Tonight's the Night!(CTC Blue vs White) Post-Game Thread

[Kedsy]

Jack White has escaped much mention so far. And he only scored a single point, in 14 minutes. But he also had six rebounds (more than Carter, Bagley, or Bolden), three assists, one steal, no turnovers and played solid defense at both the 3 and 4. On a team with no shortage of scorers, that kind of complementary contribution might be his ticket for seeing the floor.

Did you really think so? I only saw it on my computer screen, but I thought Jack looked a bit slow afoot on defense.

I'd like to see Duke try to play super fast and use 8 deep.

I think Duke could play super fast and only go 7 deep. I don't think adding an 8th guy in the rotation would make a difference in how quick a pace we could manage.

So who would be your shooter off the bench? Only 3 guards play all year?

I think we really might primarily go with a forward at "small forward," instead of a guard. If we do employ a shooter off the bench, I don't think he's going to play regular minutes.

I feel like I'm Kedsy or something.

It comes with age.

[COYS]

This was a thoroughly enjoyable CTC scrimmage. I was encouraged by basically everyone’s play. And I think this thread has already covered most of it. But I think I might have had a slightly more optimistic take on Trevon’s game (not that anyone was being overly critical or anything). One of the things that kept Trevon from getting into the paint was some almost perfect hedging from Marques. I thought that was a great sign for our defensive potential. Also, while Trevon had some turnovers (one of which was clearly an attempt to get his teammates involved when it would have been easy for him to throw down a slam), he also showed some real skill with a few nice passes and, perhaps best of all, his one man fast-break early in the game when he turned on the jets and passed everyone for an easy layup. That is something we haven’t gotten out of our primary point guard in a long while.

I was also impressed by Wendell’s passing. He made some quick reads when getting the ball in or near the post that were impressive and bode well for a partnership with Marvin and Marques.

Javin looked great and his athleticism made him unstoppable on the glass. He would be a nightmare for a college wing player to box out because he’s quick, tall, and ridiculously bouncy. He played the three and D role to perfection. If rumors of his improved three point shooting are true (and he was a good shooter from range in high school), he really might be able to carve out a significant role.

I was also generally impressed with the mobility of Marvin, Marques, and Wendell. I knew Marvin was agile, but Wendell looks like he’s in great shape and moved well on the court. And Marques, who showed promise as a good hedger last season, looked even better hedging on screens on the perimeter during CTC.

I can’t wait to watch the exhibitions

[MrPoon]

This team is deep enough that they are running hard, competitive practices like we haven't had in awhile.
Duval is going to amaze this year.
Any team with GA, Duval and Bag III is going to win a lot of games. Trent's toughness really flashed for me. He was really vocal late in timeouts. I loved that. He adds a chip that we have needed in past years.

Lots of fun. While I can't ball like these young men, nice to see I dance about as well as some!

[DevilFalcon]

I'm looking forward to the fast pace and transition game that we really haven't had since Kyrie. It was good to hear Coach mention that in his presser. That and hopefully being dominant on the boards.

[dukelifer]

Wow, this thread should be a case study in recency bias. Alex looked good, but come on, it's 20 minutes of practice. I'm not trying to be a buzzkill, but I think he's at least a year away from being a contributor. He is NOT freshman Grayson Allen. Grayson was 195 pounds his freshman year. He was ready to compete from day 1. Alex is MAYBE 165 soaking wet. He's not going to be able to guard guys in the ACC with that body.

Physically there is no comparison. But basketball is also a mental game. Alex showed his competitiveness and shooting stroke. A year or so in the weight room will help him significantly. Seth Curry was pretty slight and turned out to be a very good player.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I thought the same thing.

The next video that came up for me was the intros. Think the team needs dancing lessons. Thank God they can play B-ball.

Does this mean we have to stop making fun of "Dancin'" Danny Green?

[OldPhiKap]

Does this mean we have to stop making fun of "Dancin'" Danny Green?

No. Feel free to continue!

[FerryFor50]

K suggested after the scrimmage that Goldwire might see some PT in real games.

I went into the game with the assumption that Goldwire was an Andre Buckner-analog. I came out thinking that he might be a Tyler Thornton-analog.

Don't get me wrong. I do not anticipate major minutes for Goldwire this season, maybe ever. And it should be noted that he played 20 minutes the other night without getting an assist, not a ringing endorsement for a point guard. Allen usually initiated the offense for their (white) team.

I came away with the same impression of Goldwire. K loves those underdog/bulldog type players. The ones that just play defense and hit the occasional open shot.

It's worth noting that TT only averaged 1.9 APG for his career. Matt Jones averaged 1.4. They both ran the point at times.

Goldwire might be that defensive bulldog that K loves.

[kAzE]

Physically there is no comparison. But basketball is also a mental game. Alex showed his competitiveness and shooting stroke. A year or so in the weight room will help him significantly. Seth Curry was pretty slight and turned out to be a very good player.

Oh for sure. Alex has some good potential. He probably will never be the physical presence that Grayson is, but with a year or 2 of seasoning, he could turn out to be a very nice scorer. I'm just not convinced it will happen this year. I like him and Jordan Goldwire. Both of them project to be solid role players down the line.

[richardjackson199]

Guards don't have to be Lebron or Westbrook physically to be effective.

Tyus Jones was pretty special in college. Steph Curry does ok. Of course I'm not comparing O'Connell to them, just citing examples of smaller guys who can ball at the highest level.

I was comparing O'Connell's potential this year to Grayson's his freshman year, just pointing out that the guy at the very end of the bench was capable of much more. I expect most to disagree given that Grayson finished that year as an integral catalyst for the Natty. But in CTC O'Connell looked much better than advertised. I saw more in 20 minutes from him than I saw in an entire season from some other players folks assume will play most of our bench minutes. Yep, very small sample size. But impressive moxy was on display.

Do I expect O'Connell to be the next Grayson Allen? Probably not. Grayson is good enough to win the Wooden this year if he optimizes potential. But I'm very pleased that I think O'Connell and Goldwire are underrated and better than advertised. As 2015 National Championship game showed, you never know when you might needs guys off the bench to step up and give you a spark. This team is young, but they have more than 5 capable players. And that is crucial to win it all.

Thank God it's basketball season!

[ricks68]

Oh for sure. Alex has some good potential. He probably will never be the physical presence that Grayson is, but with a year or 2 of seasoning, he could turn out to be a very nice scorer. I'm just not convinced it will happen this year. I like him and Jordan Goldwire. Both of them project to be solid role players down the line.

Maybe Alex is the guy K puts in, along with Grayson, to take the last 3 point shot needed to win or tie the game. Think about that one.

ricks

[AtlDuke72]

[QUOTE=ricks68;1008314]Here’s #6: Alex O’ Connell is likely to be the next Blue Devil everyone loves to hate.


Why would you put this in the article on the front page? I for one have heard enough about the "hate". Promoting one of our new players for that just escapes me.

[ChillinDuke]

Most have already brought up the things that I would have. So I'll focus on the end of the bench situation.

Re: rotation, the one thing I think we are missing are "glue guys." The frontcourt looks clearly manned by Bagley, Bolden, and Carter. The backcourt looks clearly manned by Allen, Duval, and Trent. Those guys are all, more or less, clearly defined skill sets. Maybe Trent becomes a bit of a glue guy? But at this stage, he's probably more of a shooter/offensive wing.

So #7, and possibly #8. Who is it? Javin fits the bill quite easily. He isn't likely a bruiser down low, nor is he a shooter. He appears quick enough to guard the perimeter, at least decently enough. He's certainly tall enough to guard college 4s/5s. Hops? He's got that. He made a 3 (and bombed another), so he at least has potential to develop a perimeter game, although probably not this year. To me, we need him this year in a glue roll. Get boards, interchange on D, cause disruption, and don't require the rock on offense, although be able to if the situation arises. Add that to the fact that Duke has been promoting him more than the other guys, and I think he's #7.

#8? I'd prefer another glue guy, frankly. Although Trevon/Gary's ability to hit a decent clip from deep could change my thinking here. If Trevon can hit 33% and Gary 35%+, I'll take a glue guy #8. If they are down in the low-30s, I'll probably take a shooter. Granted, this is the #8 guy, better known as the 7.5th guy. So we're not talking major minutes here.

If 7.5 = Glue, I like Jack White in that roll. I think he can give us some positional flexibility on defense, decent rebounding, general court awareness, and not be a total liability in any singular facet. If he can hit any semblance of a consistent 3-point shot, that's gravy in all regards.

If 7.5 = Shooter, I'd give the nod to Jordan Tucker. I'll go out on a limb with that one, for the following reasons.

Vrank - clearly not a shooter and total logjam up front if you consider he has legitimately 4 guys in front of him that are >= 6'9", most of which are high-level players.
O'Connell - sure, he had a nice scrimmage. But that kid does not have the physique to play in high-level basketball games right now. He may play great in a game against Northwest-Most or in a Duke scrimmage designed for publicity/pep rally/no injuries, but I think he'd get eaten alive against a major D-1 team.
Goldwire - didn't show me enough. Sure, he played a decent game in a scrimmage designed to not get anyone hurt. But when the games count, and the whole bag of tricks is in play for every player, I didn't see anything from him that evidences he'll solidly keep pace.
J Rob - not gonna happen.

So who else but Jordan Tucker as 7.5-man Shooter? I don't know that he necessarily showed anything in the Blue/White Game that gave me confidence in him. But neither did the other guys, and his only real competition for the role of Backup Shooter is Jack White, Alex O'Connell, and Jordan G. I have no idea if White is a better shooter, Alex O'Connell is not physically ready, and neither is Jordan G.

$0.02. Let's play!!!

- Chillin

[kAzE]

I'm actually fairly confident at this point in predicting that Javin DeLaurier will be the 6th man, and be the first guy off the bench (sorry Bolden). He's probably the glue guy Chillin is looking for. I just don't think Marques brings anything to the table that Wendell doesn't already provide. He also is limited to playing center, which makes him an awkward fit next to Wendell.

Javin on the other hand, can definitely play power forward, and possibly get some minutes at the 3, but I think he would be the 4 in lineups with Marvin and one of the centers. Javin is just an athletic freak with a strong motor, and can really impact the game with his rebounding and interior defense. I can definitely see him playing 20 or more minutes a game.

Marvin can absolutely play on the perimeter. He was handling the rock in the open court like a guard, and I'm very comfortable predicting that he will spend time playing "small" forward in our big lineups. I'm not as sold on Javin as a 3.

[richardjackson199]

I'm actually fairly confident at this point in predicting that Javin DeLaurier will be the 6th man, and be the first guy off the bench (sorry Bolden). He's probably the glue guy Chillin is looking for. I just don't think Marques brings anything to the table that Wendell doesn't already provide. He also is limited to playing center, which makes him an awkward fit next to Wendell.

Javin on the other hand, can definitely play power forward, and possibly get some minutes at the 3, but I think he would be the 4 in lineups with Marvin and one of the centers. Javin is just an athletic freak with a strong motor, and can really impact the game with his rebounding and interior defense. I can definitely see him playing 20 or more minutes a game.

Marvin can absolutely play on the perimeter. He was handling the rock in the open court like a guard, and I'm very comfortable predicting that he will spend time playing "small" forward in our big lineups. I'm not as sold on Javin as a 3.

I'm fairly confident Bolden will play more minutes than Javin. Gotta love minutes debates!

[kAzE]

I'm fairly confident Bolden will play more minutes than Javin. Gotta love minutes debates!

Sure, it's very possible, We're all guessing at this point. Both Javin and Marques are obviously very talented big men. I just think Javin is a more natural fit with our presumed starting bigs (Wendell and Marvin) than Marques.

[richardjackson199]

Sure, it's very possible, We're all guessing at this point. Both Javin and Marques are obviously very talented big men. I just think Javin is a more natural fit with our presumed starting bigs (Wendell and Marvin) than Marques.

Gotcha. I see Wendell best at the 4. I agree Bolden is a 5. Thus I love the idea of the huge lineup with Bagley at the 3.

I really want to see Bolden have a breakout year. I'm not sure or confident that will happen. But I really want him to.

Bolden having a break-out year and getting drafted in the first round is infinitely better for our program than being a bust and transferring. Yes, Captain Obviously stuff, but both outcomes could happen or anything in between.

I still think and hope Bolden has a much higher ceiling than Javin. I may be very wrong there - I haven't seen as much as I'd like from either thus far. I hope both reach whatever their ceiling is, because if they do it will be a fun year.

[kAzE]

Gotcha. I see Wendell best at the 4. I agree Bolden is a 5. Thus I love the idea of the huge lineup with Bagley at the 3.

I really want to see Bolden have a breakout year. I'm not sure or confident that will happen. But I really want him to.

Bolden having a break-out year and getting drafted in the first round is infinitely better for our program than being a bust and transferring. Yes, Captain Obviously stuff, but both outcomes could happen or anything in between.

I still think and hope Bolden has a much higher ceiling than Javin. I may be very wrong there - I haven't seen as much as I'd like from either thus far. I hope both reach whatever their ceiling is, because if they do it will be a fun year.

Absolutely. I would love nothing more than for Bolden to live up to the hype. The only thing I disagree with you on is that Carter would be best as a 4. He and Bolden seem to be more of the plodding type of big men who live in the paint, so I'd have a very hard time picturing them both on the floor at the same time. Marques may be more talented than Javin and maybe a better NBA prospect, but I just think the fit with the rest of the roster is going to play a role in his minutes. I think he will have the Harry Giles role from last year, basically the backup center.

Javin on the other hand is like the energizer bunny: agile, explosive, and able to cover a lot of ground very quickly on defense and running the floor in transition. Our transition game is going to be a part of the offense this year with Trevon manning to the point, so the prospect of a 6'10" Javin sprinting the length of the court for an easy fast break slam sounds like something we would try to incorporate into the gameplan.

[whereinthehellami]

Fun scrimmage, random thoughts:

I agree with the announcers (Spatola) that the big guys aren't being sped up and seem confident. The thought of teams having to defend everyone without doubling the bigs makes me giddy. And Carter could finish in the top 3 in assists, I really like him as a passer.

DeLaurier seems poised to be the glue guy and fit in where needed. I'm curious to see him at the 3 with two other bigs and see how it goes. He could take his smaller defender inside and Bagley could take his bigger defender outside for mismatches. Lots of options. Javin seems to be becoming a team leader. High effort guy who collects stats. The outside shot needs some work though, not natural looking, very stiff.

I was impressed with Trent, especially as the scrimmage went on. Didn't really force much and was involved in all aspects of the game. Had a nice put-back knifing through the lane. We didn't really see his floater, which he has as part of a decent mid-range game. The announcers mentioned that the coaches love him, very coachable and a willing and vocal communicator. He liked the spotlight which you love to see from your freshman.

Duval made some impressive plays and some WTH ones. Tough, fine line to tote for the coaches. Keeping him confident while pulling back on some of the poor decisions. We need him to be solid and engaged.

O'Connell and Goldwire were impressive, mostly due to the fact that they did not play like freshman. The bright lights, the crowd, and they both made multiple mature plays. That is encouraging. You never know when and if they will be needed.

[FerryFor50]

I'm fairly confident Bolden will play more minutes than Javin. Gotta love minutes debates!

I think Bolden also plays more minutes than Javin, mostly because Javin probably won't get better at not fouling this season.