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  1. #241
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Yeah, I sorta agree though are the Dothraki going to hang around King's Landing and lay siege at this point or -- having wrecked a portion of Lannister army-- will hey retreat back to Dragonstone?
    You know, with the Dothraki near Kings Landing, and the Unsullied at Casterly Rock, Dragonstone looks like a like an easy target for Euronization.

    I don't really think the show is going there, but it does seem wide open.

  2. #242
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by luburch View Post
    The next big character? Littlefinger would be my guess, but I doubt that happens before the second-to-last episode.
    My guess as well. He sure has been WAAAY off his game.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by alteran View Post
    You know, with the Dothraki near Kings Landing, and the Unsullied at Casterly Rock, Dragonstone looks like a like an easy target for Euronization.

    I don't really think the show is going there, but it does seem wide open.
    Three drangons should have no issue taking down euron's fleet. I think that should be her next move. Wouldn't take too long and she would basically lose no men. Espeicially if she attacks at night.

  4. #244
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by luburch View Post
    Either way, I think the show runners could have developed better methods for dealing with a giant flying animal. A giant crossbow is slow and inaccurate at best.
    I'm just curious-- what medieval weapon do you have in mind? I agree that a scorpion/ballista would be unwieldy, but until they invent ak-ak, I can't think of anything that delivers enough mass/energy to damage something of that scale-- particularly when you fact in immunity to fire.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by luburch View Post

    "Vermax flew too low, however, and crashed down into the sea, possibly wounded from a crossbow bolt to the eye"


    The Dragons were chained in the dragonpit and unable to really move, but you could count that as being killed by normal weapons. My apologies.

    Yes, I understand what the show has established as protocol for wounding the dragons. YMMV, but I don't think it is consistent with the books. Either way, I think the show runners could have developed better methods for dealing with a giant flying animal. A giant crossbow is slow and inaccurate at best.
    Accounts for Vermax's death differed; some witnesses claim he was dragged down by a grapnel that pierced and ripped a gash along his belly (and the text specifically says that the crossbow to the eye theory is unlikely). Here is the passage, for the record:

    Several differing tales were told afterward of how and why the dragon fell. Some claimed a crossbowman put an iron bolt through his eye, but this version seems suspiciously similar to the way Meraxes met her end, long ago in Dorne. Another account tells us that a sailor in the crow's nest of a Myrish galley cast a grapnel as Vermax was swooping through the fleet. One of its prongs found purchase between two scales, and was driven deep by the dragon's own considerable speed. The sailor had coiled his end of the chain about the mast, and the weight of the ship and the power of Vermax's wings tore a long jagged gash in the dragon's belly. The dragon's shriek of rage was heard as far off as Spicetown, even through the clangor of battle. His flight jerked to a violent end, Vermax went down smoking and screaming, clawing at the water. Survivors said he struggled to rise, only to crash headlong into a burning galley. Wood splintered, the mast came tumbling down, and the dragon, thrashing, became entangled in the rigging. When the ship heeled over and sank, Vermax sank with her.

    Whatever actually happened, the maester recounting the story did NOT say that the grapnel explanation was biologically impossible and that the only way it could have happened was a bolt to the eye, so it is implicitly accepted in the canon that a grapnel is at least capable of wounding a dragon. The dragons in the Dragonpit (other than the one that was crushed when the dome collapsed) were killed by spears, swords, axes and pitchforks. And again, as depicted on the show (S5E9) and in the books (ADWD), Drogon was injured by hand-thrown spears in the fighting pit in Mereen.

    What is clear throughout the books (and supported by previous depictions in the show) is that dragons have thick, hard scales that are difficult to pierce (but by no means impossible). Other dragons can claw or bite through the scales and are thus the best counter, but conventional weapons with enough force are capable of doing so as well. As for scorpions in particular, they were deployed in Mereen in ADWD to try to take down Drogon if he were to return to the city. They were deployed against Meleys in TPATQ at the battle of Rook's Rest. They are not a guaranteed way to take down a dragon, but using them is an accepted strategy in the canon and is thus generally consistent with the show's use of the weapon. The only real difference is that the show seemingly credits Qyburn with inventing the weapon and/or the strategy to use them against a dragon, whereas in the books they had been used against dragons long before Qyburn was born. I thought the show's use of a solitary scorpion was questionable, as it would rely on a fair amount of luck to hit an incoming dragon at all, as opposed to unleashing a volley from several scorpions. But to say it's a dumb weapon because it would just bounce off a dragon unless it hits it in the eye is not supported by the books and is directly contradicted by the show, both in S5E9 and in last week's episode.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by luvdahops View Post
    FWIW, there is some chatter on the internet about the scorpion spears perhaps being poison-tipped, given Qyburn's expertise in that regard (at least for human victims).
    True, but we don't know how a poison that kills humans affects dragons.

  7. #247
    A lot of fantasy fictions use scorpion bolts with anchored rope or chain or wire to take down dragons, or even some kind of net deployment. With multiple scorpions with bolts firmly anchored to a castle, you could probably take down a dragon. Added benefit that once dragon is hit by one, stationary (or mostly so) target is much easier to hit.

    Also, if GoT follows many others, Drogon's scales will have become even thicker and harder as he's matured, meaning he'd be tougher than he was in earlier battles.

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjornolf View Post
    A lot of fantasy fictions use scorpion bolts with anchored rope or chain or wire to take down dragons, or even some kind of net deployment. With multiple scorpions with bolts firmly anchored to a castle, you could probably take down a dragon. Added benefit that once dragon is hit by one, stationary (or mostly so) target is much easier to hit.

    Also, if GoT follows many others, Drogon's scales will have become even thicker and harder as he's matured, meaning he'd be tougher than he was in earlier battles.
    Unless he has a gap in his gem encrusted underbelly that Bard the Bowman can hit with a black arrow.

    Then, of course, the ensuing battle can be won with the last minute arrival of a were-bear and some eagles. Reinforcements! Oh, wait, we discussed this already...

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by davekay1971 View Post
    Unless he has a gap in his gem encrusted underbelly that Bard the Bowman can hit with a black arrow.

    Then, of course, the ensuing battle can be won with the last minute arrival of a were-bear and some eagles. Reinforcements! Oh, wait, we discussed this already...
    Okay, Okay, Mr. Tolkien. Speaking of him, my son just finished Shadow of Mordor on PS4, and is so juiced for Shadow of War. He's so bummed they delayed it to October so he can't get some time in before school starts.

    Yes, I'm bringing this back to topic. Speaking of fantasy video games, has anyone played any of the GoT games? Are they worth anything? I know they exist, but I've heard next to nothing about their content, which probably bodes ill for them.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by bjornolf View Post
    Okay, Okay, Mr. Tolkien. Speaking of him, my son just finished Shadow of Mordor on PS4, and is so juiced for Shadow of War. He's so bummed they delayed it to October so he can't get some time in before school starts.

    Yes, I'm bringing this back to topic. Speaking of fantasy video games, has anyone played any of the GoT games? Are they worth anything? I know they exist, but I've heard next to nothing about their content, which probably bodes ill for them.
    GoT games have been disappointing in my experience. I am a huge Skyrim fan, and can't help but think that Dragonrend and the right enchanted arrows should take Drogon down easily.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjornolf View Post
    Speaking of fantasy video games, has anyone played any of the GoT games? Are they worth anything? I know they exist, but I've heard next to nothing about their content, which probably bodes ill for them.
    I wouldn't say it's a must-buy, but the Telltale Games version is probably worth playing if you enjoy those types of game (or if you can just tolerate it but really like GoT). It takes place during Seasons 3 and 4 of the show but mainly follows its own self-contained story rather than rehashing events on the show. You do not play as any of the main GoT characters but interact with several of them (who are all voiced by the HBO series' actors) as you try to navigate House Forrester through the end of the War of the Five Kings. There are six episodes, about two hours each. It was free on Playstation Plus last month (and was included in part as a pay-what-you-want Telltale bundle on Steam that I think is over now), but it should be pretty cheap if you shop around for it elsewhere.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    GoT games have been disappointing in my experience. I am a huge Skyrim fan, and can't help but think that Dragonrend and the right enchanted arrows should take Drogon down easily.
    Fus Ro Dah!

    Skyrim, and Oblivion before it, have unfortunately been a heck of an act for other fantasy RPGs to follow. Shadow of Mordor felt more like an Assassin's Creed game than a free-world RPG to me, but I'm still excited to hear Shadow of War is coming relatively soon.

    Now, if only Elder Scrolls 6 will happen one of these days...

  13. #253
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    A nice Ars Technica review...

    In fact things have gone so wrong, so fast that I thought it might be time to convene the Ars Technica Board of Fictional Military Historic Analysis—with its charter members, Jon Nichols and Steve Skaggs, two special operations professionals now in the private sector—in order to dive in on the biggest blunders and curious command decisions from both sides.
    -jk

  14. #254
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    Can last week's episode be topped? We'll know in a few hours.

  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuse View Post
    Can last week's episode be topped? We'll know in a few hours.
    I love, love, love this show, but can't help but think it jumped the shark when Bron and Jaime somehow popped up from the water in full armor (and gold hand) a mile away from the destruction. C'mon writers, you can do better than that!
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  16. #256
    Yea, Gendry's back! Was waiting for that. Somehow I knew he and Jon would get along.

    And I've been telling everyone in my watching circle since the birth scene that Jon would turn out to be legit through a clamdestine Romeo and Juliet marriage thing. And now we have proof! Go Gilly!

  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjornolf View Post
    And I've been telling everyone in my watching circle since the birth scene that Jon would turn out to be legit through a clamdestine Romeo and Juliet marriage thing. And now we have proof! Go Gilly!
    Yes, that was the only logical explanation for dropping the audio when Lyanna was whispering his name to Ned. No use hiding the ball unless it was delaying another reveal, and there was no first name she could have used that would have any relevance to the story. But now we know it's [something] Targaryen.

  18. #258
    alteran is offline All-American, Honorable Mention
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I love, love, love this show, but can't help but think it jumped the shark when Bron and Jaime somehow popped up from the water in full armor (and gold hand) a mile away from the destruction. C'mon writers, you can do better than that!
    I knew the Targaryens couldn't burn, but I didn't know the Lannisters couldn't drown.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Rich View Post
    I love, love, love this show, but can't help but think it jumped the shark when Bron and Jaime somehow popped up from the water in full armor (and gold hand) a mile away from the destruction. C'mon writers, you can do better than that!
    Yeah. That really disappointed me. Did dany think they got burned up? Obviously not if Tyrion set up a meeting. So why wouldn't dany watch the lake for them to resurface so she could make them prisoners? Makes no sense.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by LasVegas View Post
    Yeah. That really disappointed me. Did dany think they got burned up? Obviously not if Tyrion set up a meeting. So why wouldn't dany watch the lake for them to resurface so she could make them prisoners? Makes no sense.
    What do you mean? It had to happen because the plot required it to happen. Isn't that reason enough?

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