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Thread: Taylor King

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Spring Lake, NC (acutally Harnett County)

    There is still a flicker of life in that darn nag

    I have watched. I have listened. I have read. I have to admit that I like having Taylor in the game (good thing I'm not coaching). Hitting or missing, he is a threat. He is long. He hustles. He seems to bring passion.

    Yes, he can be slow. Yes, he has a lot to learn. Still, I would have him out there more. The "threat" of Taylor could open up things for others.\

    Just my humble opinion.

  2. #62

    I agree with Constantstrain 81

    I'd also like to see King get 15-20 minutes per game. His court time was substantially less than any of the other 7 guys that played against Temple. On the other hand, I did like K's substitution pattern, trying so many different combinations, and keeping legs relatively fresh. The exception to this is Nelson's 37 minutes, and King's 12 minutes. I believe that if King had gotten, for instance, 18 minutes, and Nelson 31 minutes, that would have been a good balance of using all 8 of Duke's available minutes.

    GMR

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Taylor King Unbound

    A few things to be said about TK. Also, remember that this guy is a freshman -- and is going to get a lot better.

    1. TK is an exciting player -- not all of it positive -- but you have to watch him when he's on the court. Also, he seems to get a lot better if left on the floor for a few minutes.

    2. PPM figures are really impt. to this team, which will have inevitable scoring droughts (two last night). Ergo TK is going to get more minutes, IMHO (remember, for the "grouse," the "h" is silent). I also thought his defense was not bad -- he was certainly active.

    3. Anyone else see a little of the Art Heyman personality in TK? You know, in your face! Oh? You didn't like that? In your face again! Of course, Art displayed a wry attitude on the court where you knew he knew it was just a basketball game.

    sagegrouse

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Well said.

    I think he has more to gain with added playing time. He may not be the most athletic player but he's not akward and doesn't seem to get his shots blocked.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    Reminds me of...

    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    A few things to be said about TK. Also, remember that this guy is a freshman -- and is going to get a lot better.

    1. TK is an exciting player -- not all of it positive -- but you have to watch him when he's on the court. Also, he seems to get a lot better if left on the floor for a few minutes.

    2. PPM figures are really impt. to this team, which will have inevitable scoring droughts (two last night). Ergo TK is going to get more minutes, IMHO (remember, for the "grouse," the "h" is silent). I also thought his defense was not bad -- he was certainly active.

    3. Anyone else see a little of the Art Heyman personality in TK? You know, in your face! Oh? You didn't like that? In your face again! Of course, Art displayed a wry attitude on the court where you knew he knew it was just a basketball game.

    sagegrouse
    Taylor's square the shoulders, stand and shoot reminds me of Bob Verga.

  6. #66

    king's value

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Yates View Post
    With Taylor, there are certain strengths and weaknesses. Obviously, he can score. He is a game rebounder. He is a willing defender, if not super capable.

    But, his athleticism is a problem. And it is not a problem that can be solved with his long arms. I am not talking about his defense. That is what it is. An athletic big or wing will have him for lunch. That may not change during his career. Where his athleticism can hurt Duke is on Offense. Like JJ, he will be susceptable against athletic defenders. Vs JJ, an athletic 6-3 to 6-6 could shut him down. Any shorter and he shot over, any taller and he would escape. Taylor's death zone will be the 6-5 to 6-8 range. A great example is Marcus Ginyard at UNC. He is a superb defender in the Nate James mold. He is an athletic 6-6 ish. If he is dedicated, he can completely shut Taylor down. King will have real trouble even getting the ball, much less getting off a shot. I like Taylor as a player. He can be great for us. But against teams with athletic defenders he will have trouble.

    And if he is not hitting 3s, he really isn't doing enough otherwise to justify PT. I know that Cornell is not an example of a team with athletes, but Taylor wasn't hitting. When he isn't, he can't play. I think he should have gotten more of an opportunity than he did, but I wasn't at practice or in the huddle, so I don't know what happened.

    Taylor will have to get more active on O, moving arround a la JJ to get more open looks.

    In Summation, Taylor will have some great games. He will have some awful days. The one thing I doubt we will see from him is consistency. I really think it will be feast or famine, and there is no way to tell beforehand what it will be. I love debate, but I don't see this roller coaster ending this year.

    This horse won't get any deader.

    Patrick Yates
    Just occupying a defender like Ginyard would bring benefit to the team. Even if King doesn't score, that means that Ginyard is not covering DeMarcus or Gerald, which is in itself a good thing.

    At this point, Taylor is competing for playing time with Dave McClure and Lance Thomas. I think both Dave and Lance offer more defensively, but each of them is so minimally involved in the offense that it makes it harder for everyone else to get good looks, particularly against a well-coached team that focuses on defense. The trade-off becomes whether we are better off with McClure's and/or Lance's defensive advantage vs. King's offensive advantage- I think that the best choice will shift both within games and between games, but last night I thought we were best with Singler and King, along with 2 of Demarcus, Gerald, Jon and either Nolan or Greg.

    That said, Coach K emphasizes defense and tends to reward excellent defense (like we saw from Dave) more than excellent shooting.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by mike88 View Post
    Just occupying a defender like Ginyard would bring benefit to the team. Even if King doesn't score, that means that Ginyard is not covering DeMarcus or Gerald, which is in itself a good thing.
    Exactly. If UNC assigns their best defender - maybe the best defender in the ACC - to Taylor King, that's awesome news for us.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by mike88 View Post
    That said, Coach K emphasizes defense and tends to reward excellent defense (like we saw from Dave) more than excellent shooting.
    True in the abstract, but my impression has been that McClure hardly ever plays much in the years he's been at Duke. I guess it's because he seems to be perpetually injured, but to me it seems that even when healthy he's pretty low on the list to get minutes.

  9. #69
    I don't buy the idea that 12 minutes isn't playing much. That's more than a quarter of the game. That's a lot.
    No one is saying that King is not playing "much"; or, if they are, that's now what I'm saying. I'm just saying he should have played more against Temple specifically. When we are struggling that much on offense, and he was shooting so well, why not throw him in there?

    As for UNC, hopefully we will not need to use him just for a post body. It would be nice to have Lance at 100% and Zoubek at least able to get a few minutes. That said, if King is in the game, I highly doubt Roy Williams is going to "waste" his best defender on TK. If King knocks down a few 3s in a row, the whole game could be blown wide open because RW feels he is forced to put an elite defender on King. But I think more likely is that you will see Ginyard on D-Marc and Ellington on Henderson.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO

    Taylor King Unbound

    A few things to be said about TK. Also, remember that this guy is a freshman -- and is going to get a lot better.

    1. TK is an exciting player -- not all of it positive -- but you have to watch him when he's on the court. Also, he seems to get a lot better if left on the floor for a few minutes.

    2. PPM figures are really impt. to this team, which will have inevitable scoring droughts (two last night). Ergo TK is going to get more minutes, IMHO (remember, for the "grouse," the "h" is silent). I also thought his defense was not bad -- he was certainly active.

    3. Anyone else see a little of the Art Heyman personality in TK? You know, in your face! Oh? You didn't like that? In your face again! Of course, Art displayed a wry attitude on the court where you knew he knew it was just a basketball game.

    sagegrouse

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    This is a long season. I believe that there is a decent chance that K sees no need to risk wearing King out early; he can potentially fill multiple roles, each of which I'm sure he is developing more and more of a feel for without the emotional and physical drain of playing extended minutes in games now.

    If he is fresh and ready as the regular season winds down, a healthy, fresh, and confident TK could be a real nice piece to have for the master to deploy.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Towson, MD
    Quote Originally Posted by Fish80 View Post
    When everyone is healthy, there just aren't that many more minutes for Taylor. Through 13 games, with one game going into overtime, there were 2625 minutes available. Here’s how the minutes were allocated.

    DeMarcus Nelson 395
    Jon Scheyer 363
    Kyle Singler 348
    Greg Paulus 346
    Gerald Henderson 315
    Lance Thomas 208
    Nolan Smith 207
    Taylor King 175
    Brian Zoubek 140
    David McClure 83
    Marty Pocius 32
    Jordan Davidson 13

    Realistically, when Lance and Brian are back, Taylor won’t see any significant time at the 4 spot. So we are really talking about allocating time between DeMarcus, Jon, Gerald, David, and Taylor. Who’s minutes does he take?
    I think the the answer is Lance Thomas. He hasn't been productive enough to justify those kinds of minutes, whereas King's production warrants a good 5+ minutes more per game. I really want to see Lance contributing and I know he hasn't been healthy, but if he doesn't start bringing more to the table, I think King and McClure should get more of his minutes.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Yates View Post
    Taylor's death zone will be the 6-5 to 6-8 range. A great example is Marcus Ginyard at UNC. He is a superb defender in the Nate James mold. He is an athletic 6-6 ish. If he is dedicated, he can completely shut Taylor down.
    maybe, but i doubt ginyard would guard king if either gerald or demarcus were in the game. certainly not if they were both in the game. and if scheyer is in too forget about it...the only way would be if they were playing green, ellington and ginyard at the same time, and ud have to assume lawson would be on the floor so thats a 4 guard lineup basically and i dont see them running that very often. against us though they might to match quickness, but i doubt it cause they have size and quickness without having to put 4 guards on the floor.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    St Augustine, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by Oriole Way View Post
    I think the the answer is Lance Thomas. He hasn't been productive enough to justify those kinds of minutes, whereas King's production warrants a good 5+ minutes more per game. I really want to see Lance contributing and I know he hasn't been healthy, but if he doesn't start bringing more to the table, I think King and McClure should get more of his minutes.
    Respectfully, I disagree. Taylor will only play the 4 if Lance and Brian are out. Lance plays the 4 or the 5, and is a much better interior and off the ball defender, something we really need. Lance is faster and stronger. Completely different games. Taylor will get 10 to 15 minutes per game, some times more, but not Lance's minutes. McClure will get minutes at the 4.

  15. #75
    Hi,

    There are times when I read one thread on the main board's first page and then a second thread on the main board's first page and wonder about the consistency of our thoughts.

    On this thread we are discussing an extremely talented freshman who most posters would like to see get more PT but many agree it's very hard to take minutes from the other guys who are also very talented and playing relatively well. What are great problem to have... a deep & talented team with only so many minutes to allocate.

    On another thread we are discussing a myriad of concerns about this team's current play and many posters are expressing serious doubt about whether we will make it to the second weekend of the tourny.

    Hmmm, we have a deep & talented team and what I think is the best coaching staff in college hoops BUT we are going nowhere in this year's tourny.

    Best regards,
    Jeffrey

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Western North Carolina

    Yes, but the Downside, oh, the Downside

    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    Exactly. If UNC assigns their best defender - maybe the best defender in the ACC - to Taylor King, that's awesome news for us.
    I agree that it would be worth something to tie up the ACC's best defender. I also concede that Taylor is like a walking talking WMD on the court, in that the D always has to know where he is. But, who does HE guard?

    There are two scenarios when he is in the game vs UNC. Well, 3, but number 3 may be statistically irrelevant.

    1. UNC is going with their typical lineup of two bigs. Assuming Taylor is one of our two bigs, he has to guard either Hans or Stephenson/Thompson. That won't be pretty, no offense to Taylor.

    2. UNC goes small, leaving Taylor on Ginyard. If Paulus is in the game on Lawson, or Green, or Ellington, we have two players who, try though they surely will, probably can't stay within 1 arms length of the guy they are defending.

    3. This assumes some weird 3 big alignment by either squad which I will have to see to believe it is happening.

    In summation, Taylor is definitely a threat. And yes, having Taylor occupy Ginyard, instead of letting Ginyard play Hendo or DeMarcus (I actually think this is a good matchup for Duke and that Roy will avoid it if possible) is a good thing.

    But, Taylor has to guard someone, unless we go Zone, which might not be a bad thing. I just see too many guys on UNC's team that can guard Taylor, and nobody that I would like to assign Taylor to guard. I think he will get better, but right now there are too few favorable matchups for him.

    As an aside, I would love to see a gimmick D against UNC by Duke. I think a box and 1, with either Demarcus or Hendo on Ellington, their only real outside threat. That would leave the rest of the D to collapse on Lawson when he drives or Hans when he gets the ball, cause that boy won't pass for love or money.

    I am not really worried about scoring on UNC. They are poor defenders on a good day. Can we slow them down is the real question?

    Patrick Yates

  17. #77
    I don't see any huge problem with putting King on Thompson or Stephenson or Ginyard. I mean, I guess it's not ideal, but we all know where our frontcourt stands and that guys are going to have to guard bigger players.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    I don't see any huge problem with putting King on Thompson or Stephenson or Ginyard. I mean, I guess it's not ideal, but we all know where our frontcourt stands and that guys are going to have to guard bigger players.
    Agreed. Thompson, Stephenson and Ginyard aren't the scorers on that team anyway. The bottom line is that we don't match up with UNC's frontcourt anyway; it is what it is and we're going to have to deal with that. I also don't agree with people that say King's defense is bad. He's a much better post defender than I thought he would be and that's what we need him for. We have enough perimeter defenders.

    I've read all the posts that take a different position than I do and I'm cognizant of your arguments. But until Brian and Lance can come back and be effective I think King needs to get more minutes. I'm not saying he deserves to be in there all game but just from a size and efficiency perspective (he's easily our most efficient scorer), I would say he needs to be on the court more. Just my $0.02

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey View Post
    Hi,

    There are times when I read one thread on the main board's first page and then a second thread on the main board's first page and wonder about the consistency of our thoughts.

    On this thread we are discussing an extremely talented freshman who most posters would like to see get more PT but many agree it's very hard to take minutes from the other guys who are also very talented and playing relatively well. What are great problem to have... a deep & talented team with only so many minutes to allocate.

    On another thread we are discussing a myriad of concerns about this team's current play and many posters are expressing serious doubt about whether we will make it to the second weekend of the tourny.
    I was thinking along similar lines but with respect to some recruiting threads. Some are lamenting the "downfall" of our recruiting (at least with respect to UNC's), but I'm thinking about how good our freshmen are this year. It's nice that we're arguing about PT for a guy I expected to make a small contribution this year. Oh, and last year's freshmen are a pretty good class as well. I guess that perspectives vary quite a bit.

  20. #80

    Taylor reminds me of Brockman

    Quote Originally Posted by Wander View Post
    I don't see any huge problem with putting King on Thompson or Stephenson or Ginyard. I mean, I guess it's not ideal, but we all know where our frontcourt stands and that guys are going to have to guard bigger players.
    Though not quite as tall and not quite as strong, Taylor is still strong enough to be a force inside rebounding and guarding a 4. He could be hard to post up. Taylor brings the scoring punch from outside that Brockman doesn't have. If we don't have Zoubek by the UNC game, I would try him on Hansbrough. At worst he can give fouls and protect Singler from the cheapies that Hansbrough always seems to draw. Even if we do have Zoubek, he may be our best substitute when Hansbrough is in the game.

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