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  1. #321
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    You prevert! 😋😎

    [redacted] them and the horses they rode in on.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by devildeac View Post

    Perfect.
       

  3. #323
    I was listening to the Colorado Rockies game this evening and they were interviewing the head of scouting for the team, regarding the team's draft choices. He mentioned a pitcher that was drafted who had pitched for UNC but had academic problems and had to sit this year out. I did a double take, of course, because after all ... how can it be possible for a UNC athlete to have academic problems? I had to do a quick online search, and sure enough ... there is a picture of him in a UNC uniform, but the draft list shows him as "no school". Still, I guess this isn't conclusive proof ... "no school" could well be a synonym for UNC.

  4. #324
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by 75Crazie View Post
    ... "no school" could well be a synonym for UNC.
    Close ... acronym:
    "no class" - as in UNC = University of No Class(es)

  5. #325
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Wait, the NCAA can punish a coach for some systematic failing even though he "didn't know about it"?

    Well, I'll be. Shucks.

    ;-)
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  6. #326
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Wait, the NCAA can punish a coach for some systematic failing even though he "didn't know about it"?

    Well, I'll be. Shucks.

    ;-)
    Not if Jay Bilas has anything to say about it.

    I mean c'mon, you really can't expect a busy coach with a schedule full of golf and massages to be able to keep track of the goings-on of TWELVE DIFFERENT athletes.
    "UNC makes me think of a pile of vomit in a school hallway. They keep trying to throw more and more of that peppermint neutralizer on it and act like it's candy, but the puke smell won't go away." -- (Internet-winning comment on N&O article re: UNX cheating scandal)

  7. #327
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Not if Jay Bilas has anything to say about it.

    I mean c'mon, you really can't expect a busy coach with a schedule full of golf and massages to be able to keep track of the goings-on of TWELVE DIFFERENT athletes.
    As Huck often says, "I guess I'm just not that frickin' smart"
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  8. #328
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Rosenrosen View Post
    Not if Jay Bilas has anything to say about it.

    I mean c'mon, you really can't expect a busy coach with a schedule full of golf and massages to be able to keep track of the goings-on of TWELVE DIFFERENT athletes.
    It was good you didn't include walk-ons because I don't think Roy gives a x about walk-ons. ��
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  9. #329
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    As Huck often says, "I guess I'm just not that frickin' smart"
    Frikin' smart enough to personally keep out of the line of fire, which is more than can be said for Boeheim and Pitino. His program might have gotten away with it completely. I guess he correctly figured that the whole thing could be successfully whitewashed (Martin Report, at least as far as the NCAA was concerned). He just didn't anticipate that the administration would not be satisfied with success and launch yet another investigation (Wainstein). He's still scratching his head about that one.

  10. #330
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by swood1000 View Post
    Frikin' smart enough to personally keep out of the line of fire, which is more than can be said for Boeheim and Pitino. His program might have gotten away with it completely. I guess he correctly figured that the whole thing could be successfully whitewashed (Martin Report, at least as far as the NCAA was concerned). He just didn't anticipate that the administration would not be satisfied with success and launch yet another investigation (Wainstein). He's still scratching his head about that one.
    (Pulls mask off of the Phantom Class)

    All: {gasp} "Coach Williams!!!!"

    Roy: "And I would have gotten away with it, if it wasn't for those meddling kids"
    1991 -- 1992 -- 2001 -- 2010 -- 2015

  11. #331
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Wake Forest, NC
    Bump this one back to the front page. Never let the Cheats think that they got away with it!
       

  12. #332
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    raleigh
    Quote Originally Posted by Chillduck View Post
    Bump this one back to the front page. Never let the Cheats think that they got away with it!
    hate to admit it, but, they did...
    "Either they're going down, or we are! Kirk out!"

  13. #333
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Triangle, NC

    Bilas... SMH

    Woke up to this drivel in the newpaper... More evidence Bilas is a UNC Homer... Did he really go to Duke??!!
    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/spo...156649234.html
    cbarry
    Morrisville, NC
    Duke '92

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by cbarry View Post
    Woke up to this drivel in the newpaper... More evidence Bilas is a UNC Homer... Did he really go to Duke??!!
    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/spo...156649234.html
    What a pile of horse hockey! Not worth the time to debate it, Bilas has gone off the deep end.

  15. #335
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Quote Originally Posted by BigWayne View Post
    What a pile of horse hockey! Not worth the time to debate it, Bilas has gone off the deep end.
    I disagree. I find it helpful to hear strong voices on the other side of an issue from where i stand. It's easy to dismiss those voices just because they don't agree with one's stance.

    In this case, I just think Jay Bilas is wrong. And I think he's missing something by setting this up as a technical legal defense without apparently even mentioning the obvious big picture shenanigans at UNC-CH. Jay comes to this with a predisposition to think the NCAA over-reaches. We've seen it before on other issues. Combine that predisposition with his genuine admiration of Roy Williams, and it makes sense that he'd have this blind spot.

    But a blind spot it is. I like Jay Bilas. He's a smart guy, and I listen to and consider what he has to say. I just disagree with him here and think his anti-NCAA and pro-Roy instincts have led him astray.

    But I believe he speaks in good faith, and I appreciate his views, because when I conclude he's wrong about this issue, it heartens me to know that I've considered the reasoned viewpoint of someone whose views I respect and still concluded he's wrong. It's not a character issue with Jay; just a disagreement.
    Henderson
    All of them

  16. #336
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    I disagree. I find it helpful to hear strong voices on the other side of an issue from where i stand. It's easy to dismiss those voices just because they don't agree with one's stance.

    In this case, I just think Jay Bilas is wrong. And I think he's missing something by setting this up as a technical legal defense without apparently even mentioning the obvious big picture shenanigans at UNC-CH. Jay comes to this with a predisposition to think the NCAA over-reaches. We've seen it before on other issues. Combine that predisposition with his genuine admiration of Roy Williams, and it makes sense that he'd have this blind spot.

    But a blind spot it is. I like Jay Bilas. He's a smart guy, and I listen to and consider what he has to say. I just disagree with him here and think his anti-NCAA and pro-Roy instincts have led him astray.

    But I believe he speaks in good faith, and I appreciate his views, because when I conclude he's wrong about this issue, it heartens me to know that I've considered the reasoned viewpoint of someone whose views I respect and still concluded he's wrong. It's not a character issue with Jay; just a disagreement.
    Upon reconsideration, I think Henderson is right. It's going to come down to whether the NCAA's purview is as narrowly circumscribed as Jay B thinks it is. I've seen quoted on this board NCAA bylaws mentioning academic integrity that seem to imply they have a broader authority* than he admits, but it's not clear that they're going to rely on it ... instead, the focus may be on "extra benefits" angle. Having re-read the Charlotte Observer article, he seems to be making a strictly legal case, and to hear him tell it, it does seem plausible that UNC could prevail on appeal, having in very bad faith exploited a loophole, a gap between the jurisdictions of SACS and NCAA. [if they skate, perhaps we should be more upset at SACS than the NCAA]

    All that said, what I find much more disappointing is that it seems that Jay B wants them to get away with it. He may be making a rational, legal argument, but it conspicuously lacks a sense of regret that UNC cheated so brazenly for so long. Perhaps he's less pro-UNC than he is anti-NCAA, and is just following the time-honored principle of "the enemy of the enemy is my friend." It would be one thing if he said, "What UNC did was terrible and they should be ashamed. Unfortunately, the NCAA and SACS lack the tools to prevent something like this; they deftly exploited a loophole in collegiate governance, and we must work to close it so this sort of thing cannot happen again." We're not hearing that. And so one is left with the uncomfortable sense that he has no trouble with what they did. He's not merely holding the NCAA up to a legal standard and saying their case falls short; I think many of us would grudgingly accept that, if that's all it was. The trouble is, he's practically been a character witness for the defense.

    * whatever was quoted from the NCAA bylaws reminded me a bit of a constitutional general welfare clause, in terms of its scope.

  17. #337

    Good Faith

    Quote Originally Posted by Henderson View Post
    But I believe he speaks in good faith, and I appreciate his views, because when I conclude he's wrong about this issue, it heartens me to know that I've considered the reasoned viewpoint of someone whose views I respect and still concluded he's wrong. It's not a character issue with Jay; just a disagreement.
    I think that he is not speaking in good faith. That perception, more than anything else, might be the reason why so many folks on the board think less of him now. Arguing in good faith requires that a person hear out and consider other sides to the argument (pretty much what you suggested in your post people should do). Bilas' statements clearly reflect that he has not reviewed (or has otherwise dismissed) the actual facts. He also pushes his position in a loud and vociferous manner that is not conducive to calm rebuttal or discussion. He isn't interested in hearing any other point of view.

    Good faith is a sincere intention to deal fairly with the other party. Aside from the fact that he is arguing in support of an organization that has failed in precisely that, Bilas himself fails because of the nature of his argument. He is basically arguing that UNC should get off without punishment based on a technicality (he's wrong; the technical aspects of the case clearly do not favor UNC and he is making things up). That's not necessarily a bad strategy, from a lawyer's perspective, to take; moreover, sometimes people should get off on technicalities in order to preserve the integrity of the system.

    I do not think Bilas' arguments (if they can be even called such) fall into the category of the good-faith exculpatory argument. Instead, I think it is instructive to take a look at the opening paragraph of the Wikipedia article for Good Faith in the context of law. Specifically,

    A lawsuit (or a cause of action) based upon the breach of the covenant may arise when one party to the contract attempts to claim the benefit of a technical excuse for breaching the contract, or when he or she uses specific contractual terms in isolation in order to refuse to perform his or her contractual obligations, despite the general circumstances and understandings between the parties.
    TL;DR Not arguing in good faith is something Bilas has in common with the Cheats.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by cspan37421 View Post

    All that said, what I find much more disappointing is that it seems that Jay B wants them to get away with it. He may be making a rational, legal argument, but it conspicuously lacks a sense of regret that UNC cheated so brazenly for so long. Perhaps he's less pro-UNC than he is anti-NCAA, and is just following the time-honored principle of "the enemy of the enemy is my friend." It would be one thing if he said, "What UNC did was terrible and they should be ashamed. Unfortunately, the NCAA and SACS lack the tools to prevent something like this; they deftly exploited a loophole in collegiate governance, and we must work to close it so this sort of thing cannot happen again." We're not hearing that. And so one is left with the uncomfortable sense that he has no trouble with what they did. He's not merely holding the NCAA up to a legal standard and saying their case falls short; I think many of us would grudgingly accept that, if that's all it was. The trouble is, he's practically been a character witness for the defense.

    * whatever was quoted from the NCAA bylaws reminded me a bit of a constitutional general welfare clause, in terms of its scope.
    I don't think he has ever once made excuses for UNC or even suggested that what they did was anything less than despicable. I believe that he truly sees the UNC case as beyond the scope of the NCAA. And the reason he is advocating for UNC to get off, is that he wants to see the NCAA embarrassed.

    I think projecting into this any sort of UNC-apologist behavior ignores the degree to which Jay loathes the NCAA. I am also willing to admit that - given his legal background - he might be correct about the NCAA's inability to win, should UNC appeal (and should the NCAA ever hand down penalties).

    I like Jay. I don't agree with everything he says, and I don't think the NCAA is as evil as he does, but I also appreciate that someone is willing to hold their feet to the fire.

    The NCAA is a fickle organization, as it showed again this week. It seems to have a tendency to check the wind before making any proclamations. People were disgusted with the Louisville case, so they handed down stricter penalties than simply for the dollar amount of the benefits. People everywhere were understandably appalled by the Penn State case several years ago, so the NCAA stepped in and made a big deal over their penalties - even though I still don't understand what grounds they were penalized under.

    Mind you - I am not excusing any of these actions. I am just saying that a meter maid can't give speeding tickets any more than state trooper can toss you in jail for poor fashion choices. I don't call animal control to complain about workplace safety issues.

    I still find UNC's actions almost as repugnant as Louisville's. The systematic cheating scandal ought to mortify everyone associated with the athletic programs affected. If the NCAA can prove players would have been otherwise ineligible, banner should come down. The decades long abuse of athletes should hang around the neck of the university almost as much as their obscene methods of attempting to skirt the consequences.

    I just don't fault Jay for disagreeing with me.
       

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I don't think he has ever once made excuses for UNC or even suggested that what they did was anything less than despicable. I believe that he truly sees the UNC case as beyond the scope of the NCAA. And the reason he is advocating for UNC to get off, is that he wants to see the NCAA embarrassed..
    A few interesting facts:
    1) Jay's boss at ESPN is a UNC grad
    2) ESPN recently let go over 100 on-air personalities
    3) Jay has been a consistent defender of UNC's interests
    4) Jay was not let go.

    I'm not saying they have anything to do with each other...just putting it out there No doubt, he wants to see the NCAA embarassed and weakend.

  20. #340
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Correct side of the Durham/CH border
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    I don't think he has ever once made excuses for UNC or even suggested that what they did was anything less than despicable.
    So, among the various things he has said and done, how are we to explain Jay interviewing Roy in front of 11 former players:

    https://www.tarheelblog.com/2014/6/9...ts-allegations

    IMO... THAT was despicable.
    "UNC makes me think of a pile of vomit in a school hallway. They keep trying to throw more and more of that peppermint neutralizer on it and act like it's candy, but the puke smell won't go away." -- (Internet-winning comment on N&O article re: UNX cheating scandal)

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