2017-18 NCAA Men's NOT-ACC Basketball

[budwom]

Sigh, do we have to go through this again?

Once again, the 10-team Big 12 is being praised for not having bad teams at the bottom. How do you compare that with a 15-team ACC that has more good teams than the Big 12, but also a few bad ones at the bottom.

Check Pomeroy (the ratings I respect most).

The ACC has No. 3 Virginia, No. 4 Duke, No. 9 UNC, No. 15 Clemson and No. 25 Notre Dame. The three of the top 10 and five of the top 25.

The "brutal" Big 12 has two in the top 10 (No. 5 Texas Tech and No. 10 Kansas) and just two more in the top 25 (No. 12 West Virginia and No. 20 Oklahoma).

Furthermore, the ACC has 10 teams in the top 50 -- the Big 12 has eight. The ACC has 13 teams in the top 100 ... the Big 12 puts all 10 in the top 100 -- barely (Iowa State is No. 100). In fact, a little flip flop could change that soon as Georgia Tech, climbing rapidly since regaining its health, is up to No. 101. They get in and only hapless Pitt is out of the top 100 (they are at 207).

You could say, according to Pomeroy, that the Big 12 doesn't have a team as bad as Pitt ... but the Big 12 doesn't have a team as good as Virginia or Duke. The ACC has more good teams.

BTW, if you go by the RPI, the ACC's superiority is even more pronounced.

The ACC has the top three teams in the NCAA's favorite tool -- No. 1 Duke, No. 2 UNC and No. 3 Virginia (plus No. 7 Clemson, No. 16 Louisville, No. 24 Miami) -- the top 3, four of the top 7 and six of the top 25.

The Big 12 has No. 8 Kansas and No. 9 Oklahoma, plus No. 14 Texas Tech, No. 20 West Virginia and No. 22 TCU -- four ACC teams ranked before any Big 12 team

The ACC has eight top 50 teams (to six for the Big 12) and 12 top 100 teams (to 10 for the Big 12). Again, no terrible teams in the Big 12, but not nearly as many good teams.

The myth of Big 12 superiority is the product of being a small, well-balanced league. I'd be more apt to accept it if the Big 12 didn't &^%$ in its pants during NCAA Tournament play every year.

I don't really care who ranks which conference where, but your condescending (was the sigh really necessary) response to Mr. Evans is not altogether convincing. Sagarin has the Big 12 as the toughest conference, on average, by a decent margin, with the ACC in second place. So Mr. Evans' assertion isn't quite as outlandish as you'd like to think.

[budwom]

^ and Paul Sabin, the ESPN Analytics guy, took what he felt was an objective look and also came up with Big 12 #1, ACC #2, fwiw.

[brlftz]

...Sagarin has the Big 12 as the toughest conference, on average, by a decent margin, with the ACC in second place. ...

I'm not trying to take a stand either way, but would like to point out that average ranking of teams in the conference isn't an argument against Oly's point, which is that the ACC's standing is depressed by the ACC having room for more crappy teams at the bottom due to being a bigger conference. If you look at the top 10 from each it might be a different story.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

We all need to start paying attention to Purdue. That team is strong and balanced.

[curtis325]

We all need to start paying attention to Perdue. That team is strong and balanced.

Too many fowls.

[AGDukesky]

We all need to start paying attention to Purdue. That team is strong and balanced.

Purdue is almost dominating the Big Ten as badly as the ACC did in the Challenge...

[budwom]

I'm not trying to take a stand either way, but would like to point out that average ranking of teams in the conference isn't an argument against Oly's point, which is that the ACC's standing is depressed by the ACC having room for more crappy teams at the bottom due to being a bigger conference. If you look at the top 10 from each it might be a different story.

I hear ya, and also don't take a stand either way, but Jason's original point (which drew a dramatic sigh from Oly) was that the Big12 is better, and I'm only noting that a few analytical geeks agree with him, arguments about the respective tops and bottoms of each league notwithstanding...in other words, his comment merited debate (IMHO) but not condescension.

On other matters we should feel free to approach Jason with condescension...

[sagegrouse]

We definitely ended up with a favorable draw for our ACC schedule this season. Kind of the opposite of last season, which seemed brutal, though I can't verify that claim with data. I just remember it being a grueling schedule.

Yep, it was -- and, as a consequence, this year is far, far easier. We flip-flop home games from year to year. Plus, we played Miami and FSU twice last year,, therefore, we move to other teams for two games -- VT and Pitt, this year.

[BandAlum83]

Watching ok/ok st.

Trae Young is the real deal. He looks like Curry out there. Right now he has 38/7/5. And 8/16 on 3pt

He does have 7 turnovers. Tight game down to the wire

[mr shadow 008]

Watching ok/ok st.

Trae Young is the real deal. He looks like Curry out there. Right now he has 38/7/5. And 8/16 on 3pt

He does have 7 turnovers. Tight game down to the wire

Ended with 48 points and 8 assists but wanna take a wild guess as to how many shots he took??? He took 38! shots with 19 of those being three pointers. There are teams that don’t even take 19 threes a game.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Ended with 48 points and 8 assists but wanna take a wild guess as to how many shots he took??? He took 38! shots with 19 of those being three pointers. There are teams that don’t even take 19 threes a game.

Are we doing that thing again where we pretend that 48 points on 38 shots isn't really, really good?

Sincerely asking - I can't read the tone

[mr shadow 008]

48 points is fantastic sure. There are many players in the country could score 48 in a game if they took 38 shots. How many points do you think Bagley would have in a game if he took 38 shots just curious? In Grayson’s 37 point game against msu wanna take a guess how many shots he took? He only took 20 that’s much more impressive to me than a 48 Point night while jacking up almost 40 shots.

[arnie]

Are we doing that thing again where we pretend that 48 points on 38 shots isn't really, really good?

Sincerely asking - I can't read the tone

ESPN shows he made 14 of 39 shots. The 12 FTs distorts the points per shot attempt. He’s great, but 30 something % shooting isn’t great.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

ESPN shows he made 14 of 39 shots. The 12 FTs distorts the points per shot attempt. He’s great, but 30 something % shooting isn’t great.

It isn't great, no. And it's a lot of shots. But it's also a lot of points.

If you shot 50% from the field for two pointers on 40 shots, you would have 40 points. By my rudimentary math, that's decent.

You don't score 50 points shooting 15 shots.

[mr shadow 008]

ESPN shows he made 14 of 39 shots. The 12 FTs distorts the points per shot attempt. He’s great, but 30 something % shooting isn’t great.

Part of my point. Obviously free throws are part of the game and I commend him for hitting 12/12 from the line but you take those free throws away and he scores 36 on 39 shots. That’s the definition of inefficient.

[Wander]

I think Trae Young won NPOY last night. He promised everyone he would make adjustments in his game after the two losses where he took 60 shots combined, and then actually followed through and scored 26 points on 9 shots in a win against Kansas. I'm sure OU will take a few more losses along the way, but with that kind of attitude from Trae Young I highly doubt they're going to fall apart to the point where he won't win it.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think Trae Young won NPOY last night. He promised everyone he would make adjustments in his game after the two losses where he took 60 shots combined, and then actually followed through and scored 26 points on 9 shots in a win against Kansas. I'm sure OU will take a few more losses along the way, but with that kind of attitude from Trae Young I highly doubt they're going to fall apart to the point where he won't win it.

Couple that with Marvin Bagley playing three games under his average, and it's safe to say Trae Young has widened the margin by a fair amount.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Couple that with Marvin Bagley playing three games under his average, and it's safe to say Trae Young has widened the margin by a fair amount.

Good thing there is still a LOT of ball to play, with more and more eyeballs for the next two months.

[El_Diablo]

You don't score 50 points shooting 15 shots.

J.J. once came pretty close (40 points on 13 shots): http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...meId=260280150

[InSpades]

I think Trae Young won NPOY last night. He promised everyone he would make adjustments in his game after the two losses where he took 60 shots combined, and then actually followed through and scored 26 points on 9 shots in a win against Kansas. I'm sure OU will take a few more losses along the way, but with that kind of attitude from Trae Young I highly doubt they're going to fall apart to the point where he won't win it.

Not ready to give anyone an award in January but...

Super impressed w/ how Young adjusted from his past 2 games. It is impressive that he has shown he's able to carry almost the entire scoring load for his team... much more impressive when he realizes the team does better when he doesn't have to do that. To get your teammates involved, pick your spots and get a huge win over Kansas is much more impressive than scoring 48 in a losing effort. He's obviously super talented and if Marvin loses NPotY to him then so be it.