2017 NBA Summer Thread

[kAzE]

There is one otber glaring difference: the Wolves have Towns. The Bulls have nothing remotely comparable to him. I would argue that the Bulls' supporting cast this year was comparable to the Wolves... except for Towns. Put Towns on last year's Bulls team and they win 50+ games. Now put Butler with Thibs and a year-older Towns and Wiggins, and I think that is a 45-win team. Even in the West.

So, the one thing that I could see happening for them to get 50 wins is Wiggins and Towns making leaps. They obviously have immense potential, but I'm basically betting that they don't get there in 2018 just yet. Towns is particularly awful on defense. He had an abysmal 117.3 defensive rating in the 4th quarter of games. He'll get there eventually, but probably when he's like 24 or 25, not this year. You gotta at least not be terrible before you can be good.

And sorry, but there is absolutely no way the Jazz without Hayward are better than the Wolves with Butler. Hood, Hill, and Gobert are nice complementary players. But not difference makers as first options.

Yeah, the Jazz need a star offensive guy for sure, but they have a TON of B to B+ players. Gobert is an A, he's going to be their star next year. Hood, Favors, Hill, Ingles, Johnson, Mack, and Diaw are all competent. Johnson seems to still be capable of running an offense at times. Maybe even Exum finally gets healthy and becomes something. They also got Donovan Mitchell and Tony Bradley in the draft, both of whom are pretty solid defensively. Mitchell projects to be a VERY good perimeter defender with some scoring upside. That's a lot of really solid guys, and I wouldn't be surprised if they make a move to upgrade the roster.

The Wolves do have the 2 best players between the teams, but their depth is pretty questionable. Not sure what happens in free agency just yet (who knows, Hayward might stay), but I'd feel fairly confident saying Utah will have a better record. Depth matters in the regular season.

[CDu]

So, the one thing that I could see happening for them to get 50 wins is Wiggins and Towns making leaps. They obviously have immense potential, but I'm basically betting that they don't get there in 2018 just yet. Towns is particularly awful on defense. He had an abysmal 117.3 defensive rating in the 4th quarter of games. He'll get there eventually, but probably when he's like 24 or 25, not this year. You gotta at least not be terrible before you can be good.



Yeah, the Jazz need a star offensive guy for sure, but they have a TON of B to B+ players. Gobert is an A, he's going to be their star next year. Hood, Favors, Hill, Ingles, Johnson, Mack, and Diaw are all competent. Johnson seems to still be capable of running an offense at times. Maybe even Exum finally gets healthy and becomes something. They also got Donovan Mitchell and Tony Bradley in the draft, both of whom are pretty solid defensively. Mitchell projects to be a VERY good perimeter defender with some scoring upside. That's a lot of really solid guys, and I wouldn't be surprised if they make a move to upgrade the roster.

The Wolves do have the 2 best players between the teams, but their depth is pretty questionable. Not sure what happens in free agency just yet (who knows, Hayward might stay), but I'd feel fairly confident saying Utah will have a better record. Depth matters in the regular season.

We will see.

[NSDukeFan]

So, the one thing that I could see happening for them to get 50 wins is Wiggins and Towns making leaps. They obviously have immense potential, but I'm basically betting that they don't get there in 2018 just yet. Towns is particularly awful on defense. He had an abysmal 117.3 defensive rating in the 4th quarter of games. He'll get there eventually, but probably when he's like 24 or 25, not this year. You gotta at least not be terrible before you can be good.



Yeah, the Jazz need a star offensive guy for sure, but they have a TON of B to B+ players. Gobert is an A, he's going to be their star next year. Hood, Favors, Hill, Ingles, Johnson, Mack, and Diaw are all competent. Johnson seems to still be capable of running an offense at times. Maybe even Exum finally gets healthy and becomes something. They also got Donovan Mitchell and Tony Bradley in the draft, both of whom are pretty solid defensively. Mitchell projects to be a VERY good perimeter defender with some scoring upside. That's a lot of really solid guys, and I wouldn't be surprised if they make a move to upgrade the roster.

The Wolves do have the 2 best players between the teams, but their depth is pretty questionable. Not sure what happens in free agency just yet (who knows, Hayward might stay), but I'd feel fairly confident saying Utah will have a better record. Depth matters in the regular season.

Without Hayward, I think I would rather have Denver's roster - Jokic, Plumlee, Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Trey Lyles, Tyler Lydon, Gary Harris, Jamaal Murray, Mudiay, Jameer Nelson, Will Barton.

[duke74]

JJ rumors to the Nets today in the NY Post. Owns a penthouse in DUMBO (hot area in Bklyn for the non-NYers)


http://nypost.com/2017/06/26/nets-dr...pasteboard_app

[kshepinthehouse]

I'm stupefied.

Houston wants to get rid of Patrick Beverley...

Wow...

There must be something I am missing. Beverley is the ultimate 3-and-D player. He was 1st Team All-NBA Defensive Team this year... HE IS ONE OF THE 5 BEST DEFENDERS IN BASKETBALL!! He hits 3s at a very nice 37.5% rate over his career. He's 28 so he is in the middle of his prime. Of course, in today's NBA is seems everything is about cap space and contracts. Goodness knows there are a lot of wretched contracts around the league. So, what does his contract look like?

Beverly is due to make $5.5 mil in 2017-18. After that, there is a team option year at $5.0 million (yes, his contract actually goes down in the team option year?!?!?!). To call that a bargain is a massive understatement. I think there are folks who compute the value of players in the NBA and I bet Beverley is worth over $10 mil a season.

But Houston wants to deal him so they can clear another $5 mil in contract space. To be clear, this extra $5 mil won't get them to the max, where they could make a run at Gordon Hayward or Chris Paul or Blake Griffin or Paul Milsaps... it would probably just allow them to overspend on some other good, but not great free agent.

If I were the Minnesota GM, I would run to Houston to make a deal for Beverley. Add him to the TWolves and I think they instantly become a contender for a top 4 seed in the West.

-Jason "I just do not understand the NBA sometimes" Evans

If JR smith is worth 14 million surely Beverly is worth at least half that lol.

[elvis14]

JJ rumors to the Nets today in the NY Post. Owns a penthouse in DUMBO (hot area in Bklyn for the non-NYers)


http://nypost.com/2017/06/26/nets-dr...pasteboard_app

I really hope that doesn't happen. Unless they over pay him, I seems odd to me that JJ would sign with the hapless Nets. He's the type of guy that could be the last piece to a playoff puzzle.

[CDu]

I really hope that doesn't happen. Unless they over pay him, I seems odd to me that JJ would sign with the hapless Nets. He's the type of guy that could be the last piece to a playoff puzzle.

The problem is that he would have to take a substantial paycut to go to a contender. This is probably his last chance to sign a big contract. But contenders don't have cap space, and are not likely to overpay for a role player (which is what he would be on a contender).

[Newton_14]

I'm stupefied.

Houston wants to get rid of Patrick Beverley...

Wow...

There must be something I am missing. Beverley is the ultimate 3-and-D player. He was 1st Team All-NBA Defensive Team this year... HE IS ONE OF THE 5 BEST DEFENDERS IN BASKETBALL!! He hits 3s at a very nice 37.5% rate over his career. He's 28 so he is in the middle of his prime. Of course, in today's NBA is seems everything is about cap space and contracts. Goodness knows there are a lot of wretched contracts around the league. So, what does his contract look like?

Beverly is due to make $5.5 mil in 2017-18. After that, there is a team option year at $5.0 million (yes, his contract actually goes down in the team option year?!?!?!). To call that a bargain is a massive understatement. I think there are folks who compute the value of players in the NBA and I bet Beverley is worth over $10 mil a season.

But Houston wants to deal him so they can clear another $5 mil in contract space. To be clear, this extra $5 mil won't get them to the max, where they could make a run at Gordon Hayward or Chris Paul or Blake Griffin or Paul Milsaps... it would probably just allow them to overspend on some other good, but not great free agent.

If I were the Minnesota GM, I would run to Houston to make a deal for Beverley. Add him to the TWolves and I think they instantly become a contender for a top 4 seed in the West.

-Jason "I just do not understand the NBA sometimes" Evans

Haven't you heard? The right thing for the teams with winning records, but not good enough to win titles to do is trade their best player for little to nothing in return, or get rid of one of their other top players for little to nothing. It's a really great strategy too. Everyone is doing it now. It's all the rage J-Dawg!

[elvis14]

The problem is that he would have to take a substantial paycut to go to a contender. This is probably his last chance to sign a big contract. But contenders don't have cap space, and are not likely to overpay for a role player (which is what he would be on a contender).

I was afraid that was the case. If he can get one more big contract, a move to a contender will have to wait a couple of years.

[JasonEvans]

I was afraid that was the case. If he can get one more big contract, a move to a contender will have to wait a couple of years.

It is easy to forget that JJ has never had a mega-payday in the NBA. Sure, he has made about $7 mil a year for the past several years, but he has never been in even the $10-15 mil kind of range where most starters on contenders tend to be.

His career earnings are $56 mil. I would not blame him for taking a big payday at this point... though it does probably mean he will never play in a conference finals. If he is content making $5 mil, then he can probably find a home on a contender. One team really interested in him is the 76ers, and they may have a fairly bright future in a couple seasons when the youngsters mature. That could be his best option. They could use a shooter around Simmons.

-Jason "I would love to see JJ on the Cavs... but no way to make that happen, I suspect" Evans

[cato]

I would not blame him for taking a big payday at this point... though it does probably mean he will never play in a conference finals.

Didn't he play in the conference finals with Orlando? Or do you mean "play" as in "play a meaningful role," since that was before he fought his way into real minutes.

[luburch]

He played in the finals with the Magic.

JJ is in a bit of a tough spot. He's talked on his podcast about this being has last big contract. Not a lot of contenders can give him big money. I've seen rumors of the Wolves and 76ers...neither fits his timeline for winning a ring.

[Troublemaker]

Didn't he play in the conference finals with Orlando? Or do you mean "play" as in "play a meaningful role," since that was before he fought his way into real minutes.

JJ was in the rotation for 4 of the 5 Finals games against the Lakers (albeit as an 8th or 9th man), and he played a lot during the series in which Orlando eliminated the defending champs Boston (who were without Garnett). He usually did a great job guarding Ray Allen. 2008-9 Game Logs for JJ. I'd say those minutes were meaningful enough.

It is easy to forget that JJ has never had a mega-payday in the NBA. Sure, he has made about $7 mil a year for the past several years, but he has never been in even the $10-15 mil kind of range where most starters on contenders tend to be.

His career earnings are $56 mil. I would not blame him for taking a big payday at this point...

JJ is in a bit of a tough spot. He's talked on his podcast about this being has last big contract. Not a lot of contenders can give him big money. I've seen rumors of the Wolves and 76ers...neither fits his timeline for winning a ring.

To me the choice is easy not tough. If the 76ers offer him something like 3 years - 45 million, he should take that considering, as Jason mentioned, his career earnings are "only" $56M. For a franchise to trust in JJ to mentor and provide spacing for their young studs is a great responsibility and an honor. AND they'll pay you $45 million to do it? That's the place to go.

What's the alternative? Beg the Warriors to put you on their roster at the vet minimum so you can ring-chase even though they're not going to play you during the playoffs because their system prefers switchable athletes. That's more fulfilling?

Or beg the Cavs to take you in at the mid-level exception to play Kyle Korver's role without knowing whether Lebron will leave after one season?

[CDu]

JJ was in the rotation for 4 of the 5 Finals games against the Lakers (albeit as an 8th or 9th man), and he played a lot during the series in which Orlando eliminated the defending champs Boston (who were without Garnett). He usually did a great job guarding Ray Allen. 2008-9 Game Logs for JJ. I'd say those minutes were meaningful enough.






To me the choice is easy not tough. If the 76ers offer him something like 3 years - 45 million, he should take that considering, as Jason mentioned, his career earnings are "only" $56M. For a franchise to trust in JJ to mentor and provide spacing for their young studs is a great responsibility and an honor. AND they'll pay you $45 million to do it? That's the place to go.

What's the alternative? Beg the Warriors to put you on their roster at the vet minimum so you can ring-chase even though they're not going to play you during the playoffs because their system prefers switchable athletes. That's more fulfilling?

Or beg the Cavs to take you in at the mid-level exception to play Kyle Korver's role without knowing whether Lebron will leave after one season?

Yeah, the 76ers and TWolves make sense as teams that will be semi-competitive/competitive now but could develop into a contender in the next few years and can offer him decent money.

[JasonEvans]

Yeah, the 76ers and TWolves make sense as teams that will be semi-competitive/competitive now but could develop into a contender in the next few years and can offer him decent money.

There are other teams that could develop nicely too, but none of them have an immediate need for an outside shooter the way the TWolves and 76ers do. Of course, the TWolves only available spot in the lineup is at PG, because they just brought in one of the top few SGs in all of basketball in Butler. But, NBA teams have been getting pretty creative with positions -- they could maybe decide to move Butler to PG if they wanted to go after JJ's elite outside shooting.

Miami could be another possibility if they lose Dion Waiters to free agency. He was an excellent SG for them last season and will probably command $15 mil or so per season in the free agent market. But, he sounds like he wants to stay there and I am betting they would rather have him for $15 mil a season than JJ for the same price.

Milwaukee (Kris Middleton) and Denver (Gary Harris), both of whom seem to have promising futures, are set at SG.

Here is another possibility -- Memphis. They had Tony Allen and Vince Carter at SG last season, both of whom qualify for an AARP discount. They are both free agents so maybe the Grizz are looking for some SG help. Of course, while the Grizz are a playoff team in the West, it is sorta hard to see how that take the leap to be a contender.

-Jason "The more I think about it, the more I think the 76ers are the best fit in terms of moolah and maybe playing for a team on the rise" Evans

[CDu]

There are other teams that could develop nicely too, but none of them have an immediate need for an outside shooter the way the TWolves and 76ers do. Of course, the TWolves only available spot in the lineup is at PG, because they just brought in one of the top few SGs in all of basketball in Butler. But, NBA teams have been getting pretty creative with positions -- they could maybe decide to move Butler to PG if they wanted to go after JJ's elite outside shooting.

Miami could be another possibility if they lose Dion Waiters to free agency. He was an excellent SG for them last season and will probably command $15 mil or so per season in the free agent market. But, he sounds like he wants to stay there and I am betting they would rather have him for $15 mil a season than JJ for the same price.

Milwaukee (Kris Middleton) and Denver (Gary Harris), both of whom seem to have promising futures, are set at SG.

Here is another possibility -- Memphis. They had Tony Allen and Vince Carter at SG last season, both of whom qualify for an AARP discount. They are both free agents so maybe the Grizz are looking for some SG help. Of course, while the Grizz are a playoff team in the West, it is sorta hard to see how that take the leap to be a contender.

-Jason "The more I think about it, the more I think the 76ers are the best fit in terms of moolah and maybe playing for a team on the rise" Evans

Yeah, the Grizz don't look appealing to me at all. They are old, with all of their key players on the back end of their careers. They are also glacial, which doesn't help in the "space and pace" era. They were barely a playoff team the last two years, and I don't see them getting better. I could see them missing the playoffs this year. And they don't have cap space as Gasol, Randolph, Parsons, and Conley all have big contracts.

Philly and Minnesota are MUCH better situations to go to. Philly has the obvious need of course. But Minnesota does too, and can certainly accommodate Redick with Butler playing PG and defending wherever. And Redick would play his more natural spot whenever Wiggins or Butler is sitting (the other of whom would play SF), which should be 20-25 mpg anyway. So it's not like Redick would be stuck as a de facto PG very much anyway.

[superdave]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...ws-buzz-rumors

Interesting stuff in this NBA thread on Espn -

Melo is seeking a buyout with the Knicks who may try to re-sign Derrick Rose. What a franchise!

Igoudala will have no shortage of offers, which could be trouble for GSW.


http://nypost.com/2017/06/27/one-of-...e-recruitment/

John Wall is recruiting Paul George which may not help with Otto Porter. But a Wall, Beal, Porter, George, Gortat lineup would be awesome, right?

[wsb3]

It is easy to forget that JJ has never had a mega-payday in the NBA. Sure, he has made about $7 mil a year for the past several years, but he has never been in even the $10-15 mil kind of range...

JJ is my top choice of any player I would love to see get a ring but this is a great post Jason. JJ has limited time & appears to be in position for his biggest contract ever. Can't fault him one bit.

I kind of hope it is the Sixers. They have accumulated some great young talent. His work ethic hopefully would rub off..

I really admire how hard JJ has worked to have a good long NBA career.

[duke74]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/1...ws-buzz-rumors

Interesting stuff in this NBA thread on Espn -

Melo is seeking a buyout with the Knicks who may try to re-sign Derrick Rose. What a franchise!

Igoudala will have no shortage of offers, which could be trouble for GSW.


http://nypost.com/2017/06/27/one-of-...e-recruitment/

John Wall is recruiting Paul George which may not help with Otto Porter. But a Wall, Beal, Porter, George, Gortat lineup would be awesome, right?

Don't think it's happening. While MElo holds the no-trade clause trump card, Knicks want to at least try to get something back. Or can do the stretch provision for the cap space "asset."

I am more concerned with the Porzingis situation. He acted like a big baby by not meeting with Phil, and per the Knicks has not responded to calls or texts. Anyone in business pulling that crap would be looking for another job. Granted the Knicks are in chaos, but that's not the way to be professional.

After I posted the article on JJ and the Nets on FB, a client of mine (CFO) commented that perhaps I should switch to the Nets. (He's a big Nets fan) I said only if they put Dr. J back into the line-up.

[cato]

I am more concerned with the Porzingis situation. He acted like a big baby by not meeting with Phil, and per the Knicks has not responded to calls or texts. Anyone in business pulling that crap would be looking for another job. Granted the Knicks are in chaos, but that's not the way to be professional.

Huh? Porzingis is in business. And he would have no problem finding a better job if his employer fired him.