servers make is subject every day to how much business the establishment brings in, and the whims of their customers. Personally, I'd rather go to work each day knowing I was going to be making a living wage. But a "flexible" labor force is now the American way.

  5. #45
    Having known a few good servers(including my sister) many are making much more than a living wage...and yes, we are a risk based society. That is why there is the reward of a very good tip.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Orleans
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    Having known a few good servers(including my sister) many are making much more than a living wage...and yes, we are a risk based society. That is why there is the reward of a very good tip.
    OK, so you're fine with a business practice that allows employers to pass off a substantial portion of their labor costs to customers, and lets them force employees to bear more of the risk of diminished traffic. But to return to the sub-thread, what about employees who do nothing more than sit behind a tip jar, taking your money and giving you the product? Does the same rationale allow employers to pay them less, on the assumption that customers will make up the difference with tips? It's rather hard for these employees to distinguish themselves by their "excellent" service. It's not a reward for good service, it's a surcharge the customer is subtly compelled to pay.

    This is really the crux of the matter -- to what degree are merchants going to succeed in passing along their labor costs by making customers think of employees as their responsibility? They'll certainly push it as far as they can.

  7. #47
    I always found Bill Maher's take on it amusing (paraphrase):

    "If you're standing behind a counter you're not waiting on me, I'm waiting on you."

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by dkbaseball View Post
    But to return to the sub-thread, what about employees who do nothing more than sit behind a tip jar, taking your money and giving you the product? Does the same rationale allow employers to pay them less, on the assumption that customers will make up the difference with tips? It's rather hard for these employees to distinguish themselves by their "excellent" service. It's not a reward for good service, it's a surcharge the customer is subtly compelled to pay.

    This is really the crux of the matter -- to what degree are merchants going to succeed in passing along their labor costs by making customers think of employees as their responsibility? They'll certainly push it as far as they can.
    Yes, but in this case the charge is more direct and gives the person being compensated fairly good feedback on how they are doing in the eyes of the patron. In most products, the cost of labor is included(I certainly don't work for free)and are non-negotiable. Here, you get to negotiate. From my vantage point, your statement doesn't make sense. All costs are ultimately borne by the consumer. Ultimately, that is who is paying.

    To go back to your earlier question, in most cases, I will now observe what the people are doing and compensate them how I see fit. I am not compelled to do anything. You don't ever have to put money in the tip jar or for that matter tip the server. I just wouldn't plan on being a repeat customer.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkbaseball View Post
    OK, so you're fine with a business practice that allows employers to pass off a substantial portion of their labor costs to customers, and lets them force employees to bear more of the risk of diminished traffic.
    Yes, because they also garner the benefits of increased traffic. I don't know of any risk that is only one sided.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by billybreen View Post
    Service industry jobs are based on the expectation of a tip. They are payed below normal in the expectation that a standard tip will compensate them normally and anything beyond is a bonus. That's not getting paid extra just for doing your job.
    Point 1: And I'll tip them if they do their job. If they don't, they're getting exactly a penny, just to let them know I didn't "forget" about the tip. Just as an employer wouldn't pay an employee for work they didn't do, I won't tip someone for service they didn't provide, ie, poor service.

    Point 2: I've been burned too many times by Outback/Applebee's take-out services that, at certain and specific restaurants, I won't tip for this service. The problem is that you don't usually find out if your order is completely correct until after you've paid the tip. If their service ever improves, I'll revisit my tipping habits for that particular establishment.

    Point 3: Pet peeve of mine is when people don't tip when their food isn't cooked correctly. Understand, people, that the SERVER is not responsible for doing the COOK's job right. Holding the SERVER responsible for improper COOKING of food is stupid and selfish. If you feel you should be compensated for the improper cooking of your food, take it up with the MANAGER.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Orleans
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    All costs are ultimately borne by the consumer. Ultimately, that is who is paying.
    Well, that is where something called the free market comes in handy. There are limits on the degree to which restaurant owners can pass along their labor costs to customers. If their prices go too high, people can eat someplace else. Someplace where the need to squeeze out profit isn't so great.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Central NJ
    I tip for take-out at restaurants that provide sit-down service. My reasoning is, it's a place where the servers are ordinarily tipped. When someone is working the carry-out counter, they're usually not waiting tables and thus not getting tips from that. I have heard that some restaurants pay the person working carry-out more per hour to compensate for that, but not all do, and I have no way of knowing which do, so I go ahead and tip. I tip a smaller percentage than I would for table service, since they only have to make one trip to my car or the counter, usually around 10%. Having worked tipped jobs before (pizza delivery), I know that the extra couple bucks doesn't make a big deal to me, the customer, but makes a big difference to them. If I can't spare a couple bucks, I probably shouldn't be ordering out in the first place.

    Yes, the American tipping system is unfair and illogical, but it's just the way it is, and I'm not going to accomplish anything by withholding a tip, beyond punishing someone who isn't responsible for making things the way they are.

  12. #52

    stop tipping

    If everyone stopped tipping the practice would end pretty quick. I used to give a flat 15%...but now I'm very variable in what i will give for a tip. I will reward good service and I will punish bad service. It comes out about the same to me, but I reward people who do an excellent job. Probably won't punish at places that I frequent unless it is really bad...ej

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by kexman View Post
    If everyone stopped tipping the practice would end pretty quick.
    Sorry, that horse is done outta the barn...

  14. #54
    not a huge surprise that tipping is down, but an interesting article nonetheless.

    http://www.ajc.com/services/content/...xsvc=7&cxcat=6

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Goldsboro, NC

    Tipping....

    Many of you know that I am a school teacher and because we don't make a hefty salary (I can see the shock on your face now) I have to work a second job catering for a restaraunt. I was shocked to hear that the take-out people in some restaraunts make what waitresses do, bc where I work the take out people make your typical $6.15-$8.00 an hour. But I have come to bring justice to all the people out there who are catering for a living. TIP THEM PLEASE!!! When I cater I get tipped about 50% of the time, and it usually ranges between $10 - $100. I only serve the people for about one hour which is why most people feel the tip is unnecessary. I had one guy tell me, "well you guys get paid by the hour don't you and you only worked for one hour." SO........let me set the record straight. We get the minimum wage per hour, YES. However, if I am serving you at say 12:00 pm, I will generally get to the restaraunt at around 9:00 am. I spend about 2 hours preparing the food and then leave around 11:00am. I get there with about 30 minutes to set up and prepare and then serve from 12:00-1:00pm. Then I drive 30 minutes back and spend about another hour cleaning everything up. All in all, I spend about 6 hours doing a cater. Which if you are getting minimum wage is not all that much as far as money goes. So keep this in mind if you have something catered. A waitress spends maybe 30 minutes to an hour serving you at a restaurant and you may leave her $5.00. But a caterer spends about 6 hours on your meal and they often get nothing. We also serve a lot more people than a waitress. The restaraunt I work for will send one person to serve up to 100 people. So if you have an event catered, make sure you tip those guys or girls because they work extremely hard to make your "event" a good one and they are not getting paid a whole lot to do it. The tip is NOT included and should be around 10% of the total bill. If you have 100 people there ask everyone to give an additional $.50 and that will be a $50 tip. Just looking out for all the caterers out there!!!

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by dkbaseball View Post
    One consequence: You don't find yourself getting hustled out of a restaurant as soon as you're finished eating, so the next customer/employer can be seated. In most of Europe, you have to flag the servers down just to get your bill. The business model of paying employees a decent wage seems to work for restaurants in other countries. Don't know why it wouldn't here.

    It's funny - I think this is a bad thing. In NY, when I was ready for the check, I got it. Here in Europe, I find the wait for the check, and the second wait for the change/credit card to be agonizing. I've waited for an hour to pay before.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by tecumseh View Post
    I never know what to tip if you are eating at a buffet where the server does about half the work of a regular waiter/waitress? 10%? Any thoughts.
    My wife worked at a restaurant in college that had both buffet and non-buffet, and said the buffet was just as much work as a non-buffet (and sometimes more). She still had to bring out drinks.Though she didn't bring out food, she had to bus a lot more dishes (in many states it's a health code violation to bring a dirty plate up to the buffet). I'd encourage you to tip 15% for the buffet waitstaff.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Two miles south of Cameron
    Quote Originally Posted by gus View Post
    My wife worked at a restaurant in college that had both buffet and non-buffet, and said the buffet was just as much work as a non-buffet (and sometimes more). She still had to bring out drinks.Though she didn't bring out food, she had to bus a lot more dishes (in many states it's a health code violation to bring a dirty plate up to the buffet). I'd encourage you to tip 15% for the buffet waitstaff.
    There's a lot of variation on how this kind of thing works. For example many many years ago I was a Pizza Hut waitress. We did everything except cook: seat customers, wait tables, run the cash resgiter, restock the salad bar, make iced tea, bus tables & clean up the dining area etc. Most people did not tip if they came in during the lunch buffet, and yet we had to bring the drinks and plates, check on them and see if they needed more to drink or were ready for the check and bus their tables. Non-buffet was a little more work but mainly it was thought work - getting the orders right etc. In terms of physical labor, buffet and non-buffet were about the same. In fact, buffet was a little harder because usually tables turn over faster during a buffet since there's no wait time for the food to arrive at the table.

    Some places have separate staff to bus tables/clean up, sometimes a buffet/salad bar is restocked by cooks or kitchen workers, some places you get your drink and plate and pay when you come in (think Golden Corral) and all the server does is check on you and bring more plates/drinks as needed. I still tip in those places, but I tip less than I would if you have real wait staff doing all the normal work of waiters/waitresses.

  19. #59

    interesting...

    Quote Originally Posted by billybreen View Post
    Service industry jobs are based on the expectation of a tip. They are payed below normal in the expectation that a standard tip will compensate them normally and anything beyond is a bonus. That's not getting paid extra just for doing your job.
    My wife worked at mutliple restaurants, including a truck stop and a cracker barrel, while working her way through college. She told me that when she worked the register/takeout/hostess position, she got full pay, not the cut pay of a waitress. When she worked as a waitress, she got half pay. She told me that when she worked there, that was the law in VA. Only the wait staff could be paid less. Maybe that's changed in the last fifteen years.

    Also, by one person's account, the takeout guy has to deal with 7 meals at a time. He does not, however, have to refill drinks, bring extra courses, listen to kids screaming and have food thrown at them (by the kids I mean), etc. He can also handle about 15-25 orders an hour, so if you tip him the full 15% he's going to make a killing!

    On a side note, my only job in the sales/service industry was as a blue shirt at a Blockbuster. I did, however, know my movies and used my 5 free rentals a week to up my knowledge to better help customers. Most of my fellow employees sent people with questions to me. As a result, I actually did get tipped once in a while. My best tip was when a harried father came in with his three little kids and had his 7 year old daughter ask me "do you have the third one where the kids do karate?" I had just happened to have seen a commercial the week before for the release of "3 Ninjas Knuckle Up". I smiled, asked them to stay there, and walked back, got it, and handed it to him. He gave me the change from a $20, which was almost $17 back then. That was the proudest moment of my blockbuster career, and I got ribbed by my buds for a week for it. But hey, with minimum wage what it was in 1992, that was almost 4 hours of work tax free. I'll never forget that.

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    I worked the Southpoint chic fil a for 2 years. I got tipped exactly once by an older lady. At the time I was surprised, because I mean who tips fast food employees. Now I actually think it should happen more often. Not 3 or 4 dollars, but keep the change kind of stuff. Ten cents a person for me on a big day could add up to 30+ bucks a day. Look at it like this. Waitress works for maybe 30 mins, gets a 5 dollar tip. Fast food working sees you for a minute or 2. So 5/30 would be 15 cents. Add in the fact that you have to deal with more a holes (more people period, plus since people see you at fast food a lot of them assume you're an idiot). I think we earn something like that. Thoughts?

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