MLax: 2018 Season

[MCFinARL]

Preston wasn't making a point about enrollment numbers of schools.

His point, which is valid, was that schools with bigger athletic programs, and specifically major football schools, have a recruiting advantage. As lacrosse becomes more mainstream in the US vs. the regional niche it has occupied, his point becomes more valid. Just like other non-revenue sports, the P5 schools will become dominant in most cases because of the funding they are able to put into their total sports program.

I understand that his main point was about big athletic programs and big athletes, but that is not exactly what he said:

But it’s hard for small schools such as Loyola and Towson to compete with big schools such as Maryland, Duke (6-1) and Syracuse, especially those universities with nationally ranked football programs.

Schools such as Loyola, Towson, Albany and Hofstra can still compete, but it’s hard to be a serious contender every year. That’s why the smaller schools love to play in conferences with other small schools because it levels the playing field as far as getting into the NCAA tournament and possibly winning the title.

Call me a nitpicker if you like, and I probably am, but of the schools he lists, really only Loyola can legitimately be called a "small school." Towson, with 19,000 undergrads, is quite a big school. He would have made his own point more clearly and more effectively if he had specified the size of the athletic budgets or programs rather than the size of the schools.

[budwom]

I understand that his main point was about big athletic programs and big athletes, but that is not exactly what he said:





Call me a nitpicker if you like, and I probably am, but of the schools he lists, really only Loyola can legitimately be called a "small school." Towson, with 19,000 undergrads, is quite a big school. He would have made his own point more clearly and more effectively if he had specified the size of the athletic budgets or programs rather than the size of the schools.

And I don't even think I buy the notion that a bigger athletic dept. budget gets you some significant advantage. There all kinds of schools which have done well and will continue to do so that don't have major
athletic departments...Johns Hopkins, Loyola, Towson, Denver, Albany, some of the Ivies like Princeton, Yale, Cornell, Penn. I'm sure most of those (the Ivies do things a bit differently but they do give plenty of aid) give the maximum number of scholarships and have highly competitive lax program budgets.

[sagegrouse]

And I don't even think I buy the notion that a bigger athletic dept. budget gets you some significant advantage. There all kinds of schools which have done well and will continue to do so that don't have major
athletic departments...Johns Hopkins, Loyola, Towson, Denver, Albany, some of the Ivies like Princeton, Yale, Cornell, Penn. I'm sure most of those (the Ivies do things a bit differently but they do give plenty of aid) give the maximum number of scholarships and have highly competitive lax program budgets.

On behalf of Denver, it is a big-time athletic program WITHOUT football or Div. 1 basketball. Lacrosse, soccer, and hockey are among the strongest in the entire country.

[budwom]

On behalf of Denver, it is a big-time athletic program WITHOUT football or Div. 1 basketball. Lacrosse, soccer, and hockey are among the strongest in the entire country.

I'm hardly disagreeing with that, Sage. I'm only aiding in refuting the notion that big budgeted athletic programs (with football)have some big advantage in fielding lacrosse teams.
Denver has lots of big time programs...but because they don't play football, their athletic dept budget size is modest, roughly $28 million. That's about the same as Duke's football budget alone, hoops is
another $20 million...all in all, Duke's budget in 2015 was roughly $92 million.

[MCFinARL]

And I don't even think I buy the notion that a bigger athletic dept. budget gets you some significant advantage. There all kinds of schools which have done well and will continue to do so that don't have major
athletic departments...Johns Hopkins, Loyola, Towson, Denver, Albany, some of the Ivies like Princeton, Yale, Cornell, Penn. I'm sure most of those (the Ivies do things a bit differently but they do give plenty of aid) give the maximum number of scholarships and have highly competitive lax program budgets.

Very good point. In some ways, the Ivies may actually have a bit of an advantage, because, while they don't offer any athletic scholarships (by league rule), they generally offer, as you note, generous need-based financial aid. Given that lacrosse scholarships are limited enough that few players actually get a full ride anyway, the need-based aid standards at schools like Harvard and Yale might be extremely competitive with athletic aid somewhere else.

[BigWayne]

And I don't even think I buy the notion that a bigger athletic dept. budget gets you some significant advantage. There all kinds of schools which have done well and will continue to do so that don't have major
athletic departments...Johns Hopkins, Loyola, Towson, Denver, Albany, some of the Ivies like Princeton, Yale, Cornell, Penn. I'm sure most of those (the Ivies do things a bit differently but they do give plenty of aid) give the maximum number of scholarships and have highly competitive lax program budgets.

That is the current and historical case, but that is changing. The growth of lacrosse beyond its historical eastern US footprint will end up bringing more of the P5 schools. Schools like Mercer and Jacksonville have seen the success of Denver and Loyola and want to try to get in on it, but it's a challenging effort still for them. Places like Ohio State and Michigan can go from club status to being significant powers in lacrosse in a very short time.

Georgia has over 100 HS lacrosse teams now. If UGA wants to field a lacrosse team, they could be a significant player in short order.

[budwom]

That is the current and historical case, but that is changing. The growth of lacrosse beyond its historical eastern US footprint will end up bringing more of the P5 schools. Schools like Mercer and Jacksonville have seen the success of Denver and Loyola and want to try to get in on it, but it's a challenging effort still for them. Places like Ohio State and Michigan can go from club status to being significant powers in lacrosse in a very short time.

Georgia has over 100 HS lacrosse teams now. If UGA wants to field a lacrosse team, they could be a significant player in short order.

Yeah, I think that's true, major universities have a big startup advantage...I just don't think I buy the notion that for existing programs, big budgeted athletic depts. with football teams
have any advantage whatsoever over schools that don't. In fact, given the cost of running a football program, maybe it's a disadvantage. (football programs are painfully expensive, and studies have often found
that many if not most programs actually lose money, though it must be noted that how schools account for costs is VERY inconsistent, and apples and apples can rarely be compared.)

[burnspbesq]

If UGA wants to field a lacrosse team, they could be a significant player in short order.

Not so much. GaTech is one of three ACC men’s club programs that are perennial MCLA powerhouses (BC and VaTech are the others). If the Dawgs and Wreck were to switch to NCAA D1 at the same time, my money would be on GaTech to be way ahead after five years. They might not win a single ACC game during that period, but they would be feasting on SoCon, NEC, and America East teams in no time.

[53n206]

Bring them on. The more the merrier. Expansion into the Southwest, led by the Dallas area, will introduced many talented athletes to the game, and ultimately to Duke.

[budwom]

bumped the thread to pose a question: Men's lax is playing at Towson on Saturday, then at Cleveland State the next day. Why? I know Cleveland State isn't very good (but they're not a total joke either), and that seems like an unusual amount of travel. Two games in two days is pretty unusual; two road games at different venues is something I can't recall (among many other things I can't recall).

[budwom]

can't get much out of the previous bump, but i'm persistent. Lax today vs Towson, then Cleveland St tomorrow, still now answer as two why two road games in two days, there must be some unusual reason, even if Cleveland St. ain't much...Towson is a genuine opponent..

[duke2x]

My guesses:

1. It's Spring Break when road games are easier.
2. Danowski has a tradition of playing most of the brand new teams on a 2-1 basis. Hampton was the exception.
3. It gives us access to OH recruiting without playing OSU.
4. Don't expect the starters to play past the first quarter or once Duke has a lead.

They will have a week off to play Syracuse next Saturday in Durham. Towson is off to a so-so start (3-3) but is still a top 15 opponent.

[DST Fan]

Duke up 7-2 at the half.

[budwom]

great, i'm sure Danowski would like to rest some of the guys for tomorrow (though I agree, starters may not play too much vs Cleveland St)..

p.s. uh oh bigtime, it's 7-6 in the third, so much for resting starters

[budwom]

Towson ties it at 8, Duke then scores twice, 10-8 Duke, 4:22 left.

[chrishoke]

Duke wins 10-8. We went from up 7-2 to down 8-7.

[53n206]

We can look so very good-- then see Penn and now Towson! what gives?

[DST Fan]

We can look so very good-- then see Penn and now Towson! what gives?

I was only watching live stats, but, like the Penn game, Duke had a long stretch in which the offense apparently did not click and scored no goals in the third quarter. Towson has been a strong defensive team the past couple of years, so this may account for some of the drought. Duke won only 8 of 21 faceoffs, but Joe Stein went 6-14 and was was coming off a nice game against Loyola.

I think the positive take away was that, after giving up a 7-2 lead and trailing 8-7, Duke did not fold in the last 10 minutes of the game.

[buddy]

Duke wins 10-8. We went from up 7-2 to down 8-7.

First, no lead is ever safe in lacrosse. This is a game where theoretically one team can never get the ball. Second, Towson's FO % so far is 65%, so we actually did a little better than expected. Finally, we did come back. Towson is a real team, even though their record is mediocre this season. Take care of business tomorrow and then start conference play.

[fuse]

First, no lead is ever safe in lacrosse. This is a game where theoretically one team can never get the ball. Second, Towson's FO % so far is 65%, so we actually did a little better than expected. Finally, we did come back. Towson is a real team, even though their record is mediocre this season. Take care of business tomorrow and then start conference play.

There is a reason lacrosse is billed as the fastest sport on two feet.