UNC Athletics Scandal: Crowder Emerges

[Olympic Fan]

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that UNC is not required to announce or release their response to the NOA.

I KNOW the NCAA does not publically acknowledge receipt.

[Tom B.]

It appears to me that Ms. Crowder is going to encounter substantial difficulties reconciling the statements in her affidavit with the extensive documentary record, including particularly the e-mail messages that were sent to or received by her contemporaneously with the alleged misconduct. Given the fact that she has, for whatever reasons, allowed UNC to dictate whether and when she will address these charges, a skeptic might perceive this sudden willingness to "cooperate" as a desperate attempt by UNC to shore up its failed strategy of contesting the NCAA's jurisdiction and asserting purely procedural objections by pivoting back to disputing the merits of the alleged academic/athletic eligibility fraud scheme.

This.

Even if she's now contradicting what she told the Wainstein investigators, there's still a pretty impressive paper trail with her name all over it. So she can try to take back what she said to Wainstein, or claim that Wainstein got it wrong, or claim that she told Wainstein what she thought he wanted to hear because she was scared of being prosecuted -- but however much she tries to muddy her own prior statements, she can't just make all that documentary and e-mail evidence disappear.

[devildeac]

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that UNC is not required to announce or release their response to the NOA.

I KNOW the NCAA does not publically acknowledge receipt.

May well be true. I think other folks have postulated their response this time could be no response, therefore, delaying the timeline once again, to no one's surprise. Sadly, they're playing in another NCAAT.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

May well be true. I think other folks have postulated their response this time could be no response, therefore, delaying the timeline once again, to no one's surprise. Sadly, they're playing in another NCAAT.

They're probably very concerned about doing anything right now that might detract from primary mission of the university*... to raise ncaa basketball banners at any and all cost.

[BLPOG]

It appears to me that Ms. Crowder is going to encounter substantial difficulties reconciling the statements in her affidavit with the extensive documentary record, including particularly the e-mail messages that were sent to or received by her contemporaneously with the alleged misconduct. Given the fact that she has, for whatever reasons, allowed UNC to dictate whether and when she will address these charges, a skeptic might perceive this sudden willingness to "cooperate" as a desperate attempt by UNC to shore up its failed strategy of contesting the NCAA's jurisdiction and asserting purely procedural objections by pivoting back to disputing the merits of the alleged academic/athletic eligibility fraud scheme.

This.

Even if she's now contradicting what she told the Wainstein investigators, there's still a pretty impressive paper trail with her name all over it. So she can try to take back what she said to Wainstein, or claim that Wainstein got it wrong, or claim that she told Wainstein what she thought he wanted to hear because she was scared of being prosecuted -- but however much she tries to muddy her own prior statements, she can't just make all that documentary and e-mail evidence disappear.

As Tom B. put it, "This."

What I have to wonder is whether Crowder or her lawyer recognize how impressive that paper trail is. There are documents that directly contradict, in Crowder's own words, what is later claimed in the affidavit. Do they even realize that?

[Tom B.]

Thinking a little more about this...doesn't Crowder's affidavit actually complicate things for UNC? Think back to October of 2014, when UNC released the Wainstein report -- all the UNC brass at that press conference (Folt, Ross, Bubba, etc.) kept calling the scam the "Nyang'oro/Crowder scheme," or something like that. The party line wasn't that the fraud didn't happen -- in fact, they admitted that the fraud happened. They just argued that the fraud was the work of two rogue employees, and not a result of institutional failures or corruption.

Since then, UNC's strategy has evolved from "the fraud was the work of two rogue employees" to "the fraud was a purely academic issue and the NCAA lacks the jurisdiction or authority to do anything about it." But critically, they're still not denying -- and have never denied -- that the fraud occurred. They're just arguing that it's not the type of fraud the NCAA can punish them for.

So now along comes Debbie over two years after the fact and says, "Nope, no fraud here. None whatsoever. Everything that happened was kosher and, in fact, you should be thanking me for protecting these students from an institutional bureaucracy that didn't meet their needs." Um, what??!! How can UNC possibly adopt or endorse her account, when they were throwing her under the bus back in 2014/2015, and have never argued that the sham classes weren't improper? If nothing was wrong, why did UNC make a big public show of Wainstein's findings? Why did they fire nine people? Why did they institute all those "reforms" they love to toot their horn about? Why did they bend over backwards to assure SACS they'd weeded out the bad apples and put corrective measures into place?

I think UNC's in a spot here. If they go along with Crowder's eleventh-hour counter-narrative, the COI's going to have a lot of uncomfortable questions for them.

[Indoor66]

Thinking a little more about this...doesn't Crowder's affidavit actually complicate things for UNC? Think back to October of 2014, when UNC released the Wainstein report -- all the UNC brass at that press conference (Folt, Ross, Bubba, etc.) kept calling the scam the "Nyang'oro/Crowder scheme," or something like that. The party line wasn't that the fraud didn't happen -- in fact, they admitted that the fraud happened. They just argued that the fraud was the work of two rogue employees, and not a result of institutional failures or corruption.

Since then, UNC's strategy has evolved from "the fraud was the work of two rogue employees" to "the fraud was a purely academic issue and the NCAA lacks the jurisdiction or authority to do anything about it." But critically, they're still not denying -- and have never denied -- that the fraud occurred. They're just arguing that it's not the type of fraud the NCAA can punish them for.

So now along comes Debbie over two years after the fact and says, "Nope, no fraud here. None whatsoever. Everything that happened was kosher and, in fact, you should be thanking me for protecting these students from an institutional bureaucracy that didn't meet their needs." Um, what??!! How can UNC possibly adopt or endorse her account, when they were throwing her under the bus back in 2014/2015, and have never argued that the sham classes weren't improper? If nothing was wrong, why did UNC make a big public show of Wainstein's findings? Why did they fire nine people? Why did they institute all those "reforms" they love to toot their horn about? Why did they bend over backwards to assure SACS they'd weeded out the bad apples and put corrective measures into place?

I think UNC's in a spot here. If they go along with Crowder's eleventh-hour counter-narrative, the COI's going to have a lot of uncomfortable questions for them.

But, but, I want to eat it and keep it!😎

[oldnavy]

But, but, I want to eat it and keep it!��

Oh what a tangled web we weave...

[rasputin]

IMO, the current Crowder strategy will be an utter and complete failure. Even the blind can see through this ploy.

The Cheats have run out of moves and plays. They have no more time outs and Berry has five fouls. No one can shoot threes and they are down four possessions with about 68 seconds left. Time to bail out. Time to accept the inevitable.

Roy's teams never run out of time outs.

[OldPhiKap]

Roy's teams never run out of time outs.

or excuses.

[sagegrouse]

As Tom B. put it, "This."

What I have to wonder is whether Crowder or her lawyer recognize how impressive that paper trail is. There are documents that directly contradict, in Crowder's own words, what is later claimed in the affidavit. Do they even realize that?

I honestly believe that Debbie Crowder's response was primarily to "get right with the gods" -- mount some sort of defense so she is not seen as pleading guilty by her Chapel Hill neighbors, UNC fans, and former her colleagues at UNC, especially in athletics. She has retired, and there isn't a darned thing the NCAA can do to her, even though she was named as a culprit in the NOA and the ANOAs.

[Reilly]

Roy's teams never run out of time outs.

or excuses.

or gas ... at least the bus doesn't, as it keeps rolling over the people Roy throws under it ...

[Nugget]

I thought it sounded like an escort service trying to pass itself off as a therapy clinic.

Well-played.

[swood1000]

UNC may have missed the deadline but Crowder didn't. Her response to NOA-3 is here. She says that Allegation 3 (that she didn't cooperate) should be regarded as moot because she is "considering cooperating." She was also mentioned in allegation 1 and said that this allegation was false because "The fact that thousands of non-athletes took these courses is conclusive proof that these courses were "generally available" to non-athletes." Furthermore, the courses were academically rigorous and "Thus, unless the student violated the Honor Pledge, the course was an academically rigorous course requiring many hours of thoughtful work."

I guess UNC was not required to tell anyone if they received a short extension. Nor are they required to hop to it in preparing their reply for release.

[swood1000]

Crowder also does not know what the hubbub is all about, given that "Professors at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill have wide latitude to provide educational opportunities to students. Ms. Crowder knows of no university policies that prohibited Professor Nyang’oro from offering these courses, and she believes none existed." She seems somewhat indignant.

Looks like she has decided that she doesn't need to be on the same page as as Bubba Cunningham, who had said "No question. No question there was a breach of ethics."

[LastRowFan]

See: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...138618983.html (by Andrew Carter)

"The university has not yet responded to the NCAA Enforcement Staff’s third notice of allegations, a UNC spokeswoman wrote in an email on Wednesday, and now the university is “awaiting guidance from the committee on infractions on a new schedule.”

UNC’s 90-day deadline to respond to its latest notice of allegations (NOA) came and went on Monday without an update from the university about the status of its response. Joanne Peters, UNC’s media relations director, wrote on Wednesday that “in consultation” with the NCAA, UNC had not responded."

Dan Kane tweeted: "Looks like the NCAA wants to talk with Debby Crowder."

[sagegrouse]

See: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...138618983.html (by Andrew Carter)

"The university has not yet responded to the NCAA Enforcement Staff’s third notice of allegations, a UNC spokeswoman wrote in an email on Wednesday, and now the university is “awaiting guidance from the committee on infractions on a new schedule.”

UNC’s 90-day deadline to respond to its latest notice of allegations (NOA) came and went on Monday without an update from the university about the status of its response. Joanne Peters, UNC’s media relations director, wrote on Wednesday that “in consultation” with the NCAA, UNC had not responded."

Dan Kane tweeted: "Looks like the NCAA wants to talk with Debby Crowder."

Instead of "survive and advance," it is "delay and advance." You can probably tell when the verdict will come down by the strangely coincidental -- NOT -- announcements of retirement by Roy, Bubba and Carol Folt.

[martydoesntfoul]

Instead of "survive and advance," it is "delay and advance." You can probably tell when the verdict will come down by the strangely coincidental -- NOT -- announcements of retirement by Roy, Bubba and Carol Folt.

Perfect! In that way, the next regime can proudly claim none of this nonsense took place on their watch, continuing a proud UNC-Hazardous Waste tradition!

[gotoguy]

UNC may have missed the deadline but Crowder didn't. Her response to NOA-3 is here. She says that Allegation 3 (that she didn't cooperate) should be regarded as moot because she is "considering cooperating." She was also mentioned in allegation 1 and said that this allegation was false because "The fact that thousands of non-athletes took these courses is conclusive proof that these courses were "generally available" to non-athletes." Furthermore, the courses were academically rigorous and "Thus, unless the student violated the Honor Pledge, the course was an academically rigorous course requiring many hours of thoughtful work."

I guess UNC was not required to tell anyone if they received a short extension. Nor are they required to hop to it in preparing their reply for release.

Crowder's response was drafted by Elliott Abrams a UNC grad working in Joe Cheshire's Raleigh firm.

[gam7]

Here's a more national (and critical) take in Forbes from a professor at Ohio University whose name I recognize (David Ridpath) on the Crowder developments. Worth a read. Didn't see it posted anywhere.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bdavidr.../#2e9ddca4136b

A few quotes:

"Considering we are in the throws of March Madness, it is amazing to think that this scandal still in many ways overshadows what the men's basketball Tar Heels are doing on the basketball court or will do as a number #1 seed in the upcoming NCAA men's basketball tournament."

"In her affidavit and impassioned defense from her attorney, Raleigh-based Elliot Abrams, Crowder now disputes the academically dearth quality of courses offered by the AFAM and says the NCAA has falsely charged her with wrongdoing. In fact, if one takes Crowder's words as gospel-there is not a scandal at all in any way, shape or form despite a myriad of reports that at least acknowledge an academic scandal. I guess the NCAA and UNC should just pack up and forget about this whole episode because there is nothing to see here. Crowder claims in a direct challenge to the NCAA and her own university that she didn't create courses to provide special assistance to athletes and both athletes and non-athletes "were treated equal" and had access to all of the courses through academic counselors. This is a strange stance to take considering the institution has already admitted to numerous academic problems related to the AFAM affair albeit while still fighting the athletic aspects with the NCAA. UNC even has a detailed Carolina Commitment website that shows the dozens of changes made by the university in response to things the university says were primarily driven in part by Crowder herself. However according to Crowder and her legal team, that seems to unnecessarily and falsely blame her because everything she did was in accordance with existing university policy. Hmmmm."

"Crowder is not only challenging findings of the NCAA and UNC. The Southern Association of Schools and Colleges Commission on Colleges (SACS), which accredits UNC, found the classes to be in violation of several standards and called them fraudulent despite the assertions now made by Crowder and her attorney. In 2015, SACS placed UNC on probation for a year which is the most serious sanction short of pulling full accreditation. This ugly story has gone on way too long and it is time for a resolution. Crowder's late posturing does not change the facts nor will it likely help North Carolina in any way. I think think it will only hurt their cause as it is only likely delaying the inevitable. People like Debbie Crowder trying to cover their own tracks is not helping this case end any time soon and it is only making it worse for such a fine institution."