UNC Athletics Scandal: NCAA response

[devildeac]

I dunno. Maybe they just want to tell them in person what a great job they've done, keeping their programs clean and all. You know, a laurel and a hearty handshake kind of thing.

Abbot and Costello can appear, too, along with a couple other Marx.

[PackMan97]

"In fact, as noted below, the ASPSA counselors instead viewed these courses as options where student-athletes did not have to attend class, stay awake and take notes, meet with professors, turn in their work or even pay attention.

Even Crowder herself was uneasy about how these courses were used for student-athletes. When asked to enroll a student-athlete in a course section alone, without any other students, she mentioned that it "raised too many red flags." Further, when asked for a favor by an athletics academic counselor, she mentioned that she could not do it because, "we have a little academic credibility to uphold.""

Game.
Set.
Match.

I know Thor: Ragnorok is coming out this fall in where Hela destroys Mjilnor...but the release date is not until Nov...long after the Hammre of Thor will fall upon the Tarheels.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

For anyone who might have been worried that the NCAA staff was not paying attention to all the evidence and connecting the dots, you can put those concerns to rest. They specifically referenced a variety of commonly cited emails and other evidence. For example...

-- Referencing the infamous PowerPoint slide: In fact, as noted below, the ASPSA counselors instead viewed these courses as options where student-athletes did not have to attend class, stay awake and take notes, meet with professors, turn in their work or even pay attention to the material.

-- Referencing Crowder emails: Even Crowder herself was uneasy about how these courses were used for student-athletes. When asked to enroll a student-athlete in a course section alone, without any other students, she mentioned that it "raised too many red flags." Further, when asked for a favor by an athletics academic counselor, she mentioned that she could not do it because, "we have a little academic credibility to uphold.
​
The NCAA appears to have acquired the Hammer of Thor.

EDIT: I was so busy reading and copying in juicy tidbits that I missed Packman posting the same two quotes 8 minutes earlier!!!

[devildeac]

Attachment 7545


the time has come...

Wait, I thought they were gonna skate...



(They still might but reading some of the Enforcement Committee's response and the posts here, there may indeed be some heavy hammerin' a'comin...)

[devildeac]

Attachment 7545


the time has come...

Are you referring to this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Has_Come_Today

Had to put one in moonpie's world of expertise .

[thedukelamere]

Unlike many extra benefit cases that involve specific and identifiable student-athletes, this case
presents systemic problems that resulted in institutional administrators providing extra benefits to a
population of student-athletes over the course of nearly 10 years. In light of how the violations
unfolded, the passage of time and the lack of personally identifying information in the institution's
records, it is not possible to specifically list each student-athlete who received an extra benefit. The
enforcement staff appreciates the challenge this presents in fashioning penalties. However, the
enforcement staff does not believe the violation analysis should be impacted by the systemic nature of
the behaviors at issue or the lack of precise detail in the materials produced by the institution. Put
simply, serious violations occurred even if factual information in the record does not identify each
instance or each student-athlete who benefited.

This makes me a bit nervous r/e the banners coming down... I would have felt a lot better with the typical "here is the list of your ineligible athletes, please tell us which wins we need to vacate for you."

[dudog84]

Cliffs notes version of the enforcement staff's case for extra benefits:

Thanks very much for that. I'm too old to have been diagnosed with ADD but I don't have the patience to read all of it.

From your many posts you seem to have a great handle on the details and NCAA rules. Have you also read other NCAA/university interactions? (Syracuse, Louisville, etc.) Is their tone always like this?

[swood1000]

Wainstein had said that 47.4 percent of enrollees in the paper classes were student-athletes. In its response, UNC claimed that the number was actually 26.3 percent. The enforcement staff said that while they dispute UNC’s method of calculation, the lower percentage is immaterial since it is uncontroverted that student-athletes constituted only 3 percent of the student body population and either number shows a disproportionately high number of student-athletes enrolled in the courses, which could not have happened without preferential access.

[swood1000]

Thanks very much for that. I'm too old to have been diagnosed with ADD but I don't have the patience to read all of it.

From your many posts you seem to have a great handle on the details and NCAA rules. Have you also read other NCAA/university interactions? (Syracuse, Louisville, etc.) Is their tone always like this?

The tone seems a bit more strident than usual, but in the normal case the institution is not claiming with injured dignity that it is the victim of a grevious miscarriage of justice, and is innocent of all but the most minor of the charges.

[Pghdukie]

I'm just preparing myself for another paper dump. It's just the Cheats way.

[swood1000]

Unlike many extra benefit cases that involve specific and identifiable student-athletes, this case
presents systemic problems that resulted in institutional administrators providing extra benefits to a
population of student-athletes over the course of nearly 10 years. In light of how the violations
unfolded, the passage of time and the lack of personally identifying information in the institution's
records, it is not possible to specifically list each student-athlete who received an extra benefit. The
enforcement staff appreciates the challenge this presents in fashioning penalties. However, the
enforcement staff does not believe the violation analysis should be impacted by the systemic nature of
the behaviors at issue or the lack of precise detail in the materials produced by the institution. Put
simply, serious violations occurred even if factual information in the record does not identify each
instance or each student-athlete who benefited.

This makes me a bit nervous r/e the banners coming down... I would have felt a lot better with the typical "here is the list of your ineligible athletes, please tell us which wins we need to vacate for you."

I had the same thought when reading that, but they're not saying that no specific student-athletes have been mentioned, and they only need one or two to wipe out entire seasons and championships. I think they're just making the argument that this thing was worse than the sum of the individual student-athletes mentioned (in the redacted parts of various documents) because the absence of personally identifying information in the institution's records kept them from being able to cite all instances of misconduct.

[swood1000]

It was also pointed out that UNC or their allies repeatedly broke the rules, knowing that they wouldn’t get called on it, for to do so would require yet another NOA and consequent delay. The enforcement staff said that Crowder’s attorney made public disclosures to Inside Carolina in violation of the Bylaws, and that Bubba Cunningham made public statements to CBS concerning the merits of the case and the potential bias of the COI chairman, also in violation of the Bylaws, but the enforcement staff said they decided not to issue an amended NOA.

The letter from Greg Sankey also stated that COI Internal Operating Procedures limit responses to 50 pages but UNC’s response was approximately 2,500 pages, 2,400 of which were attachments. But the COI accepted it in order to keep on schedule.

[-jk]

Unlike many extra benefit cases that involve specific and identifiable student-athletes, this case
presents systemic problems that resulted in institutional administrators providing extra benefits to a
population of student-athletes over the course of nearly 10 years. In light of how the violations
unfolded, the passage of time and the lack of personally identifying information in the institution's
records, it is not possible to specifically list each student-athlete who received an extra benefit. The
enforcement staff appreciates the challenge this presents in fashioning penalties. However, the
enforcement staff does not believe the violation analysis should be impacted by the systemic nature of
the behaviors at issue or the lack of precise detail in the materials produced by the institution. Put
simply, serious violations occurred even if factual information in the record does not identify each
instance or each student-athlete who benefited.

This makes me a bit nervous r/e the banners coming down... I would have felt a lot better with the typical "here is the list of your ineligible athletes, please tell us which wins we need to vacate for you."

They're gonna skate...

-jk

[swood1000]

In their argument for Lack of Institutional Control the enforcement staff pointed out that the former director of compliance had actual knowledge of these classes but did not follow up or take any action.

The compliance staff did, however, have actual knowledge of the "special arrangement" courses. In an email between Brent Blanton, athletics academic counselor, and Amy Hermann (Hermann), former director of compliance, Hermann refers to the "infamous paper classes." Nowhere does the record indicate any follow up by the compliance staff concerning the "special arrangement courses," Boxill's relationship with women's basketball student-athletes or ASPSA's close relationship with the AFRI/AFAM department.

[swood1000]

They're gonna skate...

-jk

They skate only if the enforcement staff cannot list any MBB player who received an extra benefit. But how about these emails:
 

FI118: January 5, 2005 – Email from Crowder to Walden. This includes, but is not limited to, Crowder discussing men's basketball student-athletes and the courses to which she added them.
(Item2_CrowderToWalden_010505_NorthCarolina_00231)

FI159: August 4, 2008 – Email from Walden to Crowder. This includes, but is not limited to, Walden thanking Crowder for enrolling student-athletes in a course. (Item4_WaldenToCrowder_2of2_080408_NorthCarolina_0 0231)

FI160: August 26, 2008 – Email from Walden to Crowder. This includes, but is not limited to, Walden's request that Crowder add a student-athlete to an AFAM course. (Item4_WaldenToCrowder_082608_NorthCarolina_00231)

 
If you think they skate you need to explain why the COI didn't just let them skate on NOA-2, and why the COI would insist on allegations of extra benefits only to ignore them.

[aimo]

But but but but but I thought the basketball team wasn't referenced?!!:

That is EXACTLY what I was going to say!

[cspan37421]

In their argument for Lack of Institutional Control the enforcement staff pointed out that the former director of compliance had actual knowledge of these classes but did not follow up or take any action.

Not to throw a wet blanket on things, but consider what university subsequently hired Amy Hermann.

And V. Ashby, of UNC's well-connected, let's move along, nothing to see here, chemistry dept.

At least Holden Thorp and his s--- eating grin went to WUSTL.

[swood1000]

Not to throw a wet blanket on things, but consider what university subsequently hired Amy Hermann.

And V. Ashby, of UNC's well-connected, let's move along, nothing to see here, chemistry dept.

At least Holden Thorp and his s--- eating grin went to WUSTL.

I don't think that hiring an incompetent compliance staff is going to rouse much sympathy from the COI panel.

[BigWayne]

Not to throw a wet blanket on things, but consider what university subsequently hired Amy Hermann.

And V. Ashby, of UNC's well-connected, let's move along, nothing to see here, chemistry dept.

At least Holden Thorp and his s--- eating grin went to WUSTL.

I am hopeful that Duke's administration would not condone the environment these two were involved in down the road in cheatville.
If they do, they won't have me as a fan any longer.

[UrinalCake]

This hearing will take place in Cheekwood ABC meeting rooms at the Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center

That is absolutely the perfect location for this meeting to take place. ABC, baby!