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Thread: Tiger Woods

  1. #81

    Here We Go Again

    I couldn't watch the playoff in real time yesterday, so I went to check at bedtime to see who won the tournament. I had to click through to the "Golf" subpage, and to the FOURTH headline therein to find out, because the only things that apparently mattered were about a guy who finished at even par and could have shot the low round of the entire tournament yesterday and still finished two strokes back of the winner.

    I know that guy was at one time the most amazing golfer in the world and on his way to becoming the greatest of all-time. But c'mon. Golf was doing alright while Tiger Woods was lost in the wilderness, with a lot of really good young players that the media could be focusing on as the future of the game. The game doesn't "need" Tiger Woods. Admittedly a lot of fans prefer the game when he's around, but this is like an addiction. No one's doing the game any favors by immediately elevating Woods above the rest of the field aggregated again before he even turns in a Top 10 finish.

    He played well, and indicated he can likely be a factor going forward at least for awhile, until either he starts to lose more ground in power or he gets hurt again. He also missed the cut last week, by 4 strokes. I'll take Jack Nicklaus's word for it that if Tiger can stay healthy he will be in contention at the Masters at some point. Can't we just wait and let that happen?

    //frustrated ranting

    The only real question regarding the upside right now, to my mind, is this: is the lack of driving accuracy (a) a fluke that, once regressed to the mean, gains Tiger a few more strokes per tournament, or (b) indicative of overswinging and refusing to lose more distance to today's biggest hitters? He's 29th in distance so far on the year, about 8-10 yards behind Thomas and Day, and a full 20+ behind Finau, but 213th in accuracy. So either he gets dialed in and starts hitting more than 40% of fairways while still hitting 305+, or he needs to ratchet it back a bit and concede some distance. Possible small sample size effect here, of course, given it's late February.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    .... Whether you think it's due to Elin's 7-iron to the side of his head or his body giving out (multiple surgeries), he's not the same guy. ....
    Could've sworn it was either a pitching wedge or a 9-iron. 7 is just too much club.
    "We are not provided with wisdom, we must discover it for ourselves, after a journey through the wilderness which no one else can take for us, an effort which no one can spare us, for our wisdom is the point of view from which we come at last to regard the world." --M. Proust

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Could've sworn it was either a pitching wedge or a 9-iron. 7 is just too much club.
    You're right, depends on the yardage. Let's compromise, it's about 195 yards, so let's use an 8-iron:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg8lSyGavc4

    Edit: Dang, don't know how to make the clip show. It's Bill Murray (Carl Spackler) as the Cinderella Boy on the 18th hole at the Masters. "It's in the hole!"

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by rsvman View Post
    Could've sworn it was either a pitching wedge or a 9-iron. 7 is just too much club.
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    You're right, depends on the yardage. Let's compromise, it's about 195 yards, so let's use an 8-iron:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bg8lSyGavc4

    Edit: Dang, don't know how to make the clip show. It's Bill Murray (Carl Spackler) as the Cinderella Boy on the 18th hole at the Masters. "It's in the hole!"
    She wanted to hit a low roller - whatever club she used ...

    Sad thing is - some of the pros these days ARE hitting an 8-iron from 195 out! They DON'T hit their 2 iron off the tee 100 yds or their 5 irons 160 yds (particularly when they get "all of it").


    Anyone else amused at the juxtaposition of the "Tiger Woods" and "Walking Dead" threads?

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    On the Road to Nowhere
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    She wanted to hit a low roller - whatever club she used ...

    Sad thing is - some of the pros these days ARE hitting an 8-iron from 195 out! They DON'T hit their 2 iron off the tee 100 yds or their 5 irons 160 yds (particularly when they get "all of it").


    Anyone else amused at the juxtaposition of the "Tiger Woods" and "Walking Dead" threads?
    That's the best part of the clip. If you're not a golfer, you're amused he's chopping the crap out of the country club's flowers. But even if you're a duffer the running commentary is hilarious.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Deeetroit City
    Well, if Lefty can win a tourney at 47 after a five year drought, why not Tiger?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Well, if Lefty can win a tourney at 47 after a five year drought, why not Tiger?
    Phil was very competitive during his winless drought. Heck, it took one of the greatest major rounds in history by Henrik Stenson (final round 63) to keep Phil from winning another Open Championship in 2016. In addition, Phil had 4 top ten finishing this season headed into the win yesterday. He now ranks second this season with 5 top ten finishes and that's with only 8 events played. Tiger, over the last couple of years has had a hard time finishing a tournament.

    Tiger is arguably the greatest golfer ever but his health is such a huge factor for him. Also, no one is intimidated by him anymore. It used the be that Tiger would win just by being a few shots of the lead on Sunday because the opponents would fold. That mystique is gone. Oh yeah, this young guys are really good too.
    Last edited by nmduke2001; 03-05-2018 at 12:29 PM.

  8. #88
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    Apr 2011
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    Winston’Salem
    Quote Originally Posted by nmduke2001 View Post
    Phil was very competitive during his winless drought. Heck, it took one of the greatest major rounds in history by Henrik Stenson (final round 63) to keep Phil from winning another Open Championship in 2016. In addition, Phil had 4 top ten finishing this season headed into the win yesterday. He now ranks second this season with 5 top ten finishes and that's with only 8 events played. Tiger, over the last couple of years has had a hard time finishing a tournament.

    Tiger is arguably the greatest golfer ever but his health is such a huge factor for him. Also, no one is intimidated by him anymore. It used the be that Tiger would win just by being a few shots of the lead on Sunday because the opponents would fold. That mystique is gone. Oh yeah, this young guys are really good too.
    +1 on this.

    I also think Phil, right now, is in a far better place than Tiger not only physically but *mentally.* A reporter pointed out yesterday in the press conference that Phil needed seven more wins to get to 50 PGA Tour victories, and asked if he thought he could do it. Without even the slightest hesitation, Phil said (paraphrasing), "Oh yeah, I'll get there." And then, when asked a follow-up by the same reporter, about whether he ever thought he might not win again, Phil replied, "No, not at all. I knew that [last win] wasn't the last one. And this one isn't, either." Call it irrational exuberance, if you want, but his confidence (at least his publicly portrayed confidence) knows no bounds.

    Point being, right now, I think Tiger would hem and haw about it.
    "Amazing what a minute can do."

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by nmduke2001 View Post
    Phil was very competitive during his winless drought. Heck, it took one of the greatest major rounds in history by Henrik Stenson (final round 63) to keep Phil from winning another Open Championship in 2016. In addition, Phil had 4 top ten finishing this season headed into the win yesterday. He now ranks second this season with 5 top ten finishes and that's with only 8 events played. Tiger, over the last couple of years has had a hard time finishing a tournament.

    Tiger is arguably the greatest golfer ever but his health is such a huge factor for him. Also, no one is intimidated by him anymore. It used the be that Tiger would win just by being a few shots of the lead on Sunday because the opponents would fold. That mystique is gone. Oh yeah, this young guys are really good too.
    Not sure where you get this. I would bet that 95% are still intimidated by Tiger, maybe 5% are not. The 5% are really good.
    ~rthomas

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    Not sure where you get this. I would bet that 95% are still intimidated by Tiger, maybe 5% are not. The 5% are really good.
    We won't really know this until Tiger is within a couple strokes of the lead on Sunday... something that has not happened in a few years. I think the roar of him making a charge would still be a good bit more intimidating than anyone else on tour today... but the conditions for it to happen haven't been there in a while.

    -Jason "maybe next month..." Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    We won't really know this until Tiger is within a couple strokes of the lead on Sunday... something that has not happened in a few years. I think the roar of him making a charge would still be a good bit more intimidating than anyone else on tour today... but the conditions for it to happen haven't been there in a while.

    -Jason "maybe next month..." Evans

    Indeed. This is all talk until we see how Tiger holds up. But as someone who was at Torrey Pines in ‘08, the roar when Tiger does something big needs to be witnessed to be believed.
    Carolina delenda est

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by rthomas View Post
    Not sure where you get this. I would bet that 95% are still intimidated by Tiger, maybe 5% are not. The 5% are really good.
    I'm not trying to name drop but I know Notah Begay pretty well. I worked with his brother at a golf course when I was growing up and now my daughter and Notah's son are in the same class. Notah is probably Tiger's best friend. Next time I see him, I'll ask him what he thinks.

    My feeling is that guys like Jordan Spieth and Justin Thomas were barely 14 the last time Tiger won a major. All they have experienced is a guy that withdrawals a lot or sometimes misses cuts. Every single one of those young guys hit the ball as far as Tiger did in his day. All of the young guys are rich. It's not like the 90s and early 2000s when Tiger outdrove everyone on tour and the guys he was playing against needed to win in order to feed their families. Heck, our very own Kevin Streelman has earned $16 million with just 2 career wins not including endorsements (thanks mostly to Tiger bringing purses way up).

    If anything, I would guess that Tiger is the guy that would be intimidated teeing it up against someone like Dustin Johnson. DJ stripes drives 350 off the tee. Just maybe, does Tiger wonder if he belongs anymore?

  13. #93
    By the way, this is fascinating.

    PGA average driving distant by player in 2000 and 2018 YTD.

    https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2018.html
    https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2000.html

    In 2000, there is a 9.3 yard difference between number 2 Tiger and number 3 Davis Love III/Phil Mickelson. Phil hits the ball further today than he did in 2000.

  14. #94
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    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by nmduke2001 View Post
    By the way, this is fascinating.

    PGA average driving distant by player in 2000 and 2018 YTD.

    https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2018.html
    https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.101.2000.html

    In 2000, there is a 9.3 yard difference between number 2 Tiger and number 3 Davis Love III/Phil Mickelson. Phil hits the ball further today than he did in 2000.
    Interesting, yes. But worth noting that people have been outdriving Woods since as 2002. Phil outdrove Woods by an average of 6.5 yards (306 to 299.5) as far back as 2003. The idea that Woods dominated the tour by simply outdriving everyone is a myth. It was loosely true in the late-90s, but beginning in the very early 2000s and beyond it really hasn't been true. There have been years here and there where Tiger was driving near the top, but he's usually been in the 5 to 15 range, with some of the guys driving 10+ yards further than him.

  15. #95
    What was the time frame where Tiger abandoned his driver because he wasn’t hitting as many fairways?

  16. #96
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    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Interesting, yes. But worth noting that people have been outdriving Woods since as 2002. Phil outdrove Woods by an average of 6.5 yards (306 to 299.5) as far back as 2003. The idea that Woods dominated the tour by simply outdriving everyone is a myth. It was loosely true in the late-90s, but beginning in the very early 2000s and beyond it really hasn't been true. There have been years here and there where Tiger was driving near the top, but he's usually been in the 5 to 15 range, with some of the guys driving 10+ yards further than him.
    Although it was noted that Tiger out drove some courses, as a casual fan (meaning I don't know crap, really) what I've always thought/heard was that Tiger won because he had the best short game. Which I thought also meant he could use driver off the tee and when it went bad, he could gouge it out and onto the green and avoid big numbers. When it went good he had easy birdie opportunities.

    BTW, really happy to see Phil win again.

  17. #97
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    Feb 2007
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    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    Although it was noted that Tiger out drove some courses, as a casual fan (meaning I don't know crap, really) what I've always thought/heard was that Tiger won because he had the best short game. Which I thought also meant he could use driver off the tee and when it went bad, he could gouge it out and onto the green and avoid big numbers. When it went good he had easy birdie opportunities.

    BTW, really happy to see Phil win again.
    Yep, this sums it up. Woods was always hit or miss with the driver. But his approaches and shotmaking were among the best in the game, as was his work on and around the greens. So while he was a bit scattershot off the tee, he would find his way to the hole somehow anyway. He just had a way of finding a magical shot to bail himself out of bad situations.

  18. #98
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    Feb 2007
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    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Yep, this sums it up. Woods was always hit or miss with the driver. But his approaches and shot-making were among the best in the game,...
    Part of that is because he would be hitting 9-iron or wedge at greens where his competition needed to hit 7 or 8 irons to reach.

    Driving stats can be misleading, as Tiger wood (ha-ha) often hit less club off of a tee just to keep a ball in play or so as not to outdrive a fairway. These drives brought him back to the mean. Also consider how much average distance Tiger lost in the rough, in trees, in heather, in sand, against broadcast towers, hitting spectators ... . When Tiger striped a ball down the middle, he would usually be 30 -50 yards ahead of his tee group - an intimidating factor.

    I understand that Tiger's club head speed is actually as fast or faster than when he was in his prime. He just isn't hitting the ball as far as the top 40-50 players.

  19. #99
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    Feb 2007
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    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by nmduke2001 View Post
    It used the be that Tiger would win just by being a few shots of the lead on Sunday because the opponents would fold. That mystique is gone. Oh yeah, this young guys are really good too.
    Is this true? Or, an Urban Legend? My memory tells me Tiger was a notorious front runner, at least in Major Championships. When Tiger won a major he dominated starting on Thursday.
    Bob Green

  20. #100
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Green View Post
    Is this true? Or, an Urban Legend? My memory tells me Tiger was a notorious front runner, at least in Major Championships. When Tiger won a major he dominated starting on Thursday.
    As far as majors are concerned, you would be correct.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...in-sports-ever

    I think those few times when Tiger wasn't leading and he made a shot that sent the crowd into a roar, causing the leader to fold, sticks out in people's minds more so than how many times that actually happened because of the high drama associated with it.

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