Kyrie Traded to Boston

[johnb]

Headline from the NY Times: "Donald Trump, Afghanistan, Kyrie Irving: Your Wednesday Briefing"

Cleveland got a good deal. Boston is now poised to be a great team.

Two reasons: 1. In the NBA, a superstar>>2 stars. Irving is a superstar. The other guys aren't. Well, except that Nets pick, which could turn into a monster.

2. Nevertheless, the Celtics still have almost too many 1st round picks in the next few years.
Here are the draft picks that Boston still has: (from https://www.boston.com/sports/boston...aft-picks-list)

2018

Los Angeles Lakers (If pick falls between spots 2-5)

Boston Celtics’ own pick

2019

Philadelphia 76ers or Sacramento Kings (If the Lakers’ 2018 pick falls outside 2-5, Boston will instead have a choice between Philadelphia’s top-1 protected pick or Sacramento’s top-1 protected pick in 2019)

Memphis Grizzlies (If pick falls outside top-8)

Los Angeles Clippers (If pick falls outside top-14)

Boston Celtics’ own pick

2020

Memphis Grizzlies (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-6)

Los Angeles Clippers (If pick has not yet been conveyed and falls outside top-14)

Boston Celtics’ own pick

2021

Memphis Grizzlies (If pick has not yet been conveyed. Pick would be unprotected)

Boston Celtics’ own pick

[wsb3]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...e-irving-trade

Kind of jumped out at me that the Celtics have only 4 players from last years team that finished 1 in the regular season..

[CDu]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...e-irving-trade

Kind of jumped out at me that the Celtics have only 4 players from last years team that finished 1 in the regular season..

Yeah, that article sums things up nicely. I think the Celtics took a step back this year with this trade. But they are better-positioned moving forward with a younger, better talent at PG to go with their young core.

I think they might be a better team than last year, with Hayward upgrading over Crowder, Irving offsetting Thomas, adding Tatum, and getting a year older. But I am not sure, as they lost Bradley and got even smaller despite being a poor rebounding team. And I am pretty sure they are further from the 2018 Finals today after giving a net upgrade to the Cavs roster.

But the value of this trade to the Celtics isn't for this year. It is for next year and beyond. They are better-positioned to capitalize on what they hope are star years for Brown and Tatum in 2-3-4-5 years from now. And that is a time in which Golden State may be retooling and LeBron will be fading.

[nmduke2001]

Yeah, that article sums things up nicely. I think the Celtics took a step back this year with this trade. But they are better-positioned moving forward with a younger, better talent at PG to go with their young core.

I think they might be a better team than last year, with Hayward upgrading over Crowder, Irving offsetting Thomas, adding Tatum, and getting a year older. But I am not sure, as they lost Bradley and got even smaller despite being a poor rebounding team. And I am pretty sure they are further from the 2018 Finals today after giving a net upgrade to the Cavs roster.

But the value of this trade to the Celtics isn't for this year. It is for next year and beyond. They are better-positioned to capitalize on what they hope are star years for Brown and Tatum in 2-3-4-5 years from now. And that is a time in which Golden State may be retooling and LeBron will be fading.

I'd say the reason (for me) that Boston won this trade is that there is no way on earth I would give Isaiah Thomas a max contract when his deal is up. I would guess that Ainge knew someone would bite and pay Thomas a lot of money and he wasn't willing to match. If you can move Thomas and get Kyrie in return, that's a win.

[MrPoon]

I think both teams did very well considering the situation.

Boston didn't want to sign Thomas to a long term deal but how do you let him walk? Trade him.
But how do you replace him? KI. Both aren't plus defenders but KI can play some when motivated. IT simply cannot.

The bet Boston is making is the Steven's can get a roster to play as a team and play good D. But he can't make them better athletes and he needed more diverse scoring. Bring in Tatum, Gordon, KI. Wow, I'd make the same bet.

The unrestricted first round pick has the chance of haunting them but we all know how open and risky any future draft can be.

Cleveland was smart too. Two very short term fixes for the KI problem, match the scoring and add some perimeter D. Crowder's scoring is about to get better with LBJ helping set him up. Plus the pick and much more cap flexibility down the road.

Good trade all around. Tough as a cavs fan, happy as a KI fan. Still really had a hard time explaining the entire thing to my die hard KI fan 12 year old son. Had KI's shoes on at the time.

[Billy Dat]

What a fun trade though. So rare to see two rivals trade superstars like this. I am excited to see how it plays out.

Yes!

Good commentary and analysis on this thread...I listened to Bill Simmons' podcast crew (Simmons, O'Connor, Serrano, Titus and Tjarks) break down the trade in the immediate aftermath and someone made that point that with the Nets having upgraded their talent and having zero incentive to lose this season due to not owning their pick. If the thought is that the 2018 draft may be top heavy (Bagley, Porter Jr., Ayton, Doncic), and ESPN's Kevin Pelton reports that ESPN's real +/- projections have the Nets (and therefore Cleveland) getting the 5th pick...it was a good risk.

I really have to admire Ainge's acumen as a GM, but also a huge win for Cav GM Koby Altman who started under a cloud and pulled a huge win out of the hat, especially going toe to toe with Ainge. (not that he won the trade - he may have - but that he got such a good deal)

Got a call from an older PhiKap in NYC essentially saying "I can't believe I have to root for those (expletives) Celtics now that they have Kyrie *and* Tatum!!" I laughed at him, frustrated Knicks/Nets fan. Not having a horse in that race, I say Go Green!

Man do I resemble that remark. As a tortured Knicks fan, I rooted for the Bird Celtics in the 80s (not against the Knicks), but flipped against the Celtics in the Pierce era (he just owned the Knicks) and when Boston's 4 sports success became utterly unbearable. Now, with Kyrie and Tatum, I am interested again.

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I think this was generally a win-win for both teams. Cleveland had its hands tied since Kyrie asked to leave. Boston had its hands tied in terms of trying to get some value back for Thomas. Boston has accumulated a lot of depth, both in terms of current talent and future picks, but ultimately, there are only 240 minutes of playing time per game to be divided amongst those players.

I wonder if there was any back and forth about whether it would be the Nets pick vs. the Lakers pick that got traded. If I were a Celtics fan, I would be a bit happier about this deal if I had given up the Lakers pick instead of the Nets pick, though we will see how the ping pong balls bounce next spring.

I am a lifelong Knicks fan who really does not like the makeup of the team right now but will have a hard time rooting for the Celtics despite them having two of my favorite former Duke players.

[Native]

I don’t think you can really evaluate who came out ahead in this trade until we see what this Nets pick turns into. If, for instance, Isaiah Thomas reinjures his hip or the Nets somehow magically make the playoff — or that pick isn’t somehow Top 5 — then Boston moved a lot of assets in Isaiah and Crowder that could have ultimately burdened them down the line. Much of Crowder’s value came as the result of his bargain-basement contract. How valuable is he on a more expensive contract?

I like this trade for both teams, and I especially like that it gets Kyrie in what appears to be a more stable situation in the future.

[kAzE]

I think it's pretty key to remember that Isaiah Thomas is on the last year of his very cheap contract, and thinks he deserves a max contract offer in the 2018 off season, which would probably run his team around $30+ million per year. This is the exact same reason they traded Avery Bradley for Marcus Morris (an objectively less valuable player than Avery Bradley). Kyrie, meanwhile, has 2 years and a player option left on his contract. They basically dodge a massive cap hit for 1 more year, and get a younger, more talented point guard to invest in for the long haul.

Isaiah Thomas is a GREAT player, but no way in hell would I be cool with giving a 29 year old 5'9" point guard (who already has injury concerns) a maxed long term contract. It's just too risky.

[Billy Dat]

Isaiah Thomas is a GREAT player, but no way in hell would I be cool with giving a 29 year old 5'9" point guard (who already has injury concerns) a maxed long term contract. It's just too risky.

Yeah - that's definitely a big aspect of this whole trade. A complicating factor is how apparently beloved IT was in Boston. This trade is amazing on so many levels, and further proof that the NBA refuses to be ignored at any point in the sports calendar. The NBA off-season has really become, like, another major sport...the draft, free agency, summer league, social media, crazy trades...while they are happy to be gainfully employed journalists, the NBA writers are begging for mercy, they are having a legit hard time taking vacations!

[CDu]

I think it's pretty key to remember that Isaiah Thomas is on the last year of his very cheap contract, and thinks he deserves a max contract offer in the 2018 off season, which would probably run his team around $30+ million per year. This is the exact same reason they traded Avery Bradley for Marcus Morris (an objectively less valuable player than Avery Bradley). Kyrie, meanwhile, has 2 years and a player option left on his contract. They basically dodge a massive cap hit for 1 more year, and get a younger, more talented point guard to invest in for the long haul.

Isaiah Thomas is a GREAT player, but no way in hell would I be cool with giving a 29 year old 5'9" point guard (who already has injury concerns) a maxed long term contract. It's just too risky.

Well, tecnically they traded Bradley to clear cap space for Hayward. But yes, the main reasons Boston made this trade were (1) Thomas hits free agency one year sooner than Irving, (2) Irving is substantially younger and thus a better fit with the team's future, and (3) Irving at least has the chance of being an adequate defender.

Cleveland improved its chances this season and got flexibility to rebuild quicker with the Nets pick if LeBron leaves. Boston got what it wanted in positioning itself to be tops in the East starting perhaps as soon as 2019 and for years beyond that.

The cost was high. Crowder is a really useful player on a ridiculously cheap contract for the next three years. He basically has a rookie lotto pick contract but with better production. And the Nets pick is still likely to be a high lottery pick. Who knows about Zizic, but reports are at least promising on him. Basically they traded that for a longer-term replacement at PG. High price. Fair price? Maybe. But still a high price.

[budwom]

Yeah - that's definitely a big aspect of this whole trade. A complicating factor is how apparently beloved IT was in Boston. This trade is amazing on so many levels, and further proof that the NBA refuses to be ignored at any point in the sports calendar. The NBA off-season has really become, like, another major sport...the draft, free agency, summer league, social media, crazy trades...while they are happy to be gainfully employed journalists, the NBA writers are begging for mercy, they are having a legit hard time taking vacations!

One Boston writer's take was that Kyrie is the slightly better player, he's younger and has a shorter contract, both of which are plusses...but I agree, good trade for both teams.

[CDu]

One Boston writer's take was that Kyrie is the slightly better player, he's younger and has a shorter contract, both of which are plusses...but I agree, good trade for both teams.

He has a longer contract (by one year). Which is the plus. Thomas and Irving are likely to make about the same amount over the next 2 years and then over the next 4 years after that as well. The difference is Irving is much younger and has a chance to be better defensively. That difference may have made Ainge uncomfortable paying Thomas next summer while not having a problem paying Irving in July 2019.

[kAzE]

Well, tecnically they traded Bradley to clear cap space for Hayward. But yes, the main reasons Boston made this trade were (1) Thomas hits free agency one year sooner than Irving, (2) Irving is substantially younger and thus a better fit with the team's future, and (3) Irving at least has the chance of being an adequate defender.

Cleveland improved its chances this season and got flexibility to rebuild quicker with the Nets pick if LeBron leaves. Boston got what it wanted in positioning itself to be tops in the East starting perhaps as soon as 2019 and for years beyond that.

The cost was high. Crowder is a really useful player on a ridiculously cheap contract for the next three years. He basically has a rookie lotto pick contract but with better production. And the Nets pick is still likely to be a high lottery pick. Who knows about Zizic, but reports are at least promising on him. Basically they traded that for a longer-term replacement at PG. High price. Fair price? Maybe. But still a high price.

You're right that reason for the timing of Bradley trade was to free up enough cap space to sign Hayward, but they only did it because Bradley was in the last year of his deal and would demand a high price tag next year, same as IT. If this wasn't the case, I'm sure they would have found another way to clear enough space.

I think the trade was mostly fair. The reason you have these assets is to land a superstar like Kyrie Irving. Jae Crowder, while a very good role player on a ludicrously great contract, plays more or less the same position as Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown. That was a logjam which was solved in this trade. Crowder was always on the trading block.

The pick is arguably the most valuable asset in Boston side of the trade, but it's uncertain where the pick will land. Using it to land a superstar point guard who is just about to hit his prime makes a lot of sense. Of course they could regret it if it becomes Bagley, but it's more likely going to be someone much less valuable who could take years to develop into a high level NBA player. Boston's championship window is 1-4 years from now, the team they have today is better than the team they had before the trade, and almost all of their players fit that window. I love the trade for both sides.

[Philadukie]

If someone would have told me that Kyrie Irving would be a Celtic at the end of the playoffs this year, I would have laughed out loud in derision. Crazy, crazy offseason.

[kAzE]

I'm very interested how Boston plays with this group, or even if they have another move or 2 to make before the season starts. Right now, they don't have a natural shooting guard OR natural power forward among their top 8-9 players, unless you count Marcus Smart as a 2, or Al Horford as a 4 (he's not, he's a perfect center for the modern NBA).

Bill Simmons predicted Brown would start at the 2. This is a bit out of position for Brown, but I can reasonably believe Brown (who many consider one of the potentially best and most versatile defenders in the league) can defend opposing 2s. He's also not bad at shooting open 3s off the catch.

I think this is how I see their rotation playing out to start the season:

PG: Irving
SG: Brown
SF: Hayward
PF: Morris
C: Horford

6: Tatum
7: Smart
8: Baynes
9: Green/Rozier/Ojeleye?

[Dukehky]

I think this was generally a win-win for both teams. Cleveland had its hands tied since Kyrie asked to leave. Boston had its hands tied in terms of trying to get some value back for Thomas. Boston has accumulated a lot of depth, both in terms of current talent and future picks, but ultimately, there are only 240 minutes of playing time per game to be divided amongst those players.

I wonder if there was any back and forth about whether it would be the Nets pick vs. the Lakers pick that got traded. If I were a Celtics fan, I would be a bit happier about this deal if I had given up the Lakers pick instead of the Nets pick, though we will see how the ping pong balls bounce next spring.

I am a lifelong Knicks fan who really does not like the makeup of the team right now but will have a hard time rooting for the Celtics despite them having two of my favorite former Duke players.

I absolutely love Kyrie, and I think the Celtics did okay with this trade, but Cleveland COULD have made out like bandits. The Cavs got an unprotected pick, that is almost unheard of. You get that on top of a player who had a better year than Kyrie (he's not better, by any stretch of the imagination, and he had Stevens instead of Lue, but IT4 is really good), you get a 7 foot prospect who people like in Zizic, and you get a player who had a down year but provides you a 3 and D guy which is what you want if you have a team with LeBron on it.

Boston obviously gets the star to go alongside Hayward, but I still think Boston is a few years of Tatum and Brown development away from being a legitimate threat. Horford isn't a top 30 player in the league. So Smart is going to get a lot more time and he's useless on offense.

Overall, Cleveland's upside on this is higher than Boston's. IT4 is really good, and Gilbert doesn't mind spending money if they choose to resign him. Crowder is an amazing contract that you could flip (maybe even flip that unprotected pick if a star comes on the market (if PG and the Thunder aren't having a great year and they think he's going to walk comes to mind)). Then you have that unprotected pick that is probably going to fall in the top 5 even if it's less likely that they are as bad as they were last time.

I just think Boston gave up too much when you consider what it took to get George and Butler who are better two way players, even though Irving has 2 years with a third year option left on his deal.

Oh well, crazy trade. The NBA rocks.

[CDu]

Just to be clear: Irving's option year is a player option. He's not picking that option up unless he falls apart as a player and becomes useless (which isn't at all likely). Irving is on a 2-year contract and will be a free agent the 2019 summer.

[TexHawk]

I don’t think you can really evaluate who came out ahead in this trade until we see what this Nets pick turns into.

This is the key for me. The Nets have a new and creative GM, Deangelo Russell, and a few other solid (just not spectacular) players. They also don't have an incentive to tank. While the Bulls, Pacers, Hawks, Kings, and a few others do. With a top heavy draft (4-5 guys), there will be a lot of anxiety in the Cavs front office if Brooklyn plays well.

Also, I don't see how IT helps the Cavs against GSW, at all. He might be the worst perimeter defender in the league. Crowder is good defender, but you can't run out a crunch-time 5 with Thomas and Love and expect to stop people. It's generally not smart to try to outscore the Warriors, the Cavs saw that up close.

[elvis14]

Listening to ESPN this morning, someone was talking about the trade and said that the Cavs could come out ahead because the Nets pick could turn into a great player....like Marvin Bagley (and Porter and a few others). That just made me smile, like last year I can't wait to see our guys play (both in the NBA and at CIS).

Add me to the list of people that think this was a decent trade for both teams and I agree that we'll really know once we see who the Cavs get with that pick.