Grayson Allen points chase: to 2000 and beyond

[curtis325]

I still haven't gotten over Bob Verga getting strep throat in 1966.

And don't get me started on Casey Stengel not starting Whitey Ford three times in the 1960 World Series.

Who was that shortstop on those 1960 World Serious champions?

Go Buccos!

[throatybeard]

Well, Duke's top 10 in SCORING AVERAGE:

1. Heyman 25.1
2. Groat 23.0
3. Verga 22.0
4. Mullins 21.9
5. Redick 19.9
6. Denton 19.7
7. Jason Williams 19.3
8. Johnny Dawkins 19.2
9. Gminski 19.0
10. Spararkel 17.6

Actually, Jabari Parker averaged 19.1, but isn't listed (because he played just one year?)

Typing this ist reminds me once again that Randy Denton is the forgotten great in Duke history -- sixth all time in scoring average and first in rebounding (12.7 a game for his career).

The 3-point shot would also have made a huge difference for some early stars -- especially Verga, who probably average 3-6 3-pointers a game. Heyman was more a driver and a midrange shooter. I didn't see Groat, but his reputation was as a driver, not a shooter. Mullins shot some long ones, but he was mostly a mid-range shooter.

So in addition to the 3 issue, what would those averages look like if you adjusted them to reflect tempo?

In stretches of the 1960s, there were a lot of games with high scores, high shot attempts, high rebounds. But at other times, like surrounding 1980, scores were lower and more keepaway was deployed, and Terry Holland and Dean Smith took turns stabbing the air out of the basketballs, with a toddler Tom Brady at their ankles, cackling maniacally.

Basically, it doesn't seem surprising that the guys at the top of that list are earlier guys except for Redick (the most 3-dependent average on the list). And then Gminski and Spanarkel are at the bottom of the top 10, when scoring averages were down in general.

If memory serves. I don't have any numbers in front of me. Points per possession, something something.

[jimsumner]

Who was that shortstop on those 1960 World Serious champions?

Go Buccos!

Dick Schofield?

[curtis325]

Dick Schofield?

Correct!

Ducky took over for MVP Dick Groat after Groat had a wrist injury.

[curtis325]

Correct!

Ducky took over for MVP Dick Groat after Groat had a wrist injury.

Groat did return for the Serious.

[DukeFanSince1990]

I saw this article about Grayson on my twitter feed. I thought is was well done.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/hating-...blem/17117091/

[Olympic Fan]

So in addition to the 3 issue, what would those averages look like if you adjusted them to reflect tempo?

Not as much fluctuation in scoring as you'd think.

The Duke record of 92.2 ppg was set in 1965, but most of the scoring averages in that decade were in the mid-80s.

Actually, that's the norm -- somewhere from 82-88 ppg.

There have been some exceptions.

-- The last two years of Harold Bradley and the first year of Vic Bubas, Duke averaged in the mid-60s.
-- The Bucky Waters teams usually played in the mid-70s (with one year at 68.4)
-- The last two years of Bill Foster dropped off to the low 70s .. and the first two years of Coach K were in the 60s. That changed in 1983

There have been a few years in the high 70s since (an exceptional low of 70.4 in 2007), but also some years in the very high 80s and twice in the 90s (1999 and 2001).

Now, I understand that scoring average is not a total reflection of tempo (offensive efficiency plays a large part) ... still, it's a reflection of how the game was played. Heyman is interesting since the three years before his arrival were the lowest scoring stretch for Duke in the ACC era ... and in his three years, the scoring shot up to 81, 82 and 83 points a game.

[grad_devil]

Grayson scored 10 against Southern and 5 against Furman - not a great couple of games, but enough to pass Carlos Boozer into 30th place on the all-time scoring list.

Points as of 11/21/2017	1516
	Min	Max
Games Remaining	28	35
Avg to top 20	8.64	6.91
Avg to 2k	17.29	13.83
Avg to top 10	20.04	16.03
Avg to JJ	44.75	35.80

Duke Career Scoring Leaders

	Name	Pts
1	JJ Redick	2769
2	Johnny Dawkins	2556
3	Christian Laettner	2460
4	Kyle Singler	2392
5	Mike Gminski	2323
6	Danny Ferry	2155
7	Mark Alarie	2136
8	Gene Banks	2079
8	Jason Williams	2079
10	Jon Scheyer	2077
11	Jim Spanarkel	2012
12	Art Heyman	1984
12	Shane Battier	1984
14	Shelden Willaims	1928
15	Trajan Langdon	1974
16	Grant Hill	1924
17	Nolan Smith	1911
18	Dick Groat	1886
19	Jeff Mullins	1884
20	Bob Verga	1758
21	Bobby Hurley	1731
22	Randy Denton	1658
23	Ronnie Mayer	1647
24	Cherokee Parks	1643
25	Jeff Capel	1601
26	Daniel Ewing	1595
27	Thomas Hill	1594
28	Quinn Cook	1571
29	David Henderson	1570
30	Grayson Allen	1516
31	Carlos Boozer	1506

[DukeTrinity11]

I predict that Grayson will end up at #8 in our all time scoring list behind Alarie but barely nudging by Gene Banks, Jon Scheyer and Jason Williams.

[AGDukesky]

I hope he passes Quinn in Portland

[BandAlum83]

I hope he passes Quinn in Portland

Not an unreasonable hope. >55 points in 3 games? I really do hope so as well.

[CDu]

Grayson scored 10 against Southern and 5 against Furman - not a great couple of games, but enough to pass Carlos Boozer into 30th place on the all-time scoring list.

Points as of 11/21/2017	1516
	Min	Max
Games Remaining	28	35
Avg to top 20	8.64	6.91
Avg to 2k	17.29	13.83
Avg to top 10	20.04	16.03
Avg to JJ	44.75	35.80

I would propose dropping the "Avg to JJ" as that simply isn't going to happen. Maybe a more interesting would be "Avg to top 5", which at least has an outside chance of happening.

[duke4ever19]

I would propose dropping the "Avg to JJ" as that simply isn't going to happen. Maybe a more interesting would be "Avg to top 5", which at least has an outside chance of happening.

I agree.

At this point Grayson would have to be putting up cartoonish/Maravich numbers from here to the end of the season in order to get there.

Remember "Jimmer fever" a few years ago? Well, Jimmer Fredette was averaging 28.9 points per game. That's a lot of points, but it still wouldn't be good enough to catch JJ.

[grad_devil]

I would propose dropping the "Avg to JJ" as that simply isn't going to happen. Maybe a more interesting would be "Avg to top 5", which at least has an outside chance of happening.

I'll leave the JJ numbers, just because it will remind us all what a scoring savant he was, but I'll add the "Avg to top 5" numbers, even though Grayson needs to find his shot again, IMHO, if he's to reach that mark.

Points as of 11/25/2017	1542
	Min	Max
Games Remaining	26	33
Avg to top 20	8.31	6.55
Avg to 2k	17.62	13.88
Avg to top 10	20.58	16.21
Avg to top 5	30.04	23.67
Avg to JJ	47.19	37.18

Duke Career Scoring Leaders

	Name	Pts
1	JJ Redick	2769
2	Johnny Dawkins	2556
3	Christian Laettner	2460
4	Kyle Singler	2392
5	Mike Gminski	2323
6	Danny Ferry	2155
7	Mark Alarie	2136
8	Gene Banks	2079
8	Jason Williams	2079
10	Jon Scheyer	2077
11	Jim Spanarkel	2012
12	Art Heyman	1984
12	Shane Battier	1984
14	Shelden Willaims	1928
15	Trajan Langdon	1974
16	Grant Hill	1924
17	Nolan Smith	1911
18	Dick Groat	1886
19	Jeff Mullins	1884
20	Bob Verga	1758
21	Bobby Hurley	1731
22	Randy Denton	1658
23	Ronnie Mayer	1647
24	Cherokee Parks	1643
25	Jeff Capel	1601
26	Daniel Ewing	1595
27	Thomas Hill	1594
28	Quinn Cook	1571
29	David Henderson	1570
30	Grayson Allen	1542
31	Carlos Boozer	1506

[grad_devil]

I've been trying to update this thread every 2 games - at least for now. It isn't getting a lot of interest at this point, but let's hope it does as the countdown to 2k gets closer.

Grayson scored 14 against Florida and 21 against Indiana, bringing his career total to 1577, and his 17-18 ppg to an even 17.0.

Along the way, he passed both David Henderson and Quinn Cook on the all-time scoring list, taking him to #28. Next on the list? Weeping Thomas Hill, only 17 points away at 1594.

Barring injury, Grayson will almost certainly make the top 20 in Duke history, needing only 7.5 ppg to pass Bob Verga, given the minimum number of contests remaining. Making the top 10 is doable, at his current clip of 17.0 ppg, but Duke needs several postseason games, or Allen needs to up his average a bit. At this point, I'd say the top 5 is out of the discussion, as he needs to average 24ppg from here on out, and Duke needs the max (31) number of games possible.

Points as of 11/30/2017	1577
PPG as of 11/30/2017	17.0
	Min	Max
Games Remaining	24	31
Avg to top 20	7.54	5.84
Avg to 2k	17.63	13.65
Avg to top 10	20.83	16.13
Avg to top 5	31.08	24.06
Avg to JJ	49.67	38.45

Duke Career Scoring Leaders

	Name	Pts
1	JJ Redick	2769
2	Johnny Dawkins	2556
3	Christian Laettner	2460
4	Kyle Singler	2392
5	Mike Gminski	2323
6	Danny Ferry	2155
7	Mark Alarie	2136
8	Gene Banks	2079
8	Jason Williams	2079
10	Jon Scheyer	2077
11	Jim Spanarkel	2012
12	Art Heyman	1984
12	Shane Battier	1984
14	Shelden Willaims	1928
15	Trajan Langdon	1974
16	Grant Hill	1924
17	Nolan Smith	1911
18	Dick Groat	1886
19	Jeff Mullins	1884
20	Bob Verga	1758
21	Bobby Hurley	1731
22	Randy Denton	1658
23	Ronnie Mayer	1647
24	Cherokee Parks	1643
25	Jeff Capel	1601
26	Daniel Ewing	1595
27	Thomas Hill	1594
28	Grayson Allen	1577
29	Quinn Cook	1571
30	David Henderson	1570
31	Carlos Boozer	1506

[CrazyNotCrazie]

I've been trying to update this thread every 2 games - at least for now. It isn't getting a lot of interest at this point, but let's hope it does as the countdown to 2k gets closer.

Grayson scored 14 against Florida and 21 against Indiana, bringing his career total to 1577, and his 17-18 ppg to an even 17.0.

Along the way, he passed both David Henderson and Quinn Cook on the all-time scoring list, taking him to #28. Next on the list? Weeping Thomas Hill, only 17 points away at 1594.

Barring injury, Grayson will almost certainly make the top 20 in Duke history, needing only 7.5 ppg to pass Bob Verga, given the minimum number of contests remaining. Making the top 10 is doable, at his current clip of 17.0 ppg, but Duke needs several postseason games, or Allen needs to up his average a bit. At this point, I'd say the top 5 is out of the discussion, as he needs to average 24ppg from here on out, and Duke needs the max (31) number of games possible.

Points as of 11/30/2017	1577
PPG as of 11/30/2017	17.0
	Min	Max
Games Remaining	24	31
Avg to top 20	7.54	5.84
Avg to 2k	17.63	13.65
Avg to top 10	20.83	16.13
Avg to top 5	31.08	24.06
Avg to JJ	49.67	38.45

Duke Career Scoring Leaders

	Name	Pts
1	JJ Redick	2769
2	Johnny Dawkins	2556
3	Christian Laettner	2460
4	Kyle Singler	2392
5	Mike Gminski	2323
6	Danny Ferry	2155
7	Mark Alarie	2136
8	Gene Banks	2079
8	Jason Williams	2079
10	Jon Scheyer	2077
11	Jim Spanarkel	2012
12	Art Heyman	1984
12	Shane Battier	1984
14	Shelden Willaims	1928
15	Trajan Langdon	1974
16	Grant Hill	1924
17	Nolan Smith	1911
18	Dick Groat	1886
19	Jeff Mullins	1884
20	Bob Verga	1758
21	Bobby Hurley	1731
22	Randy Denton	1658
23	Ronnie Mayer	1647
24	Cherokee Parks	1643
25	Jeff Capel	1601
26	Daniel Ewing	1595
27	Thomas Hill	1594
28	Grayson Allen	1577
29	Quinn Cook	1571
30	David Henderson	1570
31	Carlos Boozer	1506

Thanks for the updates - I can't spork you but they are greatly appreciated. It looks like Grayson will hopefully pass Coach Capel and make his way into the top 25 in the next week. A while ago someone posted that he was just outside the top 10 for three pointers made - periodic updates on that as well would be great!

One quick question - I think you have Shelden's total or place on the list wrong as he seems to be out of order?

[BandAlum83]

There is absolute interest in this thread from me, just not much to comment on as we watch him climb the board.

Keep up the good work, it is appreciated!

[atoomer0881]

There is absolute interest in this thread from me, just not much to comment on as we watch him climb the board.

Keep up the good work, it is appreciated!

I second this!!! Super interest from me on this thread. I like coming back every game or so to see where he stands. I'd love for him to make it to the top 10. And the nice thing about that is if he does, there's only 2 points that would separate him from being #10 and #8 on the all time scoring list. Really hoping he can make it to #8. LET'S GO DUKE!!!

Also just wanted to add how disgusting those chants were last night at Indiana. Those fans should be ashamed of themselves.

[BandAlum83]

I second this!!! Super interest from me on this thread. I like coming back every game or so to see where he stands. I'd love for him to make it to the top 10. And the nice thing about that is if he does, there's only 2 points that would separate him from being #10 and #8 on the all time scoring list. Really hoping he can make it to #8. LET'S GO DUKE!!!

Also just wanted to add how disgusting those chants were last night at Indiana. Those fans should be ashamed of themselves.

I didn't hear, or couldn't distinguish what they were saying. Care to share?

[JNort]

There is absolute interest in this thread from me, just not much to comment on as we watch him climb the board.

Keep up the good work, it is appreciated!

Same.