UNC Athletics Scandal: NCAA response

[sagegrouse]

several reasons; off the top of my head:
* it represents a willful disregard for the truth by someone with the capacity and resources to understand the truth
* he is acting to support the attempts of the wicked to evade justice
* as a supposed expert whose job is to purvey information to the masses, he has an obligation to be informed, transparent and intellectually honest in his accounts (despite the profession of journalism existing at its current low level, distortion is still immoral)
... i'm sure there are more!

The first question to answer is why am I defending Jay Bilas. Of course, I met his mother-in-law many years ago on a bird trip, and I met him in the elevator once at the WaDu.

As I understand the unhappiness here with Jay's positions, it is first disagreement with his belief that the student-athlete concept as defined by the NCAA deprives the student-athletes of basic rights and is an abomination. I see his points, but I do not believe that the violations are fundamental, and I sure don't see how "paying athletes" would retain fair competition on the playing fields and the courts. Second, he believes that the UNC institutional misbehavior in creating ridiculously undemanding courses heavily used by athletes is a matter for the SACSOC, the accrediting agency, not for the NCAA. I also disagree with his position.

But how are his positions a "willful disregard for the truth" or "intellectually (dis)honest?" I don't think Jay's positions distort the facts, so much as he reasons differently from those facts than most of us do, at least on DBR.

immoral -- not conforming to accepted standards of morality.
"an immoral and unwinnable war"
synonyms: unethical, bad, morally wrong, wrongful, wicked, evil, foul, unprincipled, unscrupulous, dishonorable, dishonest, unconscionable, iniquitous, disreputable, corrupt, depraved, vile, villainous, nefarious, base, miscreant;

It seems to me that the definition defines UNC athletics and their enablers.

[duke80]

The first question to answer is why am I defending Jay Bilas. Of course, I met his mother-in-law many years ago on a bird trip, and I met him in the elevator once at the WaDu.

As I understand the unhappiness here with Jay's positions, it is first disagreement with his belief that the student-athlete concept as defined by the NCAA deprives the student-athletes of basic rights and is an abomination. I see his points, but I do not believe that the violations are fundamental, and I sure don't see how "paying athletes" would retain fair competition on the playing fields and the courts. Second, he believes that the UNC institutional misbehavior in creating ridiculously undemanding courses heavily used by athletes is a matter for the SACSOC, the accrediting agency, not for the NCAA. I also disagree with his position.

But how are his positions a "willful disregard for the truth" or "intellectually (dis)honest?" I don't think Jay's positions distort the facts, so much as he reasons differently from those facts than most of us do, at least on DBR.


It seems to me that the definition defines UNC athletics and their enablers.

I'm a fan sagegrouse. I enjoy your posts and presence on the board. I'm sorry but I just see Jay as a mouthpiece for UNC not for himself. He has gone so overboard waving their flag that it doesn't seem genuine or objective. He is defender of UNC not of the facts. How is he benefiting? I don't know. But if it looks and sounds like a duck...

I'm amazed at UNC and all the apologists trying to rewrite or divert attention from what happened. Jay, you seem like a great guy, but your statements seem disingenuous to me. Imagine for a minute the gymnastics it would take to get someone through college with many of their classes being set up specifically so that they did not have to study, take tests, go to class or even write their own paper in some cases? That took a lot of effort, working behind the scenes, and planning. However, the only people that apparently benefited were the coaches through the bonuses in their contracts. Why don't they donate those bonuses to the school, back to the students or to a non-profit?

[CameronBlue]

I was mostly riffing on the "Period.", just trying to have a little fun. I should have added blithering. Perhaps idiot was a bit much, but public figures ask for (and often deserve) it.

However, when your Holy Grail (am I using that correctly?) is the mistreatment of student-athletes, it is truly idiotic to defend probably (inarguably?) the worst mistreatment of student-athletes in the history of college sports. The NCAA is far from perfect, but at least they're trying to ensure a level playing field and that the athletes get some kind of an education since most won't be making big bucks as pros.

So when someone's acts and statements are idiotic, I guess they're an idiot.

That's what I assumed (and should have stated so); Jay invites abuse on the topic and it would be uncouth not to accommodate him. Because it actually does bug me when Jay goes into his Tar Heel boot-licking routine I thought the "Jay's a blithering idiot" theme needed a more nuanced discussion and your post provided a nice jumping off point. The posts that followed mine provided some of that nuance. I don't think Jay deserves the cover that "we'll just have to agree to disagree" provides, which tends to be where more superficial conversations end. He's dead wrong. It's kindof fitting as well that he's a Dukie...to your point.

[Indoor66]

That's what I assumed (and should have stated so); Jay invites abuse on the topic and it would be uncouth not to accommodate him. Because it actually does bug me when Jay goes into his Tar Heel boot-licking routine I thought the "Jay's a blithering idiot" theme needed a more nuanced discussion and your post provided a nice jumping off point. The posts that followed mine provided some of that nuance. I don't think Jay deserves the cover that "we'll just have to agree to disagree" provides, which tends to be where more superficial conversations end. He's dead wrong. It's kindof fitting as well that he's a Dukie...to your point.

Nuance is wayyyyyy overrated by today's oversensitive society.

[-jk]

Nuance is wayyyyyy overrated by today's oversensitive society.

Nuance can be verrrry hard to convey in writing...

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

Nuance can be verrrry hard to convey in writing...

-jk

Let alone in emoji's, or in 140 characters. #meanitjustalittle

[Indoor66]

Let alone in emoji's, or in 140 characters. #meanitjustalittle

Isn't the answer to say what you mean, directly?

[davekay1971]

Let alone [...] in 140 characters. #meanitjustalittle

Roy and UNC are being treated very unfairly by Dan Kane and the failing NandO. Low ratings. Fake news. SAD!

[OldPhiKap]

Isn't the answer to say what you mean, directly?

Well, there are 171,476 recognized words in the English language per Oxford's selections. ( https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/ex...glish-language ). Plus untold thousands upon thousands of idioms, cliches, memes, quotes, and adopted foreign words/phrases. Yet, the culture moves towards pictograms and a short series of grunt-blurbs, the forms of communication used by early cave-dwellers.

Oh, and our music was better too.

#Sad :-(


I do, however, have a very short statement about what I hope happens to UNC this week at the COI hearing. It starts with "I hope they," and then it ends with some metaphorical negativity.

[devildeac]

Barry Jacobs' thoughts from the N&O this AM:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...166822887.html

[davekay1971]

I do, however, have a very short statement about what I hope happens to UNC this week at the COI hearing. It starts with "I hope they," and then it ends with some metaphorical negativity.

I also have a short statement about that. It begins the same then ventures into NSFW territory involving prisons, Ramsay Bolton, and his hungry dogs.

[OldPhiKap]

Barry Jacobs' thoughts from the N&O this AM:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...166822887.html

Nail
Head

[dudog84]

Another thing I find very unsettling about Bilas, he appears to only care about money. He’s rich now (I have no idea of his childhood or career plans pre-Duke), and he’s rich because of his education and certainly not because of his basketball skills. He did get his education because of his basketball skills. Maybe money is all he sees. That would be unfortunate, because there is a lot more to life.

His whole problem with the NCAA is about monetary compensation for student-athletes. Nothing about fair competition or the other ways in which his treasured student-athletes might be manipulated or mistreated.

And I’ve heard nothing from him about the inherent racism of the uNC scheme. Yes I’m going there, and I’m a white guy. He doesn’t speak (as far as I’m aware) that the majority of this scheme was run through the AFAM department, AND that this is the only department being scrutinized and criticized.

Here’s another thing…We’ve heard a lot about the percentage of athletes that were in these courses. I’d like to see the percentage of African-American athletes in these courses, and the overall percentage of African-Americans among all uNC athletes. I guess we’ll never know because of FERPA, and I doubt anyone on the COI is interested in going there.

Sorry about the rant, but I hate willful ignorance, and I believe that (at a minimum) is what Bilas is exhibiting. They should all be ashamed.

[dudog84]

Well, there are 171,476 recognized words in the English language per Oxford's selections. ( https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/ex...glish-language ). Plus untold thousands upon thousands of idioms, cliches, memes, quotes, and adopted foreign words/phrases. Yet, the culture moves towards pictograms and a short series of grunt-blurbs, the forms of communication used by early cave-dwellers.

Oh, and our music was better too.

#Sad :-(


I do, however, have a very short statement about what I hope happens to UNC this week at the COI hearing. It starts with "I hope they," and then it ends with some metaphorical negativity.

Grunt-blurbs, heh heh. Can I use that? You may want to copyright/trademark that.

[CDu]

I hate to be in the position of defending Bilas on this. But I think it is important to point out that Bilas is in no way defending what happened at UNC. He has said numerous times that it was absolutely deplorable. He just doesn't view it as the jurisdiction of the NCAA.

I disagree with him on this, not the least of which because is that if UNC skates there will never be any incentive for a school to even consider having players take real classes. I think he's wrong, and hope the NCAA will hammer UNC for it. But his defense against the NCAA doesn't "immoral" to me. Misguided maybe. But not immoral.

[hudlow]

If uNC and Bilas don't agree with the NCAA's attempts to monitor their member institutions...let's see them their cut ties with The NCAA.

That'll show us, won't it?

[sagegrouse]

Barry Jacobs' thoughts from the N&O this AM:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...166822887.html

Nail
Head

I agree.

What was informative about the Jacobs article is the the possible clarification around this endless investigation and prolonged and bitter dispute.

I thought, early on, that UNC was moving to air out the violations and get them in its wake: (a) Hiring of Wainstein by the UNC Board (state-wide version) and (b) various public statements by Carol Folt and Bubba. Then, all of a sudden, UNC goes full-metal jacket against the NCAA. Wha' happened?

UNC, guided in part by a former member of the NCAA enforcement staff, chose a different route, giving the governing body of college athletics a bold, public, middle-finger salute. The stance is at odds with the June 2015 declaration by athletic director Bubba Cunningham that “everybody wants to bring closure to this.” Perhaps leaders in Chapel Hill have tried to quietly compromise, as rumored, and were rebuffed.

The cost to UNC of this intransigence?

“In a crisis, timing is everything,” says Kathleen Hessert, founder and CEO of Sports Media Challenge, a longstanding Charlotte-based “reputation management company and social media consulting firm.” “They have let this drag out way, way too long.”
....
“Stubbornness doesn’t help here,” Hessert says. She urges a less dated, defensive approach in favor of a “solid strategy to communicate going forward” to reach constituencies (alums, athletes, fans, etc.) that care about the school. But cleansing UNC’s name, now widely rendered as synonymous with organized cheating, will take more work than that.

[OldPhiKap]

"guided in part by a former member of the NCAA enforcement staff"

To whom does this refer? This is a relation which has heretofore eluded me.

[budwom]

I hate to be in the position of defending Bilas on this. But I think it is important to point out that Bilas is in no way defending what happened at UNC. He has said numerous times that it was absolutely deplorable. He just doesn't view it as the jurisdiction of the NCAA.

I disagree with him on this, not the least of which because is that if UNC skates there will never be any incentive for a school to even consider having players take real classes. I think he's wrong, and hope the NCAA will hammer UNC for it. But his defense against the NCAA doesn't "immoral" to me. Misguided maybe. But not immoral.

But he has also (repeatedly) misstated the charges against unc, claiming multiple times that the NOI did not specifically mention men's hoops when it clearly did. (yes, I know it named men's hoops, then didn't then did again)...

[CDu]

But he has also (repeatedly) misstated the charges against unc, claiming multiple times that the NOI did not specifically mention men's hoops when it clearly did. (yes, I know it named men's hoops, then didn't then did again)...

Oh I definitely don't agree with him. Misguided/uninformed I can buy. Immoral I cannot. I was just arguing against the "immoral" comment, not that Bilas is in any way right on this issue.