2017 NBA Finals

[pfrduke]

so, who are the free agents this off season?

Curry
Lebron
George
JJ
PJ Hairston




who else?

Curry is going to get a max from the Warriors, so is a free agent only technically. LeBron has a player option (ETA: No he doesn't, not until after 2018). George is not a free agent until next summer.

[pfrduke]

Further replying to myself, people who are not tied via guaranteed year or team option to their teams next year include:

Durant - player option
Curry - unrestricted
Paul - player option
Griffin - player option
Hayward - player option
Lowry - player option
Millsap - player option
Ibaka - unrestricted
Iguodala - unrestricted

[Troublemaker]

If the cavs can get PG I agree they should, but this is just speculation with no basis of having any momentum of actually happening. Paul George is rumored to go to LA in 2018. I don't see the Cavs trading 3 years of Kevin Love for 1 year of Paul George.

Also, haven't multiple superstars has worked out for the Warriors, but I don't think it will always happen like that. Paul George would have to be willing to have the ball a lot less, which he may be fine with but who knows. I've seen multiple examples of players who don't play nearly as well if they don't have the ball in their hands a lot. Durant/Curry both adjusted exceptionally well to losing touches.

Both Kevin Love and Bosh took a hit in value after playing with Lebron and seeing a significant decrease in touches.

In summary, even if a team can match the talent level of the Warriors they would also need to math the chemistry they have, which could definitely be a challenge. I didn't see the Warriors meshing as well as they did this year, but since they did, look what happened.

Unless the DBR host server ate some posts again, I'm not sure what you are responding to here.

Nobody is suggesting this trade is likely and/or on the cusp of really happening, and nobody is suggesting this trade would make the Cavs better than GSW.

It's just a reasonable trade idea for Day 1 of the offseason that theoretically could narrow the gap between the two teams. Out of all the fan trade ideas that have ever been suggested on the internet, Love-for-George probably ranks in the 90th percentile, frankly.

[Troublemaker]

No trade would work without George making a longer term commitment to the Cavs as part of the trade (LBJ would probably have to do the same).

The Cavs don't have any leverage to force either Lebron or George into a long-term commitment, imo, much less both. Cleveland has to look at the situation as them having one more year of Lebron. Now, what do they want to do with that year? Do they run the same team back out there, or do they try to change it up?

[cato]

They're not just going to give it another go with the same squad.

Well, no. Not in the sense that every team is different from the one year before. But why wouldn't they go with the same big three, plus whatever they can fit around them, if that's the best they can get? The Warriors are not guantanteed anything.

Any move has to make sense. If nothing makes sense, then try again next year and see what happens. The season is long and even if healthy, there is no guaranty that the Warriors can put together the same run.

[Matches]

Well, no. Not in the sense that every team is different from the one year before. But why wouldn't they go with the same big three, plus whatever they can fit around them, if that's the best they can get? The Warriors are not guantanteed anything.

Any move has to make sense. If nothing makes sense, then try again next year and see what happens. The season is long and even if healthy, there is no guaranty that the Warriors can put together the same run.

If the Cavs run (essentially) the same team out there next year and lose to GSW again, which would be likely to happen barring some sort of major GSW injury, Lebron leaves next summer. He may leave anyway. The Cavs need to push their chips to the center of the table and go for it. In that context, Love for George makes sense, because it makes them better next year. Long term maybe not so much, but the Cavs don't have the luxury of thinking long-term right now. They've got one more year of Lebron and they need to give themselves the best possible chance to take advantage of it.

[cato]

The Cavs need to push their chips to the center of the table and go for it.

Oh, for sure. But that could easily mean keeping Love.

[kAzE]

Oh, for sure. But that could easily mean keeping Love.

In my opinion, the only option they have is to trade Love. Right now, the Cavs cannot put their 5 best players on the floor at the same time against the Warriors, because they can't get away with having both Thompson and Love on the floor at the same time. They need to trade one of them, and get a starting forward who can guard on the perimeter. If they trade Thompson, then they basically have no rim protection whatsoever. I think it has to be Love.

Anybody who thinks the Cavs wouldn't trade 3 years of Love for 1 year of Paul George doesn't understand the meaning of "win now." That's a risk you have to be willing to take to win a championship. They are not beating the Warriors with the team as it is currently constructed. If anyone says no to that, it would be the Pacers, and only in the case that they could somehow convince George to stay long term or somehow find a better trade offer. But if it did happen, it would probably be closer to the deadline than during free agency.

[Ichabod Drain]

In my opinion, the only option they have is to trade Love. Right now, the Cavs cannot put their 5 best players on the floor at the same time against the Warriors, because they can't get away with having both Thompson and Love on the floor at the same time. They need to trade one of them, and get a starting forward who can guard on the perimeter. If they trade Thompson, then they basically have no rim protection whatsoever. I think it has to be Love.

This, and the fact that just their starting five will most likely be above the salary cap next year. So there won't be a lot of options for improving their bench.

[DukeTrinity11]

In my opinion, the only option they have is to trade Love. Right now, the Cavs cannot put their 5 best players on the floor at the same time against the Warriors, because they can't get away with having both Thompson and Love on the floor at the same time. They need to trade one of them, and get a starting forward who can guard on the perimeter. If they trade Thompson, then they basically have no rim protection whatsoever. I think it has to be Love.

Anybody who thinks the Cavs wouldn't trade 3 years of Love for 1 year of Paul George doesn't understand the meaning of "win now." That's a risk you have to be willing to take to win a championship. They are not beating the Warriors with the team as it is currently constructed. If anyone says no to that, it would be the Pacers, and only in the case that they could somehow convince George to stay long term or somehow find a better trade offer. But if it did happen, it would probably be closer to the deadline than during free agency.

LeBron needs to try in the regular season and make sure the Cavs have the best regular season record in the NBA to ensure that the Cavs get the first 2 games at home with the Dubs rather than the other way around.

I think GSW will coast a little bit this upcoming regular season knowing that they're in the drivers seat for another title.

I think the Cavs could have pushed this series to 7 games had they not choked in Game 3. Essentially, as it stands, its very difficult for either of these teams to beat the other one on the road.

In a Game 7, even if its at the Oracle, anything can happen.

[Troublemaker]

In my opinion, the only option they have is to trade Love. Right now, the Cavs cannot put their 5 best players on the floor at the same time against the Warriors, because they can't get away with having both Thompson and Love on the floor at the same time. They need to trade one of them, and get a starting forward who can guard on the perimeter. If they trade Thompson, then they basically have no rim protection whatsoever. I think it has to be Love.

Anybody who thinks the Cavs wouldn't trade 3 years of Love for 1 year of Paul George doesn't understand the meaning of "win now." That's a risk you have to be willing to take to win a championship. They are not beating the Warriors with the team as it is currently constructed. If anyone says no to that, it would be the Pacers, and only in the case that they could somehow convince George to stay long term or somehow find a better trade offer. But if it did happen, it would probably be closer to the deadline than during free agency.

I also doubt that other teams would value Thompson that much in a trade. He's a good player but more valuable to the Cavs than he would be to other non-contending teams like the Pacers.

LeBron needs to try in the regular season and make sure the Cavs have the best regular season record in the NBA to ensure that the Cavs get the first 2 games at home with the Dubs rather than the other way around.

I think GSW will coast a little bit this upcoming regular season knowing that they're in the drivers seat for another title.

I think the Cavs could have pushed this series to 7 games had they not choked in Game 3. Essentially, as it stands, its very difficult for either of these teams to beat the other one on the road.

In a Game 7, even if its at the Oracle, anything can happen.

I think GSW is so talented, they will win 65-70 games every year even while coasting. I mean, they rested players a decent amount this season and won 67; Durant missed a bunch of games with injury as well. I think it makes sense for Lebron, Kyrie, et al to just continue to chill during the regular season and rest themselves for the playoffs. Not sure they would look so good during the playoffs if they went all out for the 82 games prior (and that effort wouldn't even guarantee that they'd get homecourt).

[cato]

In my opinion, the only option they have is to trade Love. Right now, the Cavs cannot put their 5 best players on the floor at the same time against the Warriors, because they can't get away with having both Thompson and Love on the floor at the same time. They need to trade one of them, and get a starting forward who can guard on the perimeter. If they trade Thompson, then they basically have no rim protection whatsoever. I think it has to be Love.

Anybody who thinks the Cavs wouldn't trade 3 years of Love for 1 year of Paul George doesn't understand the meaning of "win now." That's a risk you have to be willing to take to win a championship. They are not beating the Warriors with the team as it is currently constructed. If anyone says no to that, it would be the Pacers, and only in the case that they could somehow convince George to stay long term or somehow find a better trade offer. But if it did happen, it would probably be closer to the deadline than during free agency.

I'll try one more time, and then drop it.

Love produced for the Cavs in the post-season. If there is a deal on the table for Love that the Cavs think will improve the team, I agree that they will go for it. But there is a very real risk that they will be worse off without Love than they are with the current team.

The Cavs are too smart to do something just for the safe of doing something. I am skeptical that they will find a trade partner offering sufficient value for Love. I think there is a decent chance that they keep the core together because that will be their best option.

[sagegrouse]

I'll try one more time, and then drop it.

Love produced for the Cavs in the post-season. If there is a deal on the table for Love that the Cavs think will improve the team, I agree that they will go for it. But there is a very real risk that they will be worse off without Love than they are with the current team.

The Cavs are too smart to do something just for the safe of doing something. I am skeptical that they will find a trade partner offering sufficient value for Love. I think there is a decent chance that they keep the core together because that will be their best option.

I wouldn't advise the Cavs to distort or significantly change their roster just to compete against the Warriors. There are 30 teams, and the Cavs will only play the Warriors in the finals -- and maybe someone else from the West will beat them or maybe the Warriors won't play as well in the future or maybe they have have injuries (I hope not).

At most, I would look for ways to get better incrementally (and I am OK with trading Love for equal value), and I might make moves to strengthen the defense, since the Cavs are a very good offensive team but not nearly as good on defense.

Also, I thought Curry, Durant and the other Warriors at times -- 4th quarter of game five, e.g. -- played at an unbelievable level of skill and efficiency. Best I've ever seen. At that level, they may be impossible to beat. The Cavs should play their game, work on defensive talent and schemes, and see what happens.

[kAzE]

I wouldn't advise the Cavs to distort or significantly change their roster just to compete against the Warriors.

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. They 100% need to change their roster to beat the Warriors. It's the #1 thing the Cavs entire organization will be thinking about this entire off season and next season all the way up to the trade deadline, and should be the #1 factor when considering any roster moves. Hoping they lose in the Western playoffs is not a strategy.

You have to do everything in your power to make sure you have the horses to compete with Golden State. Anything else is secondary. LeBron doesn't care about regular season record or playoff seeding.

But in a way, configuring your roster to beat the Warriors helps against most other teams in the league. Pretty much everybody is moving towards pace and space. Everyone except the Pelicans, that is . . .

But there is a very real risk that they will be worse off without Love than they are with the current team.

Of course there's a risk. There's always a risk. But if they don't take that risk, they will probably they lose in the exact same way next year. LeBron is not going to be fine with the status quo. They need to improve, and they have to do it now, because LeBron has 1 year left on his deal. I would be shocked if they showed up to the 2018 playoffs with the same team.

[sagegrouse]

I wholeheartedly disagree with this. They 100% need to change their roster to beat the Warriors. It's the #1 thing the Cavs entire organization will be thinking about this entire off season and next season all the way up to the trade deadline, and should be the #1 factor when considering any roster moves. Hoping they lose in the Western playoffs is not a strategy.

You have to do everything in your power to make sure you have the horses to compete with Golden State. Anything else is secondary. LeBron doesn't care about regular season record or playoff seeding.

But in a way, configuring your roster to beat the Warriors helps against most other teams in the league. Pretty much everybody is moving towards pace and space. Everyone except the Pelicans, that is . . .



Of course there's a risk. There's always a risk. But if they don't take that risk, they will probably they lose in the exact same way next year. LeBron is not going to be fine with the status quo. They need to improve, and they have to do it now, because LeBron has 1 year left on his deal. I would be shocked if they showed up to the 2018 playoffs with the same team.

OK, but I cited four points that you didn't even address:

1. The Warriors are not a shoo-in to advance to the finals. Other West teams are gunning for them.
2. The Warriors may not play as well as a team in the future.
3. There may be injuries or other inhibitions that limit their ability to compete.
4. the Warriors are amazingly good, at their best; maybe the Cavs should take their chances in the future.

Not said but implicit in my post is that changes in direction for the Cavs, such as major changes to the roster, carry big risks as well. Moreover, the Cavs have made the finals three years in a row. Who's to say they won't win next year?

I did say the Cavs, within limits, should work on their defense, including swapping out Kevin Love is they receive equal value and better defense.

[moonpie23]

[*]The Warriors are not a shoo-in to advance to the finals. Other West teams are gunning for them.[*]The Warriors may not play as well as a team in the future.[*]There may be injuries or other inhibitions that limit their ability to compete.[*]the Warriors are amazingly good, at their best; maybe the Cavs should take their chances in the future.[/LIST]

sorry...i'm seeing it differently...

1 - yes, they are...they just came within a game of SWEEPING The entire finals...they DID sweep the west....teams can gun for them all they want, but the warriors are on a different level..

2 - actually, there's reason to think they may be even better....KD was out of a good bit of this season, but he should integrate into this system even better next year.

3 - true

[darthur]

1 - yes, they are...they just came within a game of SWEEPING The entire finals...they DID sweep the west...teams can gun for them all they want, but the warriors are on a different level..

From a Cavs' strategy perspective, I agree with you that the Cavs should plan for the Warriors first and foremost.

However, I think it's worth pointing out that the Spurs, when healthy, continue to give the Warriors fits. Barring regressions, the Spurs can and should feel like they would have a real chance against the Warriors in a playoff series.

Regarding playing as well together, I don't really see chemistry being an issue in he near future, but I think the Warriors had a kind of sell-your-soul-for-a-championship intensity this year that they might not always be able to replicate. That certainly seemed lacking at times during OKC last year for example.

[cato]

However, I think it's worth pointing out that the Spurs, when healthy, continue to give the Warriors fits.

Just sweep the leg. Problem solved.

[Duke79UNLV77]

The Cavs biggest issue (besides the fact that Durant was insane) in the Finals may not have been that they were a star player short so much as their role players did not play up to their capability. Korver, Jefferson, Shumpert, and Williams got a ton of open 3-point looks, thanks to the defense's focus on LeBron and Kyrie. They were only 9-45 in the Series, despite being a big part of why Cleveland took even more 3s and shot an even higher percentage than GS during the regular season. Meanwhile, Thompson only averaged 5.8 rebounds per game. LeBron and Kyrie combined for 63 points per game on excellent shooting. The Cavs could have hoped for more offensive consistency from their third star, as Love just averaged 16 ppg on 38% shooting.

[JNort]

If only they never would have traded Love for Wiggins and not given Thompson that awful contract (still blows my mind). They would have a better wing defender who can switch on the wings which helps big time against GS. Saved a ton of money which in turn let's them sign better role players. O and they would still be set up for a good future after LeBron with Wiggins and Kyrie in their primes.