United drags passenger off flight, PR distaster ensues

[OldPhiKap]

The important lesson to learn from all of this is that "might makes right now". Regardless of whether policies, procedures and the law is followed or not, once you board an airplane you become subject to the ORDERS of the flight crew. They may phrase things in the form of a request, such as "asking" this passenger to deplane, but the truth is they are orders that will be enforced as soon as law enforcement becomes available.

Remember that the next time you are on a flight. The local authority (the flight crew) is in absolute control and disobey them at your own risk.

Just as with the police, your safety is dependent on you making the authority on the scene believing you are compliant and not a threat. Even if you disagree, there are better, more productive and most importantly safer ways to lodge a formal complain than trying to fight authority. Hint: John Mellancamp sung about this, and authority always won.

I'm not opposed to a little civil disobedience once in awhile. Sometimes, it's the most effective way to bring about change.

(And the law in this regard is about to change, fer sure)

[PackMan97]

I'm not opposed to a little civil disobedience once in awhile. Sometimes, it's the most effective way to bring about change.

(And the law in this regard is about to change, fer sure)

I'm not against it either, and I agree with you. It's just important to realize what you are signing up for when you disagree with an order.

Right now my 6 year old is having trouble understanding that failure to comply has negative consequences and he doesn't get to choose those consequences.

[weezie]

Maybe I've missed the news but it seems a bit manipulated that while the doctor targeted in the altercation was identified by the press for his DEA license issues, the gate agent making the decision to send in the security jackboots has not been ferreted out as far as I know. Something smells a bit fishy...

[Jeffrey]

Right now my 6 year old is having trouble understanding that failure to comply has negative consequences and he doesn't get to choose those consequences.

On behalf of your 6 year old, "that's a real bummer, man."

[Reddevil]

I strongly disagree with this. This is victim blaming.

United had options to de-escalate, but chose instead to use violence. Dr. Dao paid for his ticket, he boarded legally, he was in his seat, had a valid reason to want to get home on time, and was not posing a threat to the aircraft or other passengers. He could have acceded to the arbitrary demand that he de-plane, sure. But it is the perpetrator of the assault and the company that created the situation that caused the assault that are to blame here.

Jane, you ignorant slut! Kidding, but as has been pointed out before, the captain and crew are in charge just as if I am on your boat, I need to comply with your orders. Did lines get crossed? Heck yeah, but just because someone is more wrong, does not mean both parties could not have behaved more appropriately. I am not talking about legality, just maturity.

[Reisen]

It's not just prior to boarding. I fly all the time (in an airline lounge at the moment, actually). and have seen people removed from full flights numerous times, and have actually been one of those people myself. It is poor handling by gate agents, but don't get me started there...

[cato]

It's not just prior to boarding. I fly all the time (in an airline lounge at the moment, actually). and have seen people removed from full flights numerous times, and have actually been one of those people myself. It is poor handling by gate agents, but don't get me started there...

But is it allowed?

[Wander]

Jane, you ignorant slut! Kidding, but as has been pointed out before, the captain and crew are in charge just as if I am on your boat, I need to comply with your orders. Did lines get crossed? Heck yeah, but just because someone is more wrong, does not mean both parties could not have behaved more appropriately. I am not talking about legality, just maturity.

Your view seems to be in conflict with your listed location! If the passenger had just followed orders and filed a complaint afterward like some people on this thread seem to be supporting, absolutely nothing would change and no one would be talking about this.

I'm not one of these crazy people who thinks every single time you don't get your way on some issue you need to stage a protest, but to me this is a pretty straightforward case where disobedience was used very well against an unfair (and possibly illegal) policy.

[gus]

Jane, you ignorant slut! Kidding, but as has been pointed out before, the captain and crew are in charge just as if I am on your boat, I need to comply with your orders. Did lines get crossed? Heck yeah, but just because someone is more wrong, does not mean both parties could not have behaved more appropriately. I am not talking about legality, just maturity.

Why? I'll listen to the captain when out at see or in the air with the assumption that their commands are meant for my safety. Heck, I even turn off electronic devices and give the stink eye to people who don't, even though I know there's really no logical reason to think that the plane's navigation system is so sensitive that my iphone staying on will crash the plane.

But if the captain says "give me your cash" there's no way in hell I'm complying. Their authority is not absolute, and I absolutely and unequivocally reject the notion that passengers, particularly when the plane is still at the gate, must listen to all commands. Saying Dr Dao's assault could have been avoided if he just complied does not transfer to him any culpability in his own assault, no more than a rape victim having had a drink or a mugging victim having a flashy watch does.

[Olympic Fan]

More news on the incident:

We know the injuries now .. Dr. Dao, a 69 year old man, suffered a broken nose, a concussion, damaged sinuses and lost two front teeth in the assault. He was in the hospital for two days. His erratic behavior when he returned to the plane may have had something to do with his concussion:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nce/100409492/

United will reimburse all the passengers on the flight ... The president of United, backtracking fast, apologized for blaming Dr. Dao for the incident, claiming it was a breakdown of the system and he announced that United will never again use police or security in that manner again:

http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2017/0...assengers.html

And, I know it's just political posturing, but New Jersey governor Chris Christie is screaming for the Trump administration to stop the practice of overbooking:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf..._fox_news.html

[mph]

And, I know it's just political posturing, but New Jersey governor Chris Christie is screaming for the Trump administration to stop the practice of overbooking:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf..._fox_news.html

Agree it's posturing. It also seems like it would unnecessarily make flights more expensive. I say let the airlines overbook all they want but don't allow them to involuntarily deny boarding to anyone with purchased ticket. Delta already uses the reverse auction method Jason mentioned in post 38. Alternatively, airlines could just keep increasing their compensation offers until they find an amount people are willing to accept.

[OldPhiKap]

And, I know it's just political posturing, but New Jersey governor Chris Christie is screaming for the Trump administration to stop the practice of overbooking:

http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf..._fox_news.html

It's not just political posturing. If United overbooks at Newark, you have to go over the GWB to LaGuardia or Kennedy. And traffic on the GWB is a beotch; bottle-necks right at the toll plaza.

[YmoBeThere]

Can't link from here, but just Google Chris Christie ally and United Airlines.

[OldPhiKap]

Can't link from here, but just Google Chris Christie ally and United Airlines.

Guess he doesn't need that flight to Hilton Head anymore.

[BD80]

More news on the incident:

We know the injuries now .. Dr. Dao, a 69 year old man, suffered a broken nose, a concussion, damaged sinuses and lost two front teeth in the assault. He was in the hospital for two days. His erratic behavior when he returned to the plane may have had something to do with his concussion:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...nce/100409492/

...

Apparently the "good" doctor also has a bit of a history, including a suspended and now restricted license to practice, stemming from prescription writing.

[Olympic Fan]

Apparently the "good" doctor also has a bit of a history, including a suspended and now restricted license to practice, stemming from prescription writing.

So once again, trash the victim (I especially like putting the good in quotes)

[Wander]

Apparently the "good" doctor also has a bit of a history, including a suspended and now restricted license to practice, stemming from prescription writing.

I'm trying really hard not to give a stereotypical response, but why does this matter AT ALL? Did United analyze the moral character of its passengers when selecting who they were going to kick off?

At least in most cases of trashing the victim (which are still bad), you can kinda see why it gets done; for example, there aren't eyewitnesses so people on one side want to question the honesty of the account. But that doesn't apply here with the dozens of eyewitnesses. In fact, as far as I can tell, none of the facts of the incident seem to even be in dispute.

[duke4ever19]

I'm trying really hard not to give a stereotypical response, but why does this matter AT ALL? Did United analyze the moral character of its passengers when selecting who they were going to kick off?

At least in most cases of trashing the victim (which are still bad), you can kinda see why it gets done; for example, there aren't eyewitnesses so people on one side want to question the honesty of the account. But that doesn't apply here with the dozens of eyewitnesses. In fact, as far as I can tell, none of the facts of the incident seem to even be in dispute.

I don't know, but if I was a doctor with that kind of past, I'd do whatever the authorities told me to do from now till the grave and stay the heck out of the papers.

When police come with the intention of taking you off a plane by force, you are just begging for a cellphone to be pointed in your direction and your past to rear its ugly head, even if unjustly.

The policy, I believe, is that the last person to board who paid the least, is the first to leave the plane, after volunteers. The airline can reimburse this person up to 4x the amount they originally paid, but by federal law, they cannot reimburse them any more than this amount. Idaknow why.

[weezie]

I'm trying really hard not to give a stereotypical response, but why does this matter AT ALL?

And, the answer is, it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Now, otoh, the identity of the gate agent does merit some notice. But, not a whisper seems to be forthcoming. Any guesses why? Seems very much a United secret.

[cato]

The policy, I believe, is that the last person to board who paid the least, is the first to leave the plane, after volunteers. The airline can reimburse this person up to 4x the amount they originally paid, but by federal law, they cannot reimburse them any more than this amount. Idaknow why.

Link?