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  1. #1
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    2017 NBA Summer Thread

    Rather than continue to pollute the NBA Finals thread, let's move the conversation about post-season trades and free agents to a new home... here.

    Thanks
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    Looks like the Cavs are more interested in Jimmy Butler.

    http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=1-19682349
    Makes perfect sense to me as Butler would seem more likely to stay in Cleveland than George. Also, Butler is under contract for 2 years while George is only locked in for 1 more season. That said, because George has made it clear he wants out of Indy, I would think a trade would be easier to facilitate with the Pacers.

    All the talk is that Cleveland is trying to deal Love to someone who would send picks and younger players to Chicago. I wonder who the third team would be in these scenarios.

    -Jason "I know one thing, i ain't Boston " Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  3. #3
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    PG13-to-LAL picking up steam

    According to Ramona Shelburne and Marc Stein (both still with the Worldwide Leader), via "league sources," the Lakers & Pacers have engaged in talks for Paul George in advance of the draft.

    That protected Boston 2018 LAL draft pick appears likely to go up in smoke. It's likely on to the 2019 Sacto pick for them.
    Haters gonna hate.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by English View Post
    According to Ramona Shelburne and Marc Stein (both still with the Worldwide Leader), via "league sources," the Lakers & Pacers have engaged in talks for Paul George in advance of the draft.
    So, suddenly the Lakers are in "win now!" mode? Huh? If they wait a year, they have a decent chance to get PG13 for free (cap space).

    If you are Indiana, what do you want for PG13? Jordan Clarkson and D'Angelo Russell would work in terms of cap space. I can't imagine Indiana would do it, but you could do George for Deng and then throw in a ton of draft picks from the Lakers.

    -Jason "I wonder if the Lakers would consider dealing the pick that will become Ball? I think that would be a mistake. Elite PGs who make everyone around them better are hard to come by" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Makes perfect sense to me as Butler would seem more likely to stay in Cleveland than George. Also, Butler is under contract for 2 years while George is only locked in for 1 more season. That said, because George has made it clear he wants out of Indy, I would think a trade would be easier to facilitate with the Pacers.

    All the talk is that Cleveland is trying to deal Love to someone who would send picks and younger players to Chicago. I wonder who the third team would be in these scenarios.

    -Jason "I know one thing, i ain't Boston " Evans
    Butler to Cleveland makes sense from a feasibility and mutual interest standpoint, but he doesn't fit in as seamlessly on offense as George or even Kevin Love in my opinion. However, the George to Cleveland story seems to have died down, so Butler is probably the best they can do at this point.

    Defensively, Butler is obviously a massive, massive upgrade for them. The reason to do this deal is because of his defense. He can switch 1 through 3 and is tough as nails.
    Just adding Butler turns Cleveland into a top 10- defensive squad.

    That said, it will be an awkward fit on offense. Butler is another ball dominant perimeter scorer on a team with 2 extremely ball dominant stars, and he doesn't have the consistent shooting that you would want in a #3 scorer.

    I think we would all agree that Butler would be 3rd in the pecking order on the Cavs, and it's also widely accepted that the 3rd scorer always gets the short end of a stick on these super teams. That is, unless your 3rd scorer is a lights out shooter who knows how to move without the ball, like Ray Allen or Klay Thompson. Chris Bosh had to work hard on his perimeter shot before he finally settled in comfortably into his role as the #3 guy in that Heat offense.

    Butler is not a lights out shooter, and he doesn't have a ton of experience playing without the ball in his hands. However, he does by all accounts have a ridiculous work ethic, so if he does end up with the Cavs, I would bet on him improving that jumper.

    It's an interesting move, and I think it does make the Cavs more competitive with the Warriors. I still think George is the better fit from a basketball standpoint, with his ability to play some power forward, and his more accurate shooting, but I guess that ship has sailed.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by English View Post
    According to Ramona Shelburne and Marc Stein (both still with the Worldwide Leader), via "league sources," the Lakers & Pacers have engaged in talks for Paul George in advance of the draft.

    That protected Boston 2018 LAL draft pick appears likely to go up in smoke. It's likely on to the 2019 Sacto pick for them.
    PG to LA may actually make it more likely that Boston gets the 2018 LAL pick. As long as it's not 2-5, it goes to Boston. Given that LA has traded their 2018 first round pick, there's no reason for them not to trade for George now and begin integrating him with the rest of their core.

  7. #7
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    The problem with the love for butler trade is that it won't be enough. Too bad they couldn't nab butler AND keep love. That's gets them on the same level as the GSW super duper team, I think...

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DallasDevil View Post
    PG to LA may actually make it more likely that Boston gets the 2018 LAL pick. As long as it's not 2-5, it goes to Boston. Given that LA has traded their 2018 first round pick, there's no reason for them not to trade for George now and begin integrating him with the rest of their core.
    My guess is also that they would be worried about the Cavs acquiring him and the possibility of him resigning with Lebron and the Cavs after that. I would be scared that whoever he gets traded to he may fall in love with the team and decide to stick around.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    My guess is also that they would be worried about the Cavs acquiring him and the possibility of him resigning with Lebron and the Cavs after that. I would be scared that whoever he gets traded to he may fall in love with the team and decide to stick around.
    This is my suspicion--there is a nonzero likelihood that he ends up somewhere else, and by making a deal now, that likelihood is vaporized. In an era of superteams and players colluding in the offseason to play together, who knows what the landscape will look like in 18mo. Especially with the specter of Lebron leaving Cleveland, Melo ending up somewhere, CP3 leaving LAC (or staying with LAC), etc. This assumes that Magic is risk averse, but that's not a great leap of faith, pending the Pacers' asking price.
    Haters gonna hate.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DallasDevil View Post
    PG to LA may actually make it more likely that Boston gets the 2018 LAL pick. As long as it's not 2-5, it goes to Boston. Given that LA has traded their 2018 first round pick, there's no reason for them not to trade for George now and begin integrating him with the rest of their core.
    That's backwards. As long as it IS 2-5, it goes to Boston. Otherwise, Boston receives the 2019 Kings pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    The problem with the love for butler trade is that it won't be enough. Too bad they couldn't nab butler AND keep love. That's gets them on the same level as the GSW super duper team, I think...
    Well, yeah. Usually you can't tack a 4th star onto your Big 3. The circumstances that allowed GSW to do it -- Curry-ankle-contract, cap spike -- do not exist for Cleveland.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    Butler to Cleveland makes sense from a feasibility and mutual interest standpoint, but he doesn't fit in as seamlessly on offense as George or even Kevin Love in my opinion. However, the George to Cleveland story seems to have died down, so Butler is probably the best they can do at this point.

    Defensively, Butler is obviously a massive, massive upgrade for them. The reason to do this deal is because of his defense. He can switch 1 through 3 and is tough as nails.
    Just adding Butler turns Cleveland into a top 10- defensive squad.

    That said, it will be an awkward fit on offense. Butler is another ball dominant perimeter scorer on a team with 2 extremely ball dominant stars, and he doesn't have the consistent shooting that you would want in a #3 scorer.

    I think we would all agree that Butler would be 3rd in the pecking order on the Cavs, and it's also widely accepted that the 3rd scorer always gets the short end of a stick on these super teams. That is, unless your 3rd scorer is a lights out shooter who knows how to move without the ball, like Ray Allen or Klay Thompson. Chris Bosh had to work hard on his perimeter shot before he finally settled in comfortably into his role as the #3 guy in that Heat offense.

    Butler is not a lights out shooter, and he doesn't have a ton of experience playing without the ball in his hands. However, he does by all accounts have a ridiculous work ethic, so if he does end up with the Cavs, I would bet on him improving that jumper.

    It's an interesting move, and I think it does make the Cavs more competitive with the Warriors. I still think George is the better fit from a basketball standpoint, with his ability to play some power forward, and his more accurate shooting, but I guess that ship has sailed.
    A few things here:
    1. I totally agree that Butler is less of a fit offensively on the floor with Irving and James than either Love or George. He's at his best with the ball in his hands, and is more of a scorer than a shooter. That said, he's also very good without the ball (especially on back-door alley-oops), and having facilitators like James is a nice plus. He's also a perfect guy to fill in the "LeBron" role when LeBron sits. No, he's not nearly as good as LeBron, but he can play the same position at an All-NBA level while LeBron sits, rather than having replacement-level play there.
    2. He does in fact have a ton of experience without the ball in his hands, as the first several years of his career (with Rose at PG and then with Noah as "point center") he was an off-ball player. It's only in the last couple of years that he's expanded his role to be a ball-dominant player.
    3. Defensively, he's a HUGE get for whoever gets him. You say "1 to 3" here, but he is more than capable of guarding PFs too, and he's not overwhelmed by most centers. He's 6'7", 220lb, and basically defensively similar to Iguodala in that he's a true Swiss army knife on defense. Plug and play almost wherever you want.

    He's one of the absolute best two-way players in the league, and he is on a pretty darn cheap contract for two more years given what he can provide. He's the most valuable commodity that is potentially available this summer.

    That being said, I don't think Cleveland is a match unless they can get really creative with a third team, or unless Paxson/Forman really blink. The Cavs don't have the assets to get Butler unless it involves Irving, and that isn't happening. Boston is the place that makes more sense from an assets perspective. They have the pile of high draft picks that would facilitate a rebuild for the Bulls.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    A few things here:
    1. I totally agree that Butler is less of a fit offensively on the floor with Irving and James than either Love or George. He's at his best with the ball in his hands, and is more of a scorer than a shooter. That said, he's also very good without the ball (especially on back-door alley-oops), and having facilitators like James is a nice plus. He's also a perfect guy to fill in the "LeBron" role when LeBron sits. No, he's not nearly as good as LeBron, but he can play the same position at an All-NBA level while LeBron sits, rather than having replacement-level play there.
    2. He does in fact have a ton of experience without the ball in his hands, as the first several years of his career (with Rose at PG and then with Noah as "point center") he was an off-ball player. It's only in the last couple of years that he's expanded his role to be a ball-dominant player.
    3. Defensively, he's a HUGE get for whoever gets him. You say "1 to 3" here, but he is more than capable of guarding PFs too, and he's not overwhelmed by most centers. He's 6'7", 220lb, and basically defensively similar to Iguodala in that he's a true Swiss army knife on defense. Plug and play almost wherever you want.

    He's one of the absolute best two-way players in the league, and he is on a pretty darn cheap contract for two more years given what he can provide. He's the most valuable commodity that is potentially available this summer.

    That being said, I don't think Cleveland is a match unless they can get really creative with a third team, or unless Paxson/Forman really blink. The Cavs don't have the assets to get Butler unless it involves Irving, and that isn't happening. Boston is the place that makes more sense from an assets perspective. They have the pile of high draft picks that would facilitate a rebuild for the Bulls.
    CDu, what do you think of Butler's chances of slowing down (not stopping) Durant? I mean, that's what this trade would be about, essentially.

    Have you seen Butler and Durant matched up enough to make a determination either way? It'd be a small sample, of course, since different conferences.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    CDu, what do you think of Butler's chances of slowing down (not stopping) Durant? I mean, that's what this trade would be about, essentially.

    Have you seen Butler and Durant matched up enough to make a determination either way? It'd be a small sample, of course, since different conferences.
    Butler is as capable as anyone against Durant. He isn't stopping Durant, of course. Nobody does that. But when not burdened with playing 40+ minutes AND carrying the offense, he is as good as it gets defensively against SG/SF/PF.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    Butler is as capable as anyone against Durant. He isn't stopping Durant, of course. Nobody does that. But when not burdened with playing 40+ minutes AND carrying the offense, he is as good as it gets defensively against SG/SF/PF.
    Kawhi Leonard might take exception to that.

    That said, Butler is a remarkable defender and would be a major upgrade to the Cavs D.

    -Jason "I wonder, with a lot of young talent that has value, could the Spurs get involved in some of this Butler/George talk? I actually think the Spurs are a lot closer to the Warriors than folks realize" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Kawhi Leonard might take exception to that.

    That said, Butler is a remarkable defender and would be a major upgrade to the Cavs D.

    -Jason "I wonder, with a lot of young talent that has value, could the Spurs get involved in some of this Butler/George talk? I actually think the Spurs are a lot closer to the Warriors than folks realize" Evans
    Yeah, fair point. Leonard is probably better, especially against bigger guys. But after him, I would take Butler defensively over/even with anyone else in that category. He is that good and that versatile defensively.

    If he was only a little better as a shooter, he would be darn near the type of perfect player. He isn't a bad shooter, but he definitely isn't a knock-down shooter.

    As for the Spurs, I don't think they have the assets to make a trade for either guy.

  16. #16
    Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA 11m11 minutes ago
    Lakers are trading Tim Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell to Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick Thursday, sources say.



    Wow, that's the cost of signing Mozgov to a dumb contract. You have to give away a young asset like Russell* to get rid of the contract. Lopez's contract is expiring, so the Lakers are setting themselves up for 2018 free agency. I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped out of the Paul George pursuit at this point.

    * While there is some reason to believe Russell won't ever live up to his #2 draft slot, it's also a bit early to be giving up on him. That's why the Nets were interested and willing to take on Mozgov.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA 11m11 minutes ago
    Lakers are trading Tim Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell to Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick Thursday, sources say.



    Wow, that's the cost of signing Mozgov to a dumb contract. You have to give away a young asset like Russell* to get rid of the contract. Lopez's contract is expiring, so the Lakers are setting themselves up for 2018 free agency. I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped out of the Paul George pursuit at this point.

    * While there is some reason to believe Russell won't ever live up to his #2 draft slot, it's also a bit early to be giving up on him. That's why the Nets were interested and willing to take on Mozgov.
    Since the Nets basically never have their first round pick again, this is the only way for them to get young talent. Eating Mozgov's salary for three years isn't a bad way to do it, and Russell seems like a worthy risk to take a flier on.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Adrian WojnarowskiVerified account @WojVerticalNBA 11m11 minutes ago
    Lakers are trading Tim Mozgov and D'Angelo Russell to Nets for Brook Lopez and 27th pick Thursday, sources say.



    Wow, that's the cost of signing Mozgov to a dumb contract. You have to give away a young asset like Russell* to get rid of the contract. Lopez's contract is expiring, so the Lakers are setting themselves up for 2018 free agency. I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped out of the Paul George pursuit at this point.

    * While there is some reason to believe Russell won't ever live up to his #2 draft slot, it's also a bit early to be giving up on him. That's why the Nets were interested and willing to take on Mozgov.
    This is a terrible trade for both sides IMO. The Nets give up their best player by far for a young player who is not living up to the hype and a terrible contract. Also, might I mention that Russell is a point guard, which Lin is also? Who is the ball-dominant? Then the Lakers give up a core piece of their future for an expiring contract. Is this confirmation that they're drafting Ball? I just don't see this working out well for either side.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by drummerdevil View Post
    This is a terrible trade for both sides IMO. The Nets give up their best player by far for a young player who is not living up to the hype and a terrible contract. Also, might I mention that Russell is a point guard, which Lin is also? Who is the ball-dominant? Then the Lakers give up a core piece of their future for an expiring contract. Is this confirmation that they're drafting Ball? I just don't see this working out well for either side.
    Must mean the Lakers are taking Ball.
    Last edited by kshepinthehouse; 06-20-2017 at 06:43 PM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by drummerdevil View Post
    This is a terrible trade for both sides IMO. The Nets give up their best player by far for a young player who is not living up to the hype and a terrible contract. Also, might I mention that Russell is a point guard, which Lin is also? Who is the ball-dominant? Then the Lakers give up a core piece of their future for an expiring contract. Is this confirmation that they're drafting Ball? I just don't see this working out well for either side.
    I think the Nets made a good trade. Russell is only 21 years old and could still blossom. Lopez is expiring and isn't part of the future for a rebuilding team like the Nets anyway. But I think you're right to criticize the Lakers.

    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    Since the Nets basically never have their first round pick again, this is the only way for them to get young talent. Eating Mozgov's salary for three years isn't a bad way to do it, and Russell seems like a worthy risk to take a flier on.
    Excellent point.

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