MBB: Duke 78, Southern 61 Post-Game Thread

[azzefkram]

I guess it's good to get a game like this out of your system against a team like Southern. Everyone not named Wendell (and to a lesser extent, Marvin) looked a bit off. I found it interesting that Marques was glued to the bench in the first half but seemed to get a fair amount of play in the second. Alex appears quicker than I thought he'd be and he definitely expends a boatload of effort, if not exactly effective effort. Trevon made some nice passes that should have been converted but was a bit wilder than the past 3 games.

Coach K didn't look to thrilled on the bench and I can't imagine it was pleasant in the locker room at halftime. Overall, it seemed like the type of game a young team might have after a big emotional win.

[DukieInBrasil]

I disagree. He did mostly what I assume the coaches wanted him to do. On defense he hedged a lot up top which resulted in a couple of wide open lanes. The third time that happened the Duke player on the baseline stepped up and stopped the drive unlike the first two times. He did what he was asked.

He also was aggressive down low on offense. 2 rebounds, 4 points and no fouls in 11 minutes. He effected the game when he came in. I'll take that as a plus. Was that comparable, better or worse that DeLaurier's stat line?

you think 2 rebounds in 11 minutes is impressive in any way? It's less than 8 per 40 minutes, and quite sub-par in my book.

Aside from that, i'm glad Duval made a 3 finally. I'm also glad that Carter and Bagley showed up.
Carter was truly impressive. I'm also glad that the effects of the eye poke in the MSU game are apparently gone.

[jv001]

After watching last night's game, I wonder if zone is going to be our main defense. We forced turnovers in the zone that we didn't in the man2man. Time and Coach K will tell. Grayson looked sluggish last night and he didn't have the facial expression we saw in the other 3 games. The first thing I thought of was does he have strep or something else that would bring him down to us human level. I really thought Wendell was our best player last night. He showed why he was highly rated coming out of high school. As for Southern, they played as well as they're going to play this season. They shot 3's as if they had nothing to lose. The game plan to foul our bigs was a great one and I expect to see it a lot this season. Better practice those free throws guys. On to Furman. GoDuke!

[DaleDuke7]

I disagree. He did mostly what I assume the coaches wanted him to do. On defense he hedged a lot up top which resulted in a couple of wide open lanes. The third time that happened the Duke player on the baseline stepped up and stopped the drive unlike the first two times. He did what he was asked.

He also was aggressive down low on offense. 2 rebounds, 4 points and no fouls in 11 minutes. He effected the game when he came in. I'll take that as a plus. Was that comparable, better or worse that DeLaurier's stat line?

As we all know, the stat line doesn’t tell the full story. It doesn’t tell how many times Bolden was slow to react on defense or just plain out of position. With that said, I’ll still take Delaurier’s stat line. He had an assist, an emphatic block, and also 2 rebounds. He didn’t score on one shot attempt, but to me, that’s better that 1-3 for Bolden, considering the team shot at a 44.6 FG%. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad Bolden is trying and being aggressive, and maybe it will help him in the long run. I just think in this game, and so far this season, he has been ineffective, and more of a liability than an asset.

[sagegrouse]

As we all know, the stat line doesn’t tell the full story. It doesn’t tell how many times Bolden was slow to react on defense or just plain out of position. With that said, I’ll still take Delaurier’s stat line. He had an assist, an emphatic block, and also 2 rebounds. He didn’t score on one shot attempt, but to me, that’s better that 1-3 for Bolden, considering the team shot at a 44.6 FG%. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad Bolden is trying and being aggressive, and maybe it will help him in the long run. I just think in this game, and so far this season, he has been ineffective, and more of a liability than an asset.

I am pulling for Marques. Last night, there was a clear attempt to involve him in the offense. He did some good things, and I am hoping to see a big improvement over the next few games. We need him, and I want him to do well, both here and in the pros.

The only problem I see with Grayson, Gary and Trevon is that there is only one ball used in the game -- we have a lot of surplus offense.

Kindly,

Sage

[SkyBrickey]

Yep, GMan was talking about Kentucky.



I would take it all the way back to Elton Brand. Wendell is bigger than Shelden, more explosive off the ground, more fluid with his post moves, a shooter with more long-distance range, and a much better passer than Shelden. However, I would not object hard with anyone taking a retired jersey great like Shelden over Wendell, who has only played 4 games so far. (But Wendell's certainly better than Shelden as a freshman.)

Freshman stat lines:

Shelden: 19 min, 8 pts, 6 reb, 1.6 blk, 0.5 ast
Brand: ? min, 13 pts, 7 reb, 1.3 blk, 0.5 ast
Boozer: 23 min, 13 pts, 6 reb, 0.7 blk, 1.1 ast

I think freshman to freshman, Wendell is on-track to perform at or above the level of all these guys. We're only 4 games in against below average competition, but he's currently averaging 24 min, 13 pts, 9 reb, 3.3 blk, and 2.3 ast. The blocks will likely come down, but the other stats could hold against higher level competition. I think he's likely a better rebounder and a better passer than all 3 of those guys at the same age and that's saying a lot.

Unfortunately, we won't ever get to see Wendell's sophomore year vs Brand's breakout year or Wendell's junior year vs Boozer's breakout year...

[dukefan_828]

Yep, GMan was talking about Kentucky.



I would take it all the way back to Elton Brand. Wendell is bigger than Shelden, more explosive off the ground, more fluid with his post moves, a shooter with more long-distance range, and a much better passer than Shelden. However, I would not object hard with anyone taking a retired jersey great like Shelden over Wendell, who has only played 4 games so far. (But Wendell's certainly better than Shelden as a freshman.)

Thanks for the conf. As for wendell and the "Lord" i'm 21 so i had only just turned 8 when we made it to the final 4. I was already a die hard and i remember running out of my parents house to my grandmas crying after the game (she lived next door). Anyways my point is i didn't want to sound dumb by saying i believe wendell is more polished offensively and way more crafty with his foot work then shelden was so thanks again for your confirmation of our personal opinions. Either way not a bad thing to be compared to two of our most talented big men of all time.

[dukefan_828]

Freshman stat lines:

Shelden: 19 min, 8 pts, 6 reb, 1.6 blk, 0.5 ast
Brand: ? min, 13 pts, 7 reb, 1.3 blk, 0.5 ast
Boozer: 23 min, 13 pts, 6 reb, 0.7 blk, 1.1 ast

I think freshman to freshman, Wendell is on-track to perform at or above the level of all these guys. We're only 4 games in against below average competition, .

Not to be a donkey but there was that huge game we played Tuesday against the #2 team in the country who also have some of the most talented big men in the land and carter came to play there as well. So it gives me a better feeling that he's not just bullying lesser opponents he is a true power house who i count on to be consistent for us all year as he seems very poised (i.e all the playing time with 4 fouls against Mich St knowing how pivotal it was for him to stay on the floor, not your typical freshman)! I liked the points and comparisons you made as well, Go Duke!

[CDu]

Freshman stat lines:

Shelden: 19 min, 8 pts, 6 reb, 1.6 blk, 0.5 ast
Brand: ? min, 13 pts, 7 reb, 1.3 blk, 0.5 ast
Boozer: 23 min, 13 pts, 6 reb, 0.7 blk, 1.1 ast

I think freshman to freshman, Wendell is on-track to perform at or above the level of all these guys. We're only 4 games in against below average competition, but he's currently averaging 24 min, 13 pts, 9 reb, 3.3 blk, and 2.3 ast. The blocks will likely come down, but the other stats could hold against higher level competition. I think he's likely a better rebounder and a better passer than all 3 of those guys at the same age and that's saying a lot.

Unfortunately, we won't ever get to see Wendell's sophomore year vs Brand's breakout year or Wendell's junior year vs Boozer's breakout year...

Brand was actually about as good as a frosh as he was as a soph. Similar fg%, similar points and rebounds per minute. He just played fewer minutes (23.5). The difference between his sophomore and freshman years on a national scale is that his teammates got better, with Avery, Battier, and Carrawell improving and adding Maggette.

I do think that Brand is the best physical/skillset comp for Carter. Not that Carter is as good, but that is the closest comp I can see.

[SkyBrickey]

And just for fun, here's Laettner's freshman stat line.

17 min, 9 pts, 5 reb, 0.8 blk, 1.2 ast

[OldPhiKap]

And just for fun, here's Laettner's freshman stat line.

17 min, 9 pts, 5 reb, 0.8 blk, 1.2 ast

Phhht. Never amout to nuthin’

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

And just for fun, here's Laettner's freshman stat line.

17 min, 9 pts, 5 reb, 0.8 blk, 1.2 ast

Wow. That's something, isn't it?

[uh_no]

Duke practiced at 7:30am on Friday.

is that unusual for a saturday in season?

[UrinalCake]

Laettner, Sheldon, Elton, Boozer all played in a different era where the expectations for freshmen were vastly different. They came in and joined teams with multiple upperclassmen and weren’t expected to be the focal points of the team. So it’s not really a fair comparison.

[Saratoga2]

is that unusual for a saturday in season?

Coach K made a point in his presser about the lack of practice time available prior to the Southern game. Maybe the lack of sharpness by the team was an artifact of not getting to practice. Certainly the shooting seemed off. They are in a stretch of 9 games in 20 days along with travel, so this will be a test for the team. We will see how they show up for the Furman game.

[SkyBrickey]

Laettner, Sheldon, Elton, Boozer all played in a different era where the expectations for freshmen were vastly different. They came in and joined teams with multiple upperclassmen and weren’t expected to be the focal points of the team. So it’s not really a fair comparison.

I think the per 40 minute are more relevant. Carter is likely to get more freshman minutes than all these guys, so you'd expect his stats to be higher. However, he is at best the third scoring option on the team, maybe fourth - probably similar to a freshman Brand in that sense.

[ChillinDuke]

I'm not too concerned about this one. Seemed clear to me that we were working on our m2m, which equally clearly needs work. I think that was the main goal, and as a result of the defense being shaky our offense was sort of off.

That plus MSU as our last game. And Grayson going 0fer.

All in all, we won. Somewhat comfortably. It was never a serious concern.

I'm OK with it.

- Chillin

[OldPhiKap]

I think the per 40 minute are more relevant. Carter is likely to get more freshman minutes than all these guys, so you'd expect his stats to be higher. However, he is at best the third scoring option on the team, maybe fourth - probably similar to a freshman Brand in that sense.

True. Sad as it is, we should probably compare the freshmen to these past stars’ final seasons since, well, it likely is for these frosh.

[CDu]

I think the per 40 minute are more relevant. Carter is likely to get more freshman minutes than all these guys, so you'd expect his stats to be higher. However, he is at best the third scoring option on the team, maybe fourth - probably similar to a freshman Brand in that sense.

Brand wasn’t the third or fourth scoring option as a frosh. He was one of three fairly equally utilized lead scorers along with McLeod and Langdon. His points per minute were second of those three, and his numbers were dragged down a bit post injury.

[duke4ever19]

I'm not too concerned about this one. Seemed clear to me that we were working on our m2m, which equally clearly needs work. I think that was the main goal, and as a result of the defense being shaky our offense was sort of off.

That plus MSU as our last game. And Grayson going 0fer.

All in all, we won. Somewhat comfortably. It was never a serious concern.

I'm OK with it.

- Chillin

I agree. Gminski even made a couple references to us featuring our more traditional man-to-man rather than zone.

The typical UNC fan response to any close wins by their team early in the year is that "Roy loves experimenting. It was a teaching moment, so the final score is deceptive" etc. Well, there's sometimes some validity to that excuse and I think that is what K was doing against Southern. Sure, the effort by the team wasn't nearly what it should have been, but the goal was to work on man-to-man defense and Southern was the perfect team to do that with.