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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC

    UNC Athletics Scandal: NCAA response

    The NCAA's response has been released by UNC.

    http://carolinacommitment.unc.edu/un...ords-requests/
       

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    I don't know what this means, but there's no way that's a good sign for the CHeats.
    I dunno. Maybe they just want to tell them in person what a great job they've done, keeping their programs clean and all. You know, a laurel and a hearty handshake kind of thing.
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    The NCAA's response has been released by UNC.

    http://carolinacommitment.unc.edu/un...ords-requests/
    Wow. Initial reading of this document looks encouraging.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    ^ yeah, I have only skimmed it briefly but it sounds like they are calling UNC out on all their BS and refuting the school's attempts at getting various charges thrown out.
       

  5. #5
    "It is standard practice for the current head coaches of programs referenced in a notice of allegations to attend."

    But but but but but I thought the basketball team wasn't referenced?!!

    This is the best Wine and Cheese Day I can remember.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    "The issues at the heart of this case are clearly the NCAA's business. When a member institution
    allows an academic department to provide benefits to student-athletes that are materially different from
    the general student body, it is the NCAA's business. When athletics academic counselors exploit
    "special arrangement" classes for student-athletes in ways unintended by and contrary to the bylaws,
    it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution provides student-athletes an inside track to enroll
    in unpublicized courses where grades of As and Bs are the norm,1 it is the NCAA's business. When a
    member institution uses "special arrangement" courses to keep a significant number of student-athletes
    eligible, it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution fails or refuses to take action after
    receiving actual notice of problems involving student-athletes, thereby allowing violations to
    compound and to continue for years, it is the NCAA's business. In sum, it is an NCAA matter when
    other member schools who choose not to provide impermissible benefits are disadvantaged by their
    commitment to compliance."

    Exactly!
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by moonpie23 View Post
    this is what makes me sick...


    "Carolina lawyers point out that similar "paper courses" at Michigan and Auburn did not draw penalties. Furthermore, they claim the statute of limitations for a Letter of Inquiry goes back just four years (to 2010), thus keeping the 2005 basketball triumph (over Illinois) out of reach."
    From the NCAA response of 07/17/2017 (p.19)
    The institution also discusses the applicability of Bylaw 10.01.1, the use of "student-athlete" courses by other institutions and matters purportedly involving the University of Michigan and Auburn University. The enforcement staff believes all of these issues are without merit and do not warrant a discussion in its written reply. The enforcement staff is, however, prepared to discuss these issues at the hearing if the panel desires.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    "The issues at the heart of this case are clearly the NCAA's business. When a member institution
    allows an academic department to provide benefits to student-athletes that are materially different from
    the general student body, it is the NCAA's business. When athletics academic counselors exploit
    "special arrangement" classes for student-athletes in ways unintended by and contrary to the bylaws,
    it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution provides student-athletes an inside track to enroll
    in unpublicized courses where grades of As and Bs are the norm,1 it is the NCAA's business. When a
    member institution uses "special arrangement" courses to keep a significant number of student-athletes
    eligible, it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution fails or refuses to take action after
    receiving actual notice of problems involving student-athletes, thereby allowing violations to
    compound and to continue for years, it is the NCAA's business. In sum, it is an NCAA matter when
    other member schools who choose not to provide impermissible benefits are disadvantaged by their
    commitment to compliance."

    Exactly!
    Righteous indignation is one of my favorite closing motifs at trial. That is very well-played.
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Carolina Beach
    Quote Originally Posted by thedukelamere View Post
    "It is standard practice for the current head coaches of programs referenced in a notice of allegations to attend."

    But but but but but I thought the basketball team wasn't referenced?!!
    Huck is there for moral support & to make sure Sylvia is properly thrown under the bus....& backed over & over & over...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Carolina Beach
    Quote Originally Posted by chrishoke View Post
    "The issues at the heart of this case are clearly the NCAA's business. When a member institution
    allows an academic department to provide benefits to student-athletes that are materially different from
    the general student body, it is the NCAA's business. When athletics academic counselors exploit
    "special arrangement" classes for student-athletes in ways unintended by and contrary to the bylaws,
    it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution provides student-athletes an inside track to enroll
    in unpublicized courses where grades of As and Bs are the norm,1 it is the NCAA's business. When a
    member institution uses "special arrangement" courses to keep a significant number of student-athletes
    eligible, it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution fails or refuses to take action after
    receiving actual notice of problems involving student-athletes, thereby allowing violations to
    compound and to continue for years, it is the NCAA's business. In sum, it is an NCAA matter when
    other member schools who choose not to provide impermissible benefits are disadvantaged by their
    commitment to compliance."

    Exactly!
    I kept hoping that the behavior of UNC would eventually push the NCAA to a point where they became angry..I think that might just be the case..

  11. #11
    BaddaBing, BaddaBoom.

    The Hammer of Thor is about to fall at the Dump on the Hump and they will never put Humpty Dumpty together again after the Noze Dome is imploded.

    (I never mix metaphors!)

  12. #12
    "The benefits here are not at all similar to the permissible supports identified by member schools in Bylaw 16. On the contrary, the
    access and assistance provided by the institution here do not help "maximize the academic
    performances of student-athletes."51 Rather, they alleviated the academic responsibilities for students
    that help them develop both as learners and adults. Instead of supporting academic and long-term
    success of student-athletes, they cut against this core principle of the Association.
    p. 16

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Tweet from Jeff Gravley @ WRAL, retweeted by Arowe:

    "Roy Williams, Larry Fedora, Sylvia Hatchell are requested to attend NCAA hearings with Committee on Infractions Aug. 16"

    Arowe's tag-on: "Not a basketball issue" ;-)
    WTH?

    I thought MBB and FB were NOT mentioned .

    Does Sylvia get to show up with her own, personal bus driver?
    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    I'd tell ya, but then I'd have to kill ya
    Quote Originally Posted by UrinalCake View Post
    The NCAA's response has been released by UNC.

    http://carolinacommitment.unc.edu/un...ords-requests/
    I only read the first few pages of each (anyone have Cliffs notes?), and have never read any other NCAA proceedings with other universities so have nothing to compare, but it appears that the NCAA is severely P*ssed Off.

    uNC may have overplayed their hand. It was crappy to begin with, so maybe the big bluff was their only chance. In poker, the big bluff will only lose you what you choose to put in the pot. uNC won't be so fortunate.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    august-2017-calendar.jpg


    the time has come....
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by grad_devil View Post
    Wow. Initial reading of this document looks encouraging.
    If you don't want to waste a bunch of time trying to figure out what will happen next, just read pages 2 and 3 of this document. It's pretty clear the COI and the enforcement staff have packed their bag of hammers for this upcoming meeting.

  17. #17
    This hearing will take place in Cheekwood ABC meeting rooms at the Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center, 2800 Opryland
    Drive, Nashville, Tennessee 37214
    . The panel has set aside two full days for this hearing.
    NCAA infractions hearings are closed to the public, and the information discussed during
    these hearings is considered confidential, as is the date, time and location of the hearing.

    I'm confused as to whether or not we should know when and where this is taking place on the 16th... Sounds like it should have been redacted before being published? Or am I reading that last sentence wrong?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    I only read the first few pages of each (anyone have Cliffs notes?), and have never read any other NCAA proceedings with other universities so have nothing to compare, but it appears that the NCAA is severely P*ssed Off.

    uNC may have overplayed their hand. It was crappy to begin with, so maybe the big bluff was their only chance. In poker, the big bluff will only lose you what you choose to put in the pot. uNC won't be so fortunate.
    Cliffs notes version of the enforcement staff's case for extra benefits:

    The issues at the heart of this case are clearly the NCAA's business. When a member institution allows an academic department to provide benefits to student-athletes that are materially different from the general student body, it is the NCAA's business. When athletics academic counselors exploit "special arrangement" classes for student-athletes in ways unintended by and contrary to the bylaws, it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution provides student-athletes an inside track to enroll in unpublicized courses where grades of As and Bs are the norm, it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution uses "special arrangement" courses to keep a significant number of student-athletes eligible, it is the NCAA's business. When a member institution fails or refuses to take action after receiving actual notice of problems involving student-athletes, thereby allowing violations to compound and to continue for years, it is the NCAA's business. In sum, it is an NCAA matter when other member schools who choose not to provide impermissible benefits are disadvantaged by their commitment to compliance. …

    Rather, the institution argues that the same arrangements were generally available to other students. The argument is incorrect and mischaracterizes the clear statements of numerous individuals with personal knowledge of the special arrangements. …

    Crowder and the AFRI/AFAM department began offering anomalous or "special arrangement" courses in 1999. These were closed enrollment classes where Crowder had almost exclusive enrollment authority. They were not published as options in the student catalog and they were not advertised in the institution's schedule of classes. …

    Because the institution did not make them known or generally available, students could only learn about these "special arrangement" courses through arts and sciences advisors, word of mouth, Crowder herself or athletics academic counselors. They were not listed with other courses and a student needed one of these limited connections to learn of the classes. Unlike other courses that were published, advertised and officially made known by the institution, these were open only to a select group with inside knowledge and were not generally available to the student body. …

    However, the dramatically high student-athlete enrollment is a clear manifestation and illustration of the extra benefit of preferential access. The proportionally small universe of student-athletes could not have enrolled in such high numbers absent the preferential access Crowder provided them through her relationship with ASPSA. …

    There is no information in the record suggesting that [Crowder] made similar "group enrollment" accommodations for any other segment of campus. …

    Rather, Crowder stated that she made "special arrangements" for student-athletes because classes sometimes impacted a student-athlete's practice time.

    Although other arts and sciences advisors were generally aware of the availability of "special arrangements," the athletics academic counselors in ASPSA knew Crowder and Nyang'oro and had an inside track to learn about these unpublicized courses and to enroll student-athletes in them. …As a result, athletics academic counselors leveraged these relationships to benefit student-athletes in ways not available to the general student body. …

    As a result, over the course of nearly a decade, student-athletes were enrolled in "special arrangement" classes at a rate 10 times greater than their representation in the student body, at a minimum, and as high as a one-to-one ratio with their general student colleagues. …

    Primarily, athletics academic counselors used these courses to help maintain NCAA eligibility for student-athletes who were at risk academically. This, along with other benefits, such as the ability to control and monitor the administration of these courses, meant that student-athletes did not need to attend class or meet with AFRI/AFAM faculty or staff. …

    The preferential access to the "special arrangement" courses and the corresponding course assistance provided the institution a competitive advantage because it allowed the institution to admit a significant number of student-athletes who were at risk. …

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by thedukelamere View Post
    This hearing will take place in Cheekwood ABC meeting rooms at the Gaylord Opryland Resort and Convention Center, 2800 Opryland
    Drive, Nashville, Tennessee 37214
    . The panel has set aside two full days for this hearing.
    NCAA infractions hearings are closed to the public, and the information discussed during
    these hearings is considered confidential, as is the date, time and location of the hearing.

    I'm confused as to whether or not we should know when and where this is taking place on the 16th... Sounds like it should have been redacted before being published? Or am I reading that last sentence wrong?
    Probably just another sad attempt to get a delay introduced while they identify a new secret location.

  20. #20
    We are not UnCheat. Read the damned response. It is quite enlightening!
       

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