Quincy Jones has lost his mind

[dudog84]

While I have much respect for his body of work, what's up with this? You look at any listing of who played on Beatles' records, and if it wasn't an orchestra instrument, John-Paul-George-Ringo played the vast majority of the instruments. And you don't gig for years in clubs and not become a d**n good player. Not to mention it's hard to write songs without a good understanding of music. Funny that he will criticize the Beatles when most of his famous acts didn't play an instrument at all.

It's hard to dispute his personal recollections, but I just listened to the Donna Summer song and don't get the plagiarism at all.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.3806371

[CameronBornAndBred]

Jones has been on a bit of a personal bashing tour of late, and it's not to becoming of a guy that would otherwise have an amazing career. Last week I read that he thinks Taylor Swift sucks, especially as a song writer, which goes against the grain of most criticism. To each his own, but you'd think that a person of his stature might know it's tactful to keep some of those thoughts to himself; it's not like he'll gain anything from sharing them other than turning some people off.

[Jeffrey]

Jones has been on a bit of a personal bashing tour of late...

Yep, he is even bashing his friends. For example, he slammed Hillary pretty good.

The good news is he knows who killed JFK. If only he had proved it to the U.S. Government during the 60's.

[rthomas]

re: The Beatles

Not saying Jones is right or wrong, but if you watch the documentary, The Wrecking Crew, you realize how little of the songs some of your favorite bands from the 1960's actually played. Including the Beach Boys, Byrds, and a host of others.

The Wrecking Crew is an awesome doc of some of the best studio musicians ever.

[Jeffrey]

re: The Beatles

Not saying Jones is right or wrong, but if you watch the documentary, The Wrecking Crew, you realize how little of the songs some of your favorite bands from the 1960's actually played. Including the Beach Boys, Byrds, and a host of others.

The Wrecking Crew is an awesome doc of some of the best studio musicians ever.

Yes, no doubt, there were much better instrumentalist in the music world. However, Brian Wilson was a true musical genius, regardless of how well he played an instrument.

In regards to instrumentalist, Jones is still totally whacked. Jones recently said that Paul Allen is comparable to Jimi Hendrix in guitar playing. IMO, Jimi was the GOAT!

[rthomas]

Yes, no doubt, there were much better instrumentalist in the music world. However, Brian Wilson was a true musical genius, regardless of how well he played an instrument.

In regards to instrumentalist, Jones is still totally whacked. Jones recently said that Paul Allen is comparable to Jimi Hendrix in guitar playing. IMO, Jimi was the GOAT!

Agree with you about Brian Wilson. It was his idea to use The Wrecking Crew instead of his own band on the iconic Pet Sounds. He kew his band couldn't hack his perfection mania but The Wrecking Crew could.

[Jeffrey]

Agree with you about Brian Wilson. It was his idea to use The Wrecking Crew instead of his own band on the iconic Pet Sounds. He kew his band couldn't hack his perfection mania but The Wrecking Crew could.

Yep, which is why Brian Wilson tried to get Glenn Campbell to permanently join his band. Glenn was a great instrumentalist!

[dudog84]

Not sure where you guys are going with this. The point was about the Beatles. I'm 99.99% sure The Wrecking Crew never played on any Beatles records.

And if you look at who they played for, it's almost exclusively a bunch of artists who did not play any instruments, and certainly didn't have a band.

[Jeffrey]

Not sure where you guys are going with this.

I'm supporting your thread title, "Quincy Jones has lost his mind".

[Duke79UNLV77]

I like the Beatles, though I don't think any of them are/were top-level instrumentalists. I agree with Quincy on Taylor Swift. From seeing her in years past, I also don't think that's her real, unaltered voice on her latest hit.

[Jeffrey]

I like the Beatles, though I don't think any of them are/were top-level instrumentalists.

IMO, George Harrison was a "top-level instrumentalists".

[CameronBornAndBred]

IMO, George Harrison was a "top-level instrumentalists".

I was just about to post the same thing. Hell, dude learned how to play the sitar. And regardless of Sir Paul being "top-level" or not, he's a great showman.

[luvdahops]

I was just about to post the same thing. Hell, dude learned how to play the sitar. And regardless of Sir Paul being "top-level" or not, he's a great showman.

Sir Paul is also one of the great melody writers in music history. George is criminally underrated as a guitarist in my view, mainly because he was rarely flashy or indulgent to the extent that so many of the generally accepted "guitar gods" have been.

[Devilwin]

IMO, George Harrison was a "top-level instrumentalists".

All of the Beatles were good musicians. Paul McCartney was as good a guitar player as George was, even played lead on several songs. And, he is one of the top bass players ever in rock music. George was vastly under rated, as was Lennon, who had a unique way of double strumming his rhythm parts. Ringo was a great drummer.
For Jones to knock the Beatles as poor musicians is lunacy.
Brian had the tracks for Pet Sounds with the Wrecking Crew recorded (except for vocals) when the guys got back off tour.

[ncexnyc]

Is this what's called a bitter old man?

[CameronBornAndBred]

Is this what's called a bitter old man?

Devildeac can offer a better synonym.

[devildeac]

Devildeac can offer a better synonym.

Is this who/what you had in mind?

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/1199/24905/

Or this?



Or this?

"And he's fair and he's true and he's boring as hell
And he'll go to the grave as an angry old man"

I'm pretty pissed off now...

[Steven43]

I like the Beatles, though I don't think any of them are/were top-level instrumentalists. I agree with Quincy on Taylor Swift. From seeing her in years past, I also don't think that's her real, unaltered voice on her latest hit.

Oh man, you must be kidding. Everything I’m going to say from this point is not my opinion but is the consensus opinion of long-time music historians as well as musicians:

Paul McCartney is widely considered to be one of the greatest, most innovative bass guitarists in rock history. Additionally, he is also considered to be one of the best rock vocalists AND songwriters ever. And believe it or not, he might not even be the most talented Beatle.

That designation might well belong to Mr. John Lennon. First of all, he may have the single most recognizable voice in popular music history, and is thought of by many as rock’s quintessential lead vocalist. His guitar style is creative and distinctive (just listen to ‘Revolution’). But it is as a songwriter that Lennon truly shines. His catalog of songs is possibly the most varied and high-quality that exists in all of popular music. The only somgwriters who even rival him are Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen and his very own bandmate, Paul McCartney.

George Harrison is thought of as a technically excellent guitarist who wrote some of the most well-known and loved guitar riffs and solos of all time. Not only that, but like his ultra-famous bandmates, Lennon and McCartney, George is also considered to be one of popular music’s best songwriters. Songs such as ‘Something’, ‘Here Comes the Sun’, and ‘While My Guitar Gently Weeps’ are just a few examples of his greatness. It is truly insane that these three gentlemen happened to be in a band together.

Last but not least is Ringo Starr. Ringo was the glue that held the band together. He was the steady rock that the others relied on to consistently provide the backbeat (along with Paul’s bass) to the music. Ringo never missed a beat and could be relied upon to always play at his best. Countless drummers of fame and distinction list Ringo as one of their major influences. He was the perfect compliment to the playing of John, Paul, and George. And beyond his drumming ability, He had a personality that allowed any of his three mates to feel comfortable and at ease when they might be feeling down or perhaps having a conflict with one of the others.

All in all, The Beatles were far and away the crown jewel of music history. The greatest band that ever existed. There is no close second. Their music will still be played centuries after all of us are long gone.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Oh man, you must be kidding. Everything I’m going to say from this point is not my opinion but is the consensus opinion of long-time music historians as well as musicians:

Paul McCartney is widely considered to be one of the greatest, most innovative bass guitarists in rock history. Additionally, he is also considered to be one of the best rock vocalists AND songwriters ever. And believe it or not, he might not even be the most talented Beatle.

That designation might well belong to Mr. John Lennon. First of all, he may have the single most recognizable voice in popular music history, and is thought of by many as rock’s quintessential lead vocalist. His guitar style is creative and distinctive (just listen to ‘Revolution’). But it is as a songwriter that Lennon truly shines. His catalog of songs is possibly the most varied and high-quality that exists in all of popular music. The only somgwriters who even rival him are Bob Dylan, Paul Simon, Bruce Springsteen and his very own bandmate, Paul McCartney.

George Harrison is thought of as a technically excellent guitarist who wrote some of the most well-known and loved guitar riffs and solos of all time. Not only that, but like his ultra-famous bandmates, Lennon and McCartney, George is also considered to be one of popular music’s best songwriters. Songs such as ‘Something’, ‘Here Comes the Sun’, and ‘While My Guitar Gently Weeps’ are just a few examples of his greatness. It is truly insane that these three gentlemen happened to be in a band together.

Last but not least is Ringo Starr. Ringo was the glue that held the band together. He was the steady rock that the others relied on to consistently provide the backbeat (along with Paul’s bass) to the music. Ringo never missed a beat and could be relied upon to always play at his best. Countless drummers of fame and distinction list Ringo as one of their major influences. He was the perfect compliment to the playing of John, Paul, and George. And beyond his drumming ability, He had a personality that allowed any of his three mates to feel comfortable and at ease when they might be feeling down or perhaps having a conflict with one of the others.

All in all, The Beatles were far and away the crown jewel of music history. The greatest band that ever existed. There is no close second. Their music will still be played centuries after all of us are long gone.

I wasn't talking about their songwriting, their personalities/personas, or their voices, though, admittedly, the voice is an instrument. Again, I like the Beatles, but I don't worship them. From their era, for example, I like the Who and Paul Simon (with or without Garfunkel) better. Focusing on technical chops on their instruments, I just don't find them exceptional. Harrison's probably the best, but there are many more technically skilled rock guitarists. When I see arguments that Ringo Starr was a great drummer, I just think Beatlemania can see no wrong. I can easily believe that Ringo was one of the lower level technical drummers with whom Quincy Jones has worked. Quincy may be bitter and taking swipes, but I think there is some truth in what he's saying.

[Mal]

Since this thread has devolved into "Discuss the merits of the Beatles as musicians, collectively and individually" I'll jump in (the rest of Jones' comments being bizarre and/or possibly intentionally yanking his interviewer's chain).

I will never understand the Beatles superfan inability to accept some level of criticism of anyone in the band as something other than an indictment of the whole endeavor, or a claim that they're overrated or something. They were great. They revolutionized popular music and the recording of it. They wrote and recorded songs that stand the test of time. But they weren't perfect. They weren't the only band in existence in the 1960's. They weren't the only ones influencing other artists. They were not hothouse flowers evolved completely devoid of the influence of others upon them or sprung fully formed in Platonic perfection. They weren't each individually the greatest of all time at everything they did. Is it so hard to accept the unlikelihood that the four most amazing instrumentalists a higher power ever put on Earth were all born around the same time in the same English city and then met and formed a band? Over time, the conventional wisdom has become "The Beatles were the greatest band of all time" and as that mythologizing of them has aged, it's come with (a) occasional overstatements of their greatness presented as indisputable truth (looking your way Steven43 ), which inevitably leads to (b) pushback, which can itself go too far, of course. The "the Beatles weren't very good players of instruments" is a common form of (b), and Quincy Jones just provided a particularly blunt and ridiculous example of it.

So, with that said, Lennon was a phenomenal songwriter, and a good but nowhere near Pantheon level guitarist/instrumentalist. Having a few signature moves and unique tendencies that make one distinctive is not the same thing as being "great."

And saying that Ringo Starr was the perfect drummer for the Beatles or a steady hand who never lost the beat is like saying Ringo Starr was perfectly adequate but probably could have been replaced by a thousand others. I give him credit for managing to keep up where a few predecessors apparently couldn't, but that doesn't make him a great drummer or amazing musician. He wrote very few songs as a Beatle, wrote a bunch of what could charitably be described as bad songs thereafter, and was at best a subpar singer. I really like his drumming work on "Dear Prudence" and "Tomorrow Never Knows" but beyond that he was mostly just there, and occasionally came across as a bit clunky and methodical, without a whole lot of creativity or chops.

Which is all fine. It's likely the Beatles wouldn't have worked as well with someone like John Bonham hogging all the attention, and the songwriting might have gotten lost with a more angular or syncopated drummer like Stewart Copeland. That doesn't make Ringo a genius. Jordan and Pippen needed Rodman to do the dirty work, but that doesn't mean Dennis Rodman's one of the best basketball players of all time. And being an all-star off the court, while immeasurably valuable to the band, is not what we're talking about here. That's searching for ways to elevate him that aren't necessary. Maybe our lives are all the better for the fact that Ringo Starr was a good but not transcendent drummer.

I thought the conventional wisdom has swung the pendulum the other way on Harrison, to a general consensus that he was exceptional despite being largely lost in the hype of the moment while the band was recording, and everyone now loving on his good taste and economy. And I don't recall many people ever saying with a straight face that McCartney was anything less than a great bass player whose skill on a number of other instruments elevated him to a very high status.