Professional Advice

[CrazyNotCrazie]

Resumes really should include month and year of the start and end of employment. If I see a resume without that, I will heavily scrutinize in order to see what the candidate might be hiding. Worst case, the individual won't get an interview. I probably have plenty of other candidates and can't interview everyone. That one item could be disqualifying.

To each his own. I personally find the month to be useless clutter and not something I focus on at all when looking at a resume. And this is how I have structured my resume and have never been asked about it (I work in finance in NY and my current and last employer were globally recognized firms). As I said, I 100% recommend complete honesty but this way it doesn't jump off the page as much. The key is that now that he is making this quick move, it is that much more important to plan to stay for a while.

I know others who would advocate for leaving the short term position off altogether. This is more practical in some situations than others and one can debate the ethics of this too.

[swood1000]

I know others who would advocate for leaving the short term position off altogether. This is more practical in some situations than others and one can debate the ethics of this too.

What is debatable about that not being straightforward deceit since the application asks for “all” and it is left off in order to mislead, the same as leaving off a job that will supply a poor reference? Furthermore it would be discovered when the prior job is contacted to verify the information and reason for departure. Even if it was not, he would thereafter have to worry that in an unguarded moment he might mention something about the omitted job and could be fired (who knows the attitude of some firms about duplicity), leaving him then with a résumé entry involving a job from which he was fired for dishonesty.

[swood1000]

In your interviews with the old firm be ready for being asked questions involving
 

a. Can they count on you only until your next offer of a 15% increase in salary? If longer than that, how long, and why does the same not apply to your current job?

b. What are the reasons you have for moving/staying, and what is the relative weight of each component?

c. Didn’t you consider the inconvenience of the additional commute time before accepting your current job? Maybe your satisfaction with the offered position will be similarly short-lived. Are you capricious?

d. When you were hired at your current position did they have a right to expect that you would not leave immediately upon being trained? Do you feel guilty about leaving so soon? Why or why not? If yes, what are your criteria for being willing to leave anyway? (If not, they may wonder whether you are simply not capable of feeling guilt. Are you a sociopath?)

f. If they make you a formal offer of the amount discussed are you prepared to accept it or are you going to ask for a counteroffer from your current company?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

In your interviews with the old firm be ready for being asked questions involving
 

a. Can they count on you only until your next offer of a 15% increase in salary? If longer than that, how long, and why does the same not apply to your current job?

b. What are the reasons you have for moving/staying, and what is the relative weight of each component?

c. Didn’t you consider the inconvenience of the additional commute time before accepting your current job? Maybe your satisfaction with the offered position will be similarly short-lived. Are you capricious?

d. When you were hired at your current position did they have a right to expect that you would not leave immediately upon being trained? Do you feel guilty about leaving so soon? Why or why not? If yes, what are your criteria for being willing to leave anyway? (If not, they may wonder whether you are simply not capable of feeling guilt. Are you a sociopath?)

f. If they make you a formal offer of the amount discussed are you prepared to accept it or are you going to ask for a counteroffer from your current company?

Those sound like wildly aggressive questions for a company that approached you.

[Jeffrey]

In your interviews with the old firm be ready for being asked questions involving
 

a. Can they count on you only until your next offer of a 15% increase in salary? If longer than that, how long, and why does the same not apply to your current job?

b. What are the reasons you have for moving/staying, and what is the relative weight of each component?

c. Didn’t you consider the inconvenience of the additional commute time before accepting your current job? Maybe your satisfaction with the offered position will be similarly short-lived. Are you capricious?

d. When you were hired at your current position did they have a right to expect that you would not leave immediately upon being trained? Do you feel guilty about leaving so soon? Why or why not? If yes, what are your criteria for being willing to leave anyway? (If not, they may wonder whether you are simply not capable of feeling guilt. Are you a sociopath?)

f. If they make you a formal offer of the amount discussed are you prepared to accept it or are you going to ask for a counteroffer from your current company?

I'd be most concerned about question "e". Those hidden questions can be tough.

[swood1000]

Those sound like wildly aggressive questions for a company that approached you.

Yes, but they are meant to represent questions the interviewers may have in their minds, not the wording that they would use. I would expect those who have been making the offers not to ask questions in this area at all (except maybe to be ready in case "somebody asks"), but others, higher up in the company, who interview him, may feel worried that he wouldn’t be a good hire unless they can see that he will be committed to the company. These questions are just different ways of getting at that. Of course nobody would ask him if he is a sociopath but if he expressed no misgivings about leaving the company so soon some might wonder why. Nor would he be asked if he is capricious, but I can imagine more artfully phrased questions designed to uncover the same information.

[swood1000]

I'd be most concerned about question "e". Those hidden questions can be tough.

Question "e" was combined with current "d" and I wasn't using the "Numbered list" option because it won't allow spaces between the questions.

[Jeffrey]

This may be another example of a bunch of old guys still debating the best approach to a decision a millennial made yesterday.

[swood1000]

This may be another example of a bunch of old guys still debating the best approach to a decision a millennial made yesterday.

But I don't think he's had his interview yet.

[PackMan97]

This may be another example of a bunch of old guys still debating the best approach to a decision a millennial made yesterday.

Your right, instead that millennial brought his mom to the interview.

[duke79]

Your right, instead that millennial brought his mom to the interview.

LOL....harsh but very funny! In reality, the millennial would let his mom go to the interview alone and the son would stay home to text his similarly-unemployed friends from his smart phone, whose bill is being for by his parents!

[CrazyNotCrazie]

In your interviews with the old firm be ready for being asked questions involving
 

a. Can they count on you only until your next offer of a 15% increase in salary? If longer than that, how long, and why does the same not apply to your current job?

b. What are the reasons you have for moving/staying, and what is the relative weight of each component?

c. Didn’t you consider the inconvenience of the additional commute time before accepting your current job? Maybe your satisfaction with the offered position will be similarly short-lived. Are you capricious?

d. When you were hired at your current position did they have a right to expect that you would not leave immediately upon being trained? Do you feel guilty about leaving so soon? Why or why not? If yes, what are your criteria for being willing to leave anyway? (If not, they may wonder whether you are simply not capable of feeling guilt. Are you a sociopath?)

f. If they make you a formal offer of the amount discussed are you prepared to accept it or are you going to ask for a counteroffer from your current company?

I think that thematically these are very important questions to be prepared for. I think that swood was just trying to get his thoughts out so wasn't intentionally being snarky - if someone who you might end up reporting to asked them this bluntly I would likely run quickly away. But they are definitely things you should think about and be ready to address. The bottom line is that you need to have your story straight as to why you are leaving very quickly. I think you have generally explained the reasons well upthread, but be sure to be 100% prepared.

[Turk]

In your interviews with the old firm be ready for being asked questions involving
 

a. Can they count on you only until your next offer of a 15% increase in salary? If longer than that, how long, and why does the same not apply to your current job?

b. What are the reasons you have for moving/staying, and what is the relative weight of each component?

c. Didn’t you consider the inconvenience of the additional commute time before accepting your current job? Maybe your satisfaction with the offered position will be similarly short-lived. Are you capricious?

d. When you were hired at your current position did they have a right to expect that you would not leave immediately upon being trained? Do you feel guilty about leaving so soon? Why or why not? If yes, what are your criteria for being willing to leave anyway? (If not, they may wonder whether you are simply not capable of feeling guilt. Are you a sociopath?)

f. If they make you a formal offer of the amount discussed are you prepared to accept it or are you going to ask for a counteroffer from your current company?

If someone ever asked if I was "capricious" or a "sociopath" in a job interview, I would reply, "Who do you think you are? If this is how you talk to your job candidates, I can't imagine how you treat your employees, but I doubt it's good. You obviously don't know much about high-performing organizations. I made a mistake coming in here and I withdraw my application. Good day to you, sir / ma'am."

My days of groveling before some interviewer desperately begging for whatever loose change might fall my way are long gone.

P.S. Reilly already handled this upthread brilliantly; go back and re-read it. The answer in each case is "I got a puppy". Works for me.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think that thematically these are very important questions to be prepared for. I think that swood was just trying to get his thoughts out so wasn't intentionally being snarky - if someone who you might end up reporting to asked them this bluntly I would likely run quickly away. But they are definitely things you should think about and be ready to address. The bottom line is that you need to have your story straight as to why you are leaving very quickly. I think you have generally explained the reasons well upthread, but be sure to be 100% prepared.

I would still be appalled if a company that approached me conducted the interview in this manner.

[swood1000]

After the offer is solid and you decide to accept it, ask the former manager for some fatherly advice. What would he advise you to do? Maybe he’ll agree with the move, thus freeing you from guilt. Also you'll then be able to say that even he advised you to accept the offer.

[Jeffrey]

But I don't think he's had his interview yet.

Why would there be an interview? He/she has worked there recently and they've made him/her an offer.

[swood1000]

Why would there be an interview? He/she has worked there recently and they've made him/her an offer.

See this post.

[left_hook_lacey]

After the offer is solid and you decide to accept it, ask the former manager for some fatherly advice. What would he advise you to do? Maybe he’ll agree with the move, thus freeing you from guilt. Also you'll then be able to say that even he advised you to accept the offer.

This is actually a pretty smart move. I think I will. If he feels empowered in my decision to go, it may make him go from feeling betrayed, to feeling like he's helping me advance. Again.

So the gentlemen that are vying to get me back in the door called me Friday evening. They let me know what was discussed in the managers meeting they always have when discussing potential new hires. When my name came up, these were the feelings...

Technology Transfer Global ops Manager: "I think he is extremely smart and results focused. He knows our products inside and out. The only reason he left in the first place was to get more money. He had been promised that opportunity here, but couldn't get a guarantee on when or how much. So he bolted. I would have too. Now he's back, and you're going to have to pay him. He has my vote, and if he gets in the door, I could see him sitting in any of your chairs in 3-4 years."

Quality Manager: "He has my vote. I was disappointed when he left. He was the first person to embrace our statistical process control software and apply it to make improvements. He did it without being asked and taught himself. We have people here now that still don't know how to use it.

Site Manager "I never really got to see his work, he left shortly after I arrived here. I've heard nothing but good things, but I never saw anything personally that wow'd me, but like I said, we weren't exposed to each other very much before he left.

Site HR Manager "I want to see some humility from him during the interview process."

The last one from the HR manager really baffled me. Humility? They came to me. I'm not coming in with my hat in my hand begging for a job to get off the streets. I'm exploring a potential opportunity for advancement at a company I'm familiar with. If we can't come to an agreement, no harm no foul. But humility? I'm an humble person by nature, but I'm not sure what he's asking for there. That guy is kind of a jerk anyway. He has a holier than thou attitude that I've always just ignored.

I asked the guys that called me if the HR manager knew or remembered that I left on my own fruition? They said yes, and they spoke up for me, saying that I left on good terms with everyone, and that the only reason I left was for advancement.

Interview is Wed. We shall see.

[DukieInKansas]

Good luck with the interview and decision process.

[Jeffrey]

See this post.

I was confused by the original post:

I've turned them down twice, but they are now making offers I can't ignore.