Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 89
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    About 150 feet in front of the Duke Chapel doors.

    MBB: Duke vs Wake Forest (Sat, 1/13, noon, ACCNtwk) Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

    Duke hosts Wake Forest this Saturday at noon in Cameron.
    JBDuke

    Andre Dawkins: ďPeople ask me if I can still shoot, and I ask them if they can still breathe. Thatís kind of the same thing.Ē

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Letís keep this train rolling!
       

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Santa Clara, CA
    Unfortunately Wake isn't all that much more of a test than Pitt at this point. Losses to Liberty and Drake aren't exactly losing to Wagner (9F), but they are bad losses. More was expected from Wake. Probably just more time for Duke to work on their defense in the safe confines of Cameron.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    WF is a lot better than Pitt.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    WF is a lot better than Pitt.
    Agreed. Wake has at least won a game against a Power-5 school this year. And arguably has some NBA talent as well. And way more experience.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    Unfortunately Wake isn't all that much more of a test than Pitt at this point. Losses to Liberty and Drake aren't exactly losing to Wagner (9F), but they are bad losses. More was expected from Wake. Probably just more time for Duke to work on their defense in the safe confines of Cameron.
    Well, according to KenPom, they have a better offense than NC State. So if NC State scored 96 on us . . . .

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Didnít Wake take UNC to the wire in CH? They can get up for the big games, I would not take this one lightly.
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    WF is a lot better than Pitt.
    and it's almost entirely on the offensive end. defenses are ranked nearly identically. should be a good test.
    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC

    Scouting Report

    Wake is a significant step up from what we faced yesterday, both in talent and experience. They are, performance-wise, not too dissimilar from State, although they accomplish it quite differently. Like State, they have a pretty good offense (slightly better) but bad defense (slightly worse). Unlike State, they don’t play particularly fast. They are a terrific shooting team, both on 3s and at the line. They defend 3s very poorly however.

    Centers: Doral Moore (7’1”, 250lb junior) is the man in the middle. Moore is a huge presence, though not a particularly skilled one. Very dangerous around the rim thanks to his size and reasonable athleticism, but away from the rim he is awful. Moore rebounds, blocks shots, and dunks. Anything else is gravy. Foul trouble is Moore’s issue. He averages 3 fouls per 22.5 mpg. When Moore sits, Olivier Sarr (7’0”, 215lb freshman from France) fills in. Sarr is a decent shooter with range out to 3pt land. But he is paper-thin, and not much of a presence inside.

    Forwards: If I had to pick a weakness for the Deacs (aside from defense), it would be at forward. They just aren’t great here. Terrence Thompson (6’7”, 215lb senior transfer from Marshall) is the de facto PF. Thompson is a solid rebounder, and a decent shooter. But not a guy who jumps off the page aside from effort. Behind him is Donovan Mitchell (6’8”, 215lb soph). Mitchell is a pure stretch four. He is a fantastic shooter snd should not be left open. He is a bad defender, though, which probably explains his limited minutes. He should not be confused with former Louisville star guard Donovan Mitchell. They are not afraid to go with four guard/wings either.

    Wings: This is an area of strength for Wake. Keyshawn Woods (6’3”, 190lb junior transfer from Charlotte) is a terrific shooter and shot creator. He is one of the best shooters in the country. A must-cover, no questions asked. Freshman Chaundey Brown (6’5”, 215lb) is the other starter. Brown is a terrific athlete who plays with strength, and also a pretty good shooter. Off the bench, Mitchell Wilbekin (6’2”, 165lb senior, Scottie’s little bro) is the primary option. Wilbekin is a shooter (45.6% 3pt), and little else. He is awful inside the arc.

    Guards: This really could just be a continuation of the previous section. Bryant Crawford (6’3”, 195lb junior) is the Deacs’ star. He is a combo guard through and through. Quite capable of scoring or distributing, though he is a better scorer than passer. Crawford is strong and athletic, and a pretty good shooter too. He has historically given us fits, and is a handful who may just wind up in the NBA. Crawford will also play SG some when Brandon Childress (6’0”, 190lb soph, Randolph’s kid) comes in. Childress has improved a good bit from last year. He plays with a fire and fearlessness, and can be a real pain. He can lose his cool, as seen in the Allen shove last year. A streaky shooter who isn’t afraid to take it into the trees.

    As you can tell, Wake’s strength is their shooting. Seven of their nine regulars shoot 35+% from 3, and one who doesn’t is a bad shooter himself. They will certainly test our defense’s progress. They aren’t just shooters - they have 3-4 guys who are dynamic with the ball in their hands. Conversely, they are bad defensively. I don’t expact this game to have less than 170 points scored.

  10. #10
    For a team featuring a lot of juniors and seniors, Wake Forest is having a tough year. They enter the matchup against Duke at 8-8, having lost 4 of their last 5 games. The team really, really struggles to defend. Their most glaring weakness come from the 3-point line, where they have allowed 39.2% shooting from beyond the arc, good for 323rd in the nation (out of 351 teams). Grayson and Gary getting hot from 3 point range would go a long way towards dumping the Demon Deacons.

    The only defensive shooting statistic where the Deacons are inside the top 100 is opponents 2P%, where they allow 46.0% shooting. Some of that is due to the presence 7'1" junior Doral Moore. Moore enrolled at Wake Forest as the highest rated recruit in a talented class that also featured John Collins, lately of the Atlanta Hawks. Now that both Collins and Konstantinos Mitoglou have left, the latter after graduating from Wake Forest, Moore is the anchor for what otherwise would be an undersized team. Of the top 6 scorers for Wake, Moore is the only one taller than 6'5" in height. There are other forwards on the roster, including 7' freshman Oliver Sarr of France. But almost all the shots are being hoisted by the 5 primary guards, Moore, and starting forward Terrence Thompson. Thompson will likely get the first crack at guarding Marvin Bagley III. The senior forward is a native of Durham, NC. He's fairly nondescript from an analytical perspective, not a particularly poor or great player at any aspect of the game. Clearly, this Wake Forest team misses Collins in the Power Forward position.

    On the offensive side of things, Wake is well above average. They shoot the ball well, averaging 39.5% on the season as a team, which is 26th in the nation. They have 5 guards that shoot the three with accuracy and regularity, including lead point guard and junior Bryant Crawford. Senior guard Mitchell Wilbekin is particularly accurate from 3, hitting 45.6% of his attempts so far this season. Wilbekin take nearly twice as many shots from beyond the arc than inside the 3-point line whereas his teammates seem just as comfortable - though often less successful - shooting inside the arc. Only a handful of Wake Forest players are efficient inside the arc, most notable center Doral Moore (72.8% 2P%) and 6'8" reserve sophomore forward Donovan Mitchell (61.1%).

    One area where Wake really struggles is holding onto the ball. They average 13.6 turnovers a game, good for 189th in the country. A lot of that blame falls on lead point guard Crawford, who is giving up the ball an average of 3.4 times per game. Crawford is having a bit of a down year after a pretty good sophomore campaign. His 3-point shooting has improved and he's lights out from the free throw line (90.5%), but his rebounds, assists, turnovers, and scoring have all sagged a little from last year. He's getting far more attention from opposing defenses and not handling it particularly well. Fellow junior Keyshawn Woods has much the same story. He's scoring more than he was a year ago, but his overall game has suffered. Woods is averaging half as many assists and rebounds this season.

    The game plan here appears fairly simple: Limit the number of open looks from 3 for Wake's guards. If possible, get Doral Moore in foul trouble (he's only averaging 5.3 fouls per 40 minutes, which is quite good for a shot blocking center), and mostly just play average or better defense. Scoring is not the issue for the Blue Devils this season. Keeping the Demon Deacons from torching the basket from deep is the main key.

    Let's Go Duke!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    If possible, get Doral Moore in foul trouble (he's only averaging 5.3 fouls per 40 minutes, which is quite good for a shot blocking center)...
    Thanks, DBA and CDu for your scouting reports. One minor quibble: 5.3 fouls per 40 isn't absolutely terrible for a shot-blocking center, but I wouldn't characterize it as "quite good," either.

    Moore has 3.9 blocks per 40 and 5.3 fouls per 40. For comparison's sake, here are the top 6 shot blockers (total blocks) in the country:

    Ajdin Penava (Marshall), 6.2 bp40; 4.7 fp40
    Mo Bamba (Texas), 6.1 bp40; 4.1 fp40
    Reggie Lynch (Minn), 4.1 bp40; 2.7 fp40
    Anas Mahmoud (Louisville), 4.0 bp40; 5.0 fp40
    Tariq Owens (St. Johns), 3.6 bp40; 2.8 fp40
    Paschal Chukwu (Syracuse), 3.3 bp40; 2.9 fp40

    All of them with lower fouls per 40 than Moore, most of them a lot lower.

    Here are the top 3 shot blockers on Duke's team (again, total blocks):

    Wendell Carter, 3.0 bp40; 4.7 fp40
    Marvin Bagley, 1.3 bp40; 2.4 fp40
    Marques Bolden, 3.1 bp40; 5.1 fp40

    Again, all three with lower fouls per 40 than Moore, though Wendell and Marques aren't much lower, and Marvin isn't really that productive a shotblocker.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    Thanks, DBA and CDu for your scouting reports. One minor quibble: 5.3 fouls per 40 isn't absolutely terrible for a shot-blocking center, but I wouldn't characterize it as "quite good," either.

    Moore has 3.9 blocks per 40 and 5.3 fouls per 40. For comparison's sake, here are the top 6 shot blockers (total blocks) in the country:

    Ajdin Penava (Marshall), 6.2 bp40; 4.7 fp40
    Mo Bamba (Texas), 6.1 bp40; 4.1 fp40
    Reggie Lynch (Minn), 4.1 bp40; 2.7 fp40
    Anas Mahmoud (Louisville), 4.0 bp40; 5.0 fp40
    Tariq Owens (St. Johns), 3.6 bp40; 2.8 fp40
    Paschal Chukwu (Syracuse), 3.3 bp40; 2.9 fp40

    All of them with lower fouls per 40 than Moore, most of them a lot lower.

    Here are the top 3 shot blockers on Duke's team (again, total blocks):

    Wendell Carter, 3.0 bp40; 4.7 fp40
    Marvin Bagley, 1.3 bp40; 2.4 fp40
    Marques Bolden, 3.1 bp40; 5.1 fp40

    Again, all three with lower fouls per 40 than Moore, though Wendell and Marques aren't much lower, and Marvin isn't really that productive a shotblocker.
    Thanks for the clarification, Kedsy. No, Moore is not the best of most proficient shot blocker in CBB. But he's put to the test a ton and is often that only big on then court. I was expecting that he would be fouling a lot more than he has. Then again, he's only playing about 22 minutes a game. It's not clear that he would be able to keep up with Duke if we decided to push the tempo. Wake plays at a relatively modest pace this season. Could he do much to keep Carter or Bagley run to the rim in transition? I think Moore is playing better than he has previously but is only ok at best and we should expect that interior defense will be an issue for Wake.

  13. #13
    TV Stations and Free Stream:
    http://theacc.com/sports/2017/12/9/a...b-180113a.aspx

    Blackout Map:


    Options based on location:

    Black:
    -On TV via station from list linked above
    -Online via link posted above

    Green:
    -On TV via station from list linked above
    -On TV via ESPN College Extra (channel assignments not available yet)
    -Online via link posted above
    -Online via ACC Network Extra section of WatchESPN

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    NC Raised, DC Resident
    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    Unfortunately Wake isn't all that much more of a test than Pitt at this point. Losses to Liberty and Drake aren't exactly losing to Wagner (9F), but they are bad losses. More was expected from Wake. Probably just more time for Duke to work on their defense in the safe confines of Cameron.
    Wofford. At home.
    #NeverForget
    Haters gonna hate.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    and it's almost entirely on the offensive end. defenses are ranked nearly identically. should be a good test.
    But we shouldn't care about the defense of the opponent. We have the most potent offense in the country.

    I'm worried about their O. Like you said, Wake is so much better than Pitt on that end (#46 vs Pitt's #221). Can we make stops? Can we keep the intensity for 20+ minutes (I'm not going to say 40 min as that's not happening)?

    If the collective scores of both teams is under 165, I like our chances to win.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    But we shouldn't care about the defense of the opponent. We have the most potent offense in the country.

    I'm worried about their O. Like you said, Wake is so much better than Pitt on that end (#46 vs Pitt's #221). Can we make stops? Can we keep the intensity for 20+ minutes (I'm not going to say 40 min as that's not happening)?

    If the collective scores of both teams is under 165, I like our chances to win.
    Yeah, we're saying the same thing. Our offense ought to be fine regardless of opponent...but the fact that the opposing offense is leaps better is why it's a good test.
    "If you don't address the things you're not doing well when you're winning the winning will eventually stop."

    -David Cutcliffe

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    Yeah, we're saying the same thing. Our offense ought to be fine regardless of opponent...but the fact that the opposing offense is leaps better is why it's a good test.
    Exactly. Not disagreeing with you at all. On the surface, Wake is a crappy team. Against Duke - which is all O / no D - they are a threat because of their solid O.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    WF is a lot better than Pitt.
    Not only that, in all of their losses, they've played pretty tough.

    They only have two losses by more than 10 points...vs #14(RPI) Tenn and #236 Liberty. Other than that they've lost by 4,5,6,8,2 and 3...and they did beat Syracuse.

    Right now they are just having a tough time getting over that hump against the better teams.

    Transitive property is in play:
    State beat Duke by 11. UNC-G beat State by 5. Wake Beat UNC-G by 6. Therefore Wake will beat Duke by 22.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Santa Clara, CA
    Quote Originally Posted by English View Post
    Wofford. At home.
    #NeverForget
    Sorry. Never will forget Wagner either.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kako View Post
    Sorry. Never will forget Wagner either.
    I'm sorry ... that's a ridiculous comparison.

    Wofford beat a North Carolina team that was ranked No. 5 in the nation (No. 4 by the coaches) on their home floor.

    In 1983, Wagner beat an unranked Duke team -- one that was en route to an 11-17 finish -- on its home floor.

    It was an upset for Duke to lose to a bad Wagner team. But that was a pretty weak Duke team too,

    There's no comparison with a top 10 UNC team (even if they don't end up top 10, they will almost certainly end the season ranked) losing at home to Wofford.

    Interesting that you have to go back 35 years to find a Duke loss to try and compare with the Cheats' upset loss.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 216
    Last Post: 01-28-2017, 06:30 PM
  2. Replies: 157
    Last Post: 01-07-2015, 11:57 PM
  3. Replies: 113
    Last Post: 03-05-2014, 10:06 PM
  4. Replies: 243
    Last Post: 01-30-2013, 11:14 PM
  5. MBB: Duke vs. Wake Forest Pre-Game and In-Game Thread
    By rotogod00 in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 90
    Last Post: 01-22-2011, 07:12 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •