UNC Athletics Scandal: Crowder Emerges

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That kind of money is pocket change given the size of their endowment.

Ugh - suffering through this weekend is bad enough without learning how well-endowed UNC is

[CDu]

Ugh - suffering through this weekend is bad enough without learning how well-endowed UNC is

To be fair, that is the endowment of the entire UNC system. So all of the state's public schools.

[sagegrouse]

To be fair, that is the endowment of the entire UNC system. So all of the state's public schools.

While the UNC Chapel Hill endowment is overstated, the endowment funds for Duke are understated. Left out is The Duke Endowment, funded on Mr. Duke's death in 1925. It is today worth over three billion ($3.35 as of Dec. 2015). Traditionally about one-half of the income goes to Duke University. In fact, Duke University endowment funds and The Duke Endowment are managed as one fund, with (presumably) the results split equitably at the end of the year.

Counting one-half of The Duke Endowment gives Duke total endowment funds of about $8.5 billion ($9 billion at end 2015). This measure puts Duke around 12th among universities in the United States, all private schools except for the U. of Texas and Texas A&M systems. Leaving out The Duke Endowment places Duke at 15th.

[hudlow]

Here's the scenario...uNC wins a Natty and The NCAA takes a previous one away.

Current players aren't punished.

And the rest is swept under the rug.

Back to The Carolina Way.

[swood1000]

To be fair, that is the endowment of the entire UNC system. So all of the state's public schools.

This listing has the UNC Chapel Hill endowment at $2.89 billion in 2016, putting them at #32 nationally. Looks like almost all the endowments dropped in value from 2015 to 2016. The $18 million in legal fees would be 0.006 of UNC's endowment. Basically, a rounding error.

[LastRowFan]

A new News and Observer editorial:

The high cost of denial at UNC-CH

http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/...141090663.html

Short and sweet:

Sadly, this public institution, which ought to feel an obligation to report to the taxpayers, has acted more like a private business engaged in damage control. From the beginning, news organizations have had to fight for what is public information, and the university has tried to cast the story as a minor one exaggerated by the press. That’s always a suspicious tactic, and most of the time — including this time — it doesn’t work.

That the money for millions in legal fees doesn’t come directly from the pockets of taxpayers is little consolation — and no excuse.

[PackMan97]

To be fair, that is the endowment of the entire UNC system. So all of the state's public schools.

I'm pretty sure the $3 billion is just for UNC-Cheat.

I know is that State has crap for an endowment and we are the second most well endowed in the UNC system. Carolina far and away has the biggest endowment. I think State might be somewhere around $800 million last I heard.

[75Crazie]

As usual, PP finds it first, yet another story you will see nowhere on the mother ship's site: http://www.foxsports.com/college-bas...illiams-032817 .

[hallcity]

While the UNC Chapel Hill endowment is overstated, the endowment funds for Duke are understated. Left out is The Duke Endowment, funded on Mr. Duke's death in 1925. It is today worth over three billion ($3.35 as of Dec. 2015). Traditionally about one-half of the income goes to Duke University. In fact, Duke University endowment funds and The Duke Endowment are managed as one fund, with (presumably) the results split equitably at the end of the year.

Counting one-half of The Duke Endowment gives Duke total endowment funds of about $8.5 billion ($9 billion at end 2015). This measure puts Duke around 12th among universities in the United States, all private schools except for the U. of Texas and Texas A&M systems. Leaving out The Duke Endowment places Duke at 15th.

And that leaves out the value of Duke University Health Care Systems which already owns several hospitals and is rapidly gobbling up medical practices in NC. It's way more than an academic medical center. It's value certainly dwarfs the endowment and there's no doubt it's throwing off lots of profits. In theory it could be spun off for billions. Some of Duke's peers have similar health care investments and some don't. It's not clear how Duke's health care holdings compare to its peers who have made similar investments.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I didn't know exactly where to make note of this realization but thought it was ironically appropriate...

When I type the letters "U" "N" and "C" in consecutive order, my computer (well, at least Chrome) does not recognize it as legitimate. How appropriate.

(Hopefully this makes up for my indirect support of the cheats in the UNC-KY thread )

[crimsondevil]

This listing has the UNC Chapel Hill endowment at $2.89 billion in 2016, putting them at #32 nationally. Looks like almost all the endowments dropped in value from 2015 to 2016. The $18 million in legal fees would be 0.006 of UNC's endowment. Basically, a rounding error.

The annual spending for the endowment is normally between 4 and 7% (link), so the $18M is between 9% and 16% of the annual endowment spending, although the fees are spread over 6 years or so. But that's not necessarily a good measure - the total annual revenue for UNC-Chapel Hill is ~$2.5B (unless changed a lot since 2012-link), so the fees are a small proportion of that number. BUT a lot of that goes to pretty set costs (grants and contracts, salaries, etc), so it would require a much deeper dive to really figure out how much of a burden the fees are.

And that leaves out the value of Duke University Health Care Systems which already owns several hospitals and is rapidly gobbling up medical practices in NC. It's way more than an academic medical center. It's value certainly dwarfs the endowment and there's no doubt it's throwing off lots of profits. In theory it could be spun off for billions. Some of Duke's peers have similar health care investments and some don't. It's not clear how Duke's health care holdings compare to its peers who have made similar investments.

Maybe this is point you're trying to make, but the endowment is an investment fund, not the net worth of the institution. FWIW, the 2015/16 Duke Financial Statement (link) gives the total net assets, including DUHS, as $12B. The annual University Operating Revenues and Expenses are similar to UNC, about $2.6B.

[NSDukeFan]

What thread number is this for the scandal to top all scandals? Is it six or seven?
If you added all the dmnc* scandal threads together, would they match last year's election thread?

Inquiring minds want to know, with sporks available. (Actually, I know of only one inquiring mind that wants to know and I don't like it when other posters lump people together and say "here's how a bunch of us, or most of us, feel")

*diploma mill of North Carolina?

[CameronBlue]

What thread number is this for the scandal to top all scandals? Is it six or seven?
If you added all the dmnc* scandal threads together, would they match last year's election thread?

Inquiring minds want to know, with sporks available. (Actually, I know of only one inquiring mind that wants to know and I don't like it when other posters lump people together and say "here's how a bunch of us, or most of us, feel")

*diploma mill of North Carolina?

Don't apologize, it's vicariously cathartic.

[Ultrarunner]

News on the lawsuit by McAdoo and McBee - http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...141602394.html

[-jk]

News on the lawsuit by McAdoo and McBee - http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...141602394.html

I'll say it again - they're gonna skate...

-jk

[devil84]

What thread number is this for the scandal to top all scandals? Is it six or seven?
If you added all the dmnc* scandal threads together, would they match last year's election thread?

Inquiring minds want to know, with sporks available. (Actually, I know of only one inquiring mind that wants to know and I don't like it when other posters lump people together and say "here's how a bunch of us, or most of us, feel")

*diploma mill of North Carolina?

I searched for threads with "UNC" or "Carolina" and "Scandal" in the title (not case sensitive). I verified that all the thread titles were about the scandal, including the original football scandal. I don't have time to do others, like checking all "scandal" thread titles (there are a lot) or for synonyms or euphemisms for UNC. I came up with 40 threads and just shy of 7,500 posts.

The Presidential Election thread had 16,437 posts.

[sagegrouse]

I'll say it again - they're gonna skate...

-jk

OK, I hear you, but this is a totally different deal -- a lawsuit in federal court. The other is a disciplinary proceeding in a private organization where UNC has agreed to submit to the disciplinary proceedings and which has provided UNC hundreds of millions of dollars of direct benefits.

[Ultrarunner]

I'll say it again - they're gonna skate...

-jk

I'm hoping that this leaves the NCAA on the hook. Disliking the position UNC put them in, they drop a meteor on the Heap to prove that they do care about academics. This, I admit, is wishful thinking.

[Ultrarunner]

I searched for threads with "UNC" or "Carolina" and "Scandal" in the title (not case sensitive). I verified that all the thread titles were about the scandal, including the original football scandal. I don't have time to do others, like checking all "scandal" thread titles (there are a lot) or for synonyms or euphemisms for UNC. I came up with 40 threads and just shy of 7,500 posts.

The Presidential Election thread had 16,437 posts.

We're going to need to up our game, folks. On the other hand, with the progress we're making toward a resolution, this thread will pass the 2016 PE thread in 2032.

[PackMan97]

News on the lawsuit by McAdoo and McBee - http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/c...141602394.html

As I understood the law, this was basically a foregone conclusion. To the legal eagles on the forum, are there anything new with this ruling?