The World reacts to decades of sexual predators

[Billy Dat]

The Louis CK information is disappointing. I mean, obviously all this stuff is disappointing, but he seemed like a pretty grounded fellow.

I feel as though whatever good is coming out of all this festering mess coming to light is immediately negated by how depressing it is to realize how very deep all this runs.

Utterly disgusting.

There's been talk about Louie for a while. This article was out in the summer, way before any of the Weinstein stuff
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/6-di...041530814.html

It is really interesting to watch these scandals unfold and wonder what creates a tipping point moment?

In regards to Kevin Spacey, who is accused of sexually harassing/molesting both grown and underage men...I think about the "hiding in plain sight" tradition of faculty/student sexual peccadilloes that happen at schools, but seem more common at exclusive private schools, especially boarding schools. I recall the play/movie, "The History Boys" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_Boys_(film) - which has, as a running theme - the sexual harassment of male students by their teachers and sexual pursuit of teacher by student and vice versa. The movie doesn't treat these situations as scandalous...more like common. Considering the ages of the students, such activity would be illegal in the United States. All that is to say, this play/movie didn't set off any alarm bells about these things happening in society. When a similar scandal broke at Horace Mann school in NYC a few years ago, it didn't create waves of this magnitude. In fact, I am sure this is happening all over the place at schools - but no one is talking about it.

Is it just that Weinstein is so powerful in his field, unlike Bill Cosby, that this has created such an uproar?

I am glad that these things are being brought out...but, like the current college basketball scandals, it's interesting what makes the powder keg blow and what doesn't?

What's the next "everyone knows it's happening but no one will do anything about it" issue?

[killerleft]

I miss the TV show Fringe, one of their episodes set on the "other" earth, had a Back to the Future marquee with Stolz headlining.

I miss Fringe, too. Walter, portrayed by John Noble, is one of my all-time favorite TV characters.

[CameronBornAndBred]

This thread made me go back and review the history of Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle, who suffered the loss of his career in Hollwood's first sex scandal. In his case, there was no pattern of abuse, but instead one defining moment. (Which went to trial three times and never resulted in a conviction.)

The backlash against him was so severe that people went to the extremes of destroying his movies, not just shelving them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Arbuckle

[rasputin]

This thread made me go back and review the history of Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle, who suffered the loss of his career in Hollwood's first sex scandal. In his case, there was no pattern of abuse, but instead one defining moment. (Which went to trial three times and never resulted in a conviction.)

The backlash against him was so severe that people went to the extremes of destroying his movies, not just shelving them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Arbuckle

And in the case of Fatty Arbuckle, when he was tried for the third time on this charge, not only did the jury immediately acquit him, they also prepared a statement to the effect that there was absolutely no evidence of Arbuckle's guilt and that he should never have been charged.

[Blue in the Face]

And speaking of "Hey Hey Hey", I wonder if Fat Albert has also been pulled.

I don't know about Fat Albert, but The Cosby Show is back on a few cable networks.

[Bostondevil]

People still watch Woody Allen movies. Heck, Hollywood actors still MAKE Woody Allen movies. Timing is everything.

I think the atmosphere shifted though when Trump was elected President. There's a certain amount of anger that's been unleashed, anger that isn't going back in the box, maybe. We will all know it's really for real when the next Ben Rothliesberger or Jameis Winston comes around - are athletes still immune? We'll see.

ETA: If I misspelled some names, I don't care. I'm not looking them up.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

People still watch Woody Allen movies. Heck, Hollywood actors still MAKE Woody Allen movies. Timing is everything.

I think the atmosphere shifted though when Trump was elected President. There's a certain amount of anger that's been unleashed, anger that isn't going back in the box, maybe. We will all know it's really for real when the next Ben Rothliesberger or Jameis Winston comes around - are athletes still immune? We'll see.

ETA: If I misspelled some names, I don't care. I'm not looking them up.

Treading lightly here, as this is a hot bed of emotion and also a political minefield. I won't comment on the Trump remarks, but with athletes it is a different dynamic than with actors/producers.

Athletes and actors are both subject to hero worship or celebrity status - whatever phrase you like. But, the sense I get in Hollywood is there is more of a "well, these are the things you have to do if you want to get ahead." Athletes almost certainly take similar illegal liberties with groupies and abuse their star status, but I feel like it is a different flavor of the same fetid ice cream from actors/producers who - under an auspice of mentorship - abuse the trust of a lower-level coworker, employee, or aspiring star.

My hope is that these stories create an atmosphere of change and intolerance for such behavior. My fear is that it is a social media buzz that people have a sick fascination with for a few weeks.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

And now Louis CK. At this rate, half of Hollywood will be out of the business shortly.

[Bostondevil]

Treading lightly here, as this is a hot bed of emotion and also a political minefield. I won't comment on the Trump remarks, but with athletes it is a different dynamic than with actors/producers.

Athletes and actors are both subject to hero worship or celebrity status - whatever phrase you like. But, the sense I get in Hollywood is there is more of a "well, these are the things you have to do if you want to get ahead." Athletes almost certainly take similar illegal liberties with groupies and abuse their star status, but I feel like it is a different flavor of the same fetid ice cream from actors/producers who - under an auspice of mentorship - abuse the trust of a lower-level coworker, employee, or aspiring star.

My hope is that these stories create an atmosphere of change and intolerance for such behavior. My fear is that it is a social media buzz that people have a sick fascination with for a few weeks.

I was not trying to be political with the Trump comment. I do think his election was a turning point. We will see.

Have to disagree with you about it being a different flavor of ice cream. Brett Favre sending intimate pictures to Jenn Sterger or what the Jets did to Ines Sainz? Abuse of the trust of lower-level employees/aspiring journalists. Sexual assault is sexual assault - women don't really feel differently about it because the guy is an athlete, they just don't. But I do think that men do. So, I stand by what I said. We will know that attitudes have really changed when we stop making excuses for the athletes too.

That said, I don't think that every woman should be believed just because. Accusations need to be taken seriously and investigated. If they have no merit, dismiss them. But no more dismissing before a proper investigation just because the guy is rich or famous or powerful OR a great athlete.

My second son thinks it all is a flavor of the month situation just like you fear. Again, we'll see.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I was not trying to be political with the Trump comment. I do think his election was a turning point. We will see.

Have to disagree with you about it being a different flavor of ice cream. Brett Favre sending intimate pictures to Jenn Sterger or what the Jets did to Ines Sainz? Abuse of the trust of lower-level employees/aspiring journalists. Sexual assault is sexual assault - women don't really feel differently about it because the guy is an athlete, they just don't. But I do think that men do. So, I stand by what I said. We will know that attitudes have really changed when we stop making excuses for the athletes too.

That said, I don't think that every woman should be believed just because. Accusations need to be taken seriously and investigated. If they have no merit, dismiss them. But no more dismissing before a proper investigation just because the guy is rich or famous or powerful OR a great athlete.

My second son thinks it all is a flavor of the month situation just like you fear. Again, we'll see.

No, no, no, you misunderstood my point. I am not saying that one is "less bad," just that they are different. Please don't believe I see one as better. Yes, sexual assault is sexual assaut.

[dudog84]

I don't know how many of you went to graduate school, but sexual harassment was rampant in my department (30-some years ago). I never saw anything as an undergraduate but in graduate school you are much (MUCH) closer to the professors, and much more at their mercy. I dated a girl in the department so I saw it up close, but I felt powerless. I actually wrote about it at the time and I'm not much of a writer.

For some unknown reason, just a week ago I went to ratemyprofessors to check out how my advisor was doing (he's still teaching into his late 60s), and didn't get past the first comment that was from 2017. It said that his comments in class were borderline sexual harassment, so if you're easily offended you should avoid his class. And my advisor was just kinda sophomoric with humor, not like some others.

My apologies to sophomores.

[YmoBeThere]

Years ago in the military, we learned to never have a meeting with an opposite gender subordinate without:

1) the door open
2) preferably with another opposite gender member present particularly in their chain of command

Mere suggestion of impropriety was career limiting/ending.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Diana Nyad has come forward about sexual assualt from her coach when she was a young swimmer decades ago. Should be a special circle in Hell for coaches who take advantage of young people.

[Bostondevil]

No, no, no, you misunderstood my point. I am not saying that one is "less bad," just that they are different. Please don't believe I see one as better. Yes, sexual assault is sexual assaut.

Ok.

Also - I wasn't accusing you of thinking one was less bad more the world at large. But it is also true that we have not yet had a big time athlete accused of this kind of thing in the post Harvey Weinstein world. If one does and folks circle the wagons to protect him because they own his jersey, it will be proof that the world hasn't changed.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Ok.

Also - I wasn't accusing you of thinking one was less bad more the world at large. But it is also true that we have not yet had a big time athlete accused of this kind of thing in the post Harvey Weinstein world. If one does and folks circle the wagons to protect him because they own his jersey, it will be proof that the world hasn't changed.

You are depressing me.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Louis C.K. just did something rare. He admitted everything was true without excuses for it and issued an apology. (Unlike Spacey who pretty much said "if I did it, I don't remember it, but I would be sorry for it if it happened.")

[Blue in the Face]

Louis C.K. just did something rare. He admitted everything was true without excuses for it and issued an apology. (Unlike Spacey who pretty much said "if I did it, I don't remember it, but I would be sorry for it if it happened.")

He admitted it, but I think it's a bit generous to call it an apology since he never says, oh, I don't know, something along the lines of 'I'm sorry to these women for what I did and how I made them feel'. (I'm not calling you out, it's been referred to multiple places as an apology).

I want to address the stories told to The New York Times by five women named Abby, Rebecca, Dana, Julia who felt able to name themselves and one who did not.

These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was O.K. because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. I have been remorseful of my actions. And I’ve tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I’m aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position. I also took advantage of the fact that I was widely admired in my and their community, which disabled them from sharing their story and brought hardship to them when they tried because people who look up to me didn’t want to hear it. I didn’t think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it. There is nothing about this that I forgive myself for. And I have to reconcile it with who I am. Which is nothing compared to the task I left them with. I wish I had reacted to their admiration of me by being a good example to them as a man and given them some guidance as a comedian, including because I admired their work.

The hardest regret to live with is what you’ve done to hurt someone else. And I can hardly wrap my head around the scope of hurt I brought on them. I’d be remiss to exclude the hurt that I’ve brought on people who I work with and have worked with who’s professional and personal lives have been impacted by all of this, including projects currently in production: the cast and crew of Better Things, Baskets, The Cops, One Mississippi, and I Love You, Daddy. I deeply regret that this has brought negative attention to my manager Dave Becky who only tried to mediate a situation that I caused. I’ve brought anguish and hardship to the people at FX who have given me so much The Orchard who took a chance on my movie. and every other entity that has bet on me through the years. I’ve brought pain to my family, my friends, my children and their mother.

I have spent my long and lucky career talking and saying anything I want. I will now step back and take a long time to listen. Thank you for reading.

[JasonEvans]

He admitted it, but I think it's a bit generous to call it an apology since he never says, oh, I don't know, something along the lines of 'I'm sorry to these women for what I did and how I made them feel'. (I'm not calling you out, it's been referred to multiple places as an apology).

I dunno-- it sure seems like an apology to me. He seems very contrite and expressly explains how what he did was wrong. In the universe of all possible responses to this stuff, he comes off pretty well in this one, I think. Maybe... maybe... his career is not over.

[Blue in the Face]

I dunno-- it sure seems like an apology to me. He seems very contrite and expressly explains how what he did was wrong. In the universe of all possible responses to this stuff, he comes off pretty well in this one, I think.

He acknowledges what he did was wrong, which is much more than many (all?) of the other responses have done. Credit to him for that. But I don't know how something can be considered an apology if someone doesn't say they're sorry for what they've done to the people wronged.

[Bostondevil]

You are depressing me.

Sorry about that Mtn. Been around that particular block too many times myself. I won't tell you my stories cause in the grand scheme of things, I've gotten off easy. I've been groped more times than I can either count or remember but it never left me feeling bad about myself. I always had enough self-confidence to wonder what was wrong with the men that did it.

The wagons are circling around yet another example, not an athlete though. But evidence that times haven't changed. Except perhaps in Hollywood.