2017 NBA Summer Thread

[Indoor66]

If you have to ask, he probably isn't important enough to have a nickname.

You got that right. I never heard of him under his actual name!

[Newton_14]

said the stock salesman on October 22, 1929. Although I would certainly bend over to pick up 2 million if I saw it on the ground, this discussion got me wondering--could you really live off making 2 million over 2 years and how long. Assuming you had to pay your agents and so on 10% and taxes on the rest you would have about 1 million after taxes. If you were fairly frugal but made some reasonable indulgences and spend 150K paying off mom's mortgage and 50K to buy a nice car and 100K to live for the 2 years then you could save 700K. If you invested that in a index fund mutual fund with low expense charges and the stock market always went up and civilization didn't collapse and assuming inflation continues to behave as it has in the past you could probably take around 30K out of the fund every year and have it last "in perpetuity". So nice to have, but you would probably want to find some other income stream as well.

Hey don't forget the Lord's money. Tithe is the first 10% of the gross number.

Carry on...

[Furniture]

why are y'all automatically putting Frank ahead of Quinn? he's one year removed from high school and QC has been excelling in the d-league for a good while now.


I think frank has talent, but, let's see what he does in the big-boy atmosphere before we start putting him over someone like quinn..
jmho

Apparently good news for Quinn?

Alvin Gentry says on the @DuncandHolder podcast that he plans to start Jrue Holiday as the #Pelicans' starting SG, alongside Rondo at PG.11:33 AM · Jul 18, 2017

[JasonEvans]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the moment! This is what the smartest GM in basketball has been waiting for.

I am sure you all know that I'm talking about Danny Ainge. And I'm sure you're thinking right now about whether dealing Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas and some pics or other assets would make sense. But, my friends, you're not thinking the way Ainge does.

The guy that Ainge wants to trade for is LeBron James. He only has one year left on his deal and everyone is assuming he is ready to leave Cleveland. If Cleveland wants to have any kind of future, it is not from dealing Irving and then watching LeBron walk, it is by dealing LeBron for tons of good, young assets.

I'm on my phone so I can't check the NBA trade machine, but I'm certain there are plenty of potential deals that would work here. Maybe you send Crowder and a couple of the great young players and a pic. Maybe you send Horford and a couple pics. There are ways to get it done.

Jason "bottom line, this is what Ainge has been stockpiling assets for" Evans

[CDu]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the moment! This is what the smartest GM in basketball has been waiting for.

I am sure you all know that I'm talking about Danny Ainge. And I'm sure you're thinking right now about whether dealing Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas and some pics or other assets would make sense. But, my friends, you're not thinking the way Ainge does.

The guy that Ainge wants to trade for is LeBron James. He only has one year left on his deal and everyone is assuming he is ready to leave Cleveland. If Cleveland wants to have any kind of future, it is not from dealing Irving and then watching LeBron walk, it is by dealing LeBron for tons of good, young assets.

I'm on my phone so I can't check the NBA trade machine, but I'm certain there are plenty of potential deals that would work here. Maybe you send Crowder and a couple of the great young players and a pic. Maybe you send Horford and a couple pics. There are ways to get it done.

Jason "bottom line, this is what Ainge has been stockpiling assets for" Evans

One small problem: LeBron has a no-trade clause in his contract. And I don't think Boston is good enough to entice LeBron to drop it. Especially after the assets the Celts would have to give up to get LeBron.

[JasonEvans]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the moment! This is what the smartest GM in basketball has been waiting for.

I am sure you all know that I'm talking about Danny Ainge. And I'm sure you're thinking right now about whether dealing Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas and some pics or other assets would make sense. But, my friends, you're not thinking the way Ainge does.

The guy that Ainge wants to trade for is LeBron James. He only has one year left on his deal and everyone is assuming he is ready to leave Cleveland. If Cleveland wants to have any kind of future, it is not from dealing Irving and then watching LeBron walk, it is by dealing LeBron for tons of good, young assets.

I'm on my phone so I can't check the NBA trade machine, but I'm certain there are plenty of potential deals that would work here. Maybe you send Crowder and a couple of the great young players and a pic. Maybe you send Horford and a couple pics. There are ways to get it done.

Jason "bottom line, this is what Ainge has been stockpiling assets for" Evans

Horford has to be part of the deal. Lebron makes too much ($33 mil) to make a deal work that does not include at least one big contract. You could do Horford plus 2 really good picks or Horford plus Jaylen Brown and 1 or 2 of the valuable picks. Imagine a lineup of IT, Heyward, Tatum, Lebron, and the Morris twin with Crowder, Smart, and others coming off the bench. That team could challenge the Warriors.

-Jason "and when you have a team that can challenge the Warriors, I'm sure Lebron would agree to stay longer term... especially seeing how Tatum and other young assets can help carry him as he gets older" Evans

[CDu]

Horford has to be part of the deal. Lebron makes too much ($33 mil) to make a deal work that does not include at least one big contract. You could do Horford plus 2 really good picks or Horford plus Jaylen Brown and 1 or 2 of the valuable picks. Imagine a lineup of IT, Heyward, Tatum, Lebron, and the Morris twin with Crowder, Smart, and others coming off the bench. That team could challenge the Warriors.

-Jason "and when you have a team that can challenge the Warriors, I'm sure Lebron would agree to stay longer term... especially seeing how Tatum and other young assets can help carry him as he gets older" Evans

Yeah, no. That team would not challenge Golden State. No rebounding/interior defensive presence, not enough defenders, and an AWFUL bench. And again, you have to convince LeBron to waive his no-trade clause.

[lotusland]

Boston could send Crowder to UNC. The Heels need someone to manage their farcical student athlete eligibility curriculum.

[MrPoon]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the moment! This is what the smartest GM in basketball has been waiting for.

I am sure you all know that I'm talking about Danny Ainge. And I'm sure you're thinking right now about whether dealing Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas and some pics or other assets would make sense. But, my friends, you're not thinking the way Ainge does.

The guy that Ainge wants to trade for is LeBron James. He only has one year left on his deal and everyone is assuming he is ready to leave Cleveland. If Cleveland wants to have any kind of future, it is not from dealing Irving and then watching LeBron walk, it is by dealing LeBron for tons of good, young assets.

I'm on my phone so I can't check the NBA trade machine, but I'm certain there are plenty of potential deals that would work here. Maybe you send Crowder and a couple of the great young players and a pic. Maybe you send Horford and a couple pics. There are ways to get it done.

Jason "bottom line, this is what Ainge has been stockpiling assets for" Evans

That is all well and good but LBJ has a no trade clause. His team set this up with precision. They do not trust Gilbert (nor should they). They control all the cards. The only miscalculation by team LBJ is what just happened today. LBJ was supposed to drive the train and when he leaves its on his terms. Now, maybe not.

[Dukehky]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the moment! This is what the smartest GM in basketball has been waiting for.

I am sure you all know that I'm talking about Danny Ainge. And I'm sure you're thinking right now about whether dealing Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas and some pics or other assets would make sense. But, my friends, you're not thinking the way Ainge does.

The guy that Ainge wants to trade for is LeBron James. He only has one year left on his deal and everyone is assuming he is ready to leave Cleveland. If Cleveland wants to have any kind of future, it is not from dealing Irving and then watching LeBron walk, it is by dealing LeBron for tons of good, young assets.

I'm on my phone so I can't check the NBA trade machine, but I'm certain there are plenty of potential deals that would work here. Maybe you send Crowder and a couple of the great young players and a pic. Maybe you send Horford and a couple pics. There are ways to get it done.

Jason "bottom line, this is what Ainge has been stockpiling assets for" Evans

This has come up before but mostly in discussions of teams that LeBron may go to in free agency. No one in the Cavs market or national basketball talking heads thinks he would go to Boston. He hates Boston. I agree that if he went there in Free Agency, MAYBE that team is good enough to beat the dubs as constituted and he gets to stay in the East. However, I don't think he would want to go there, and I am very sure that he wouldn't waive his no trade clause to get there either.

[JBDuke]

I've moved the posts about Kyrie Irving's trade demands to their own thread. Yes, they are somewhat intertwined with discussions here about Lebron James's future, but they were also going to drown out any other discussions regarding anything else across the NBA. Plus, as a Duke alum, the discussion merits its own thread rather than just being part of an omnibus NBA offseason one.

You can find the Kyrie thread here:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.c...-Demands-Trade

[nmduke2001]

Ladies and gentlemen, we have reached the moment! This is what the smartest GM in basketball has been waiting for.

I am sure you all know that I'm talking about Danny Ainge. And I'm sure you're thinking right now about whether dealing Kyrie Irving for Isaiah Thomas and some pics or other assets would make sense. But, my friends, you're not thinking the way Ainge does.

The guy that Ainge wants to trade for is LeBron James. He only has one year left on his deal and everyone is assuming he is ready to leave Cleveland. If Cleveland wants to have any kind of future, it is not from dealing Irving and then watching LeBron walk, it is by dealing LeBron for tons of good, young assets.

I'm on my phone so I can't check the NBA trade machine, but I'm certain there are plenty of potential deals that would work here. Maybe you send Crowder and a couple of the great young players and a pic. Maybe you send Horford and a couple pics. There are ways to get it done.

Jason "bottom line, this is what Ainge has been stockpiling assets for" Evans

Jason, I've been saying this for some time. LeBron is gone soon. If Cleveland wants to avoid the cellar in a few years they need to convince LBJ to agree to a trade and get some value for him. Heck, predraft, I would of tried for Porzigis, Noah and 2020 and 2021 first rounders from NYC. Or horford and a few first rounders from Boston.

[CDu]

Jason, I've been saying this for some time. LeBron is gone soon. If Cleveland wants to avoid the cellar in a few years they need to convince LBJ to agree to a trade and get some value for him. Heck, predraft, I would of tried for Porzigis, Noah and 2020 and 2021 first rounders from NYC. Or horford and a few first rounders from Boston.

LeBron isn't waiving his no-trade clause for either of those deals.

[JasonEvans]

LeBron isn't waiving his no-trade clause for either of those deals.

Yeah, but I think he would waive it to go to a Boston team that has other strong players and good young assets that can both help now as well as develop into potential all-stars as Lebron gets older and needs more and more help to get him more rings.

Ainge has got to do this. It is the ultimate coup and it works. Lebron takes Horford's place on that team and you throw in one young stud as well as one valuable pick. You've got something special in Boston if you do that.

-Jason "IT and Kyrie are pretty darn similar players in my mind. So, Lebron's situation is better if you think Heyward, Morris, Tatum (or Brown), Smart, and Crowder are better than Love, Thompson, JR Smith, and Korver... uhhhh, no brainer!!" Evans

[CDu]

Yeah, but I think he would waive it to go to a Boston team that has other strong players and good young assets that can both help now as well as develop into potential all-stars as Lebron gets older and needs more and more help to get him more rings.

Ainge has got to do this. It is the ultimate coup and it works. Lebron takes Horford's place on that team and you throw in one young stud as well as one valuable pick. You've got something special in Boston if you do that.

-Jason "IT and Kyrie are pretty darn similar players in my mind. So, Lebron's situation is better if you think Heyward, Morris, Tatum (or Brown), Smart, and Crowder are better than Love, Thompson, JR Smith, and Korver... uhhhh, no brainer!!" Evans

It doesn't get LeBron closer to a ring though. It would neuter their frontcourt and greatly cut into Boston's future assets. And while we love Tatum, LeBron isn't going to be psyched about putting his hopes in the hands of a rookie, or an unproven second-year guy (Brown), or a mediocre swing forward (Morris), or a guy who isn't very good, especially off the ball (Smart). Not to mention, two of Crowder/Heyward/Morris/Tatum/Brown wouldn't see the floor because they only have so many SG/SF/PF minutes to share.

I don't think LeBron would exercise his no-trade to ANY team. He knows he will win the East again this year snd can then choose his destination thereafter without causing that team to give away its assets to get him.

I am sure Ainge would love to make a deal for LeBron. But he would have to make it extra-sweet for Coeveland to trade him to a rival, and by making it extra-sweet it would make LeBron less interested in going.

[CDu]

I think the more realistic dream trade would be to go after Anthony Davis via trade. That guy makes sense with who the Celtics have, and unlike LeBron actually may have a chance of happening.

Davis also aligns better with the age of the team, and helps mitigate some of Thomas' defensive woes.

[CDu]

Per ESPN, LeBron will not waive his no-trade clause, regardless of the team. Obviously it remains to be seen, but I suspect this will be correct. I think he will play out this next season with Cleveland, see where teams are with their young talent, then go to his team of choice as a free agent without hurting said team's title chances.

[JasonEvans]

He knows he will win the East again this year snd can then choose his destination thereafter without causing that team to give away its assets to get him.

I'm making the prediction right now... Celtics win the East.

They lose Bradley (a significant loss) and Olynyk from last year. They add Heyward, Tatum, Morris, and the young guys like Brown and Smart get a year older. No one is so old that we have to worry about a significant decline in production with age.

Unless Cleveland pulls off some miracle deal for Kyrie or Love that makes them a lot better, I think the Celtics have done enough to bridge the gap between those teams. I also think the Celtics are constructed better to get themselves home court from regular season success. And I suspect the Cavs are going to be somewhat dysfunctional all season long.

-Jason "And I won't be at all surprised if Ainge makes a deal mid-season that adds the big man piece that will put the Celtics over the top" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm making the prediction right now... Celtics win the East.

They lose Bradley (a significant loss) and Olynyk from last year. They add Heyward, Tatum, Morris, and the young guys like Brown and Smart get a year older. No one is so old that we have to worry about a significant decline in production with age.

Unless Cleveland pulls off some miracle deal for Kyrie or Love that makes them a lot better, I think the Celtics have done enough to bridge the gap between those teams. I also think the Celtics are constructed better to get themselves home court from regular season success. And I suspect the Cavs are going to be somewhat dysfunctional all season long.

-Jason "And I won't be at all surprised if Ainge makes a deal mid-season that adds the big man piece that will put the Celtics over the top" Evans

Willing to wager on that? I'm a huuuuuuuuuge Celtics fan, and I agree with nearly everything in your post, especially about the Cavs being dysfunctional all season long (when are they not dysfunctional? Welcome to the World of Lebron!).

Wager:
Celts in Finals: JE wins
Cavs in Finals: FDD wins
Someone else in Finals: no one wins

Bet: 1 week of singing the other's praises.

Accept?

[CDu]

I'm making the prediction right now... Celtics win the East.

They lose Bradley (a significant loss) and Olynyk from last year. They add Heyward, Tatum, Morris, and the young guys like Brown and Smart get a year older. No one is so old that we have to worry about a significant decline in production with age.

Unless Cleveland pulls off some miracle deal for Kyrie or Love that makes them a lot better, I think the Celtics have done enough to bridge the gap between those teams. I also think the Celtics are constructed better to get themselves home court from regular season success. And I suspect the Cavs are going to be somewhat dysfunctional all season long.

-Jason "And I won't be at all surprised if Ainge makes a deal mid-season that adds the big man piece that will put the Celtics over the top" Evans

I don't think so. I'm not a betting man, but I think:
1. You are overrating the value of Marcus Morris. He's just a guy. And if either Tatum and Brown are as good as advertised, Morris doesn't play. If they aren't ready, Morris is a huge step down from Love at PF. Honestly, Cleveland added basically the same guy as Morris with Jeff Green.
2. I think you are overrating Smart, who is solid defensively but just abysmal offensively
3. I think you are undervaluing the loss of Bradley.
4. They weren't particularly close to the Cavs this year, regular season records aside.

The Cavs would still have arguably three of the four best players in that series (though Boston certainly closes the gap with the addition of Hayward). But more importantly, they don't have anyone remotely capable of managing LeBron, and they now don't have anyone capable of guarding Irving.

The Celtics may well have a better regular season record than Cleveland. But if Cleveland runs it back, I like them better.

If Cleveland trades Irving or Love, that certainly would change things. But I'll wait to see if that actually happens.

As for Ainge acquiring that key big, he's not managed to make a trade happen yet. Including this summer, which was the absolutely the right time to try to make a move as this was the year they had flexibility.

We'll see.