2017 NBA Draft Thread

[tbyers11]

I'm not that big on the NBA, but am noting that last night, one the virtual eve of the draft, the Cavs let GM Griffin go...he wanted more $, contract expiring, etc...now Jerry West is advising the hapless Clippers, trying to
lure LeBron...Cavs reported to be trying to get Butler from Chicago, but they don't seem very organized right now...

The 2nd in command Trent Redden, senior VP of basketball operations, will also leave the organization. This smells of an owner who is over-involved. Regardless, I agree the timing is definitely not the best.

[nmduke2001]

Great Tatum read:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...aign=editorial

[English]

The 2nd in command Trent Redden, senior VP of basketball operations, will also leave the organization. This smells of an owner who is over-involved. Regardless, I agree the timing is definitely not the best.

Lebron was NOT consulted or even forewarned of this move, which seems, umm, short-sighted. Lebron was an advocate of extending Griffin. Of course, this all happened at the same time that Griffin was out trying to drum up three-team trades to bring Jimmy Butler to Cleveland. Many top team execs of other franchises were legitimately unsure to whom to bring proposed deals when the Cavs were involved.

Of course, this is the same franchise that drafted Anthony Bennett No. 1 overall.

[camion]

Lebron was NOT consulted or even forewarned of this move, which seems, umm, short-sighted. Lebron was an advocate of extending Griffin. Of course, this all happened at the same time that Griffin was out trying to drum up three-team trades to bring Jimmy Butler to Cleveland. Many top team execs of other franchises were legitimately unsure to whom to bring proposed deals when the Cavs were involved.

Of course, this is the same franchise that drafted Anthony Bennett No. 1 overall.

I hope they have lots of bandages in Cleveland as it appears they have multiple self-inflicted gunshot wounds to their lower extremities.

[Troublemaker]

Lebron was NOT consulted or even forewarned of this move, which seems, umm, short-sighted. Lebron was an advocate of extending Griffin. Of course, this all happened at the same time that Griffin was out trying to drum up three-team trades to bring Jimmy Butler to Cleveland. Many top team execs of other franchises were legitimately unsure to whom to bring proposed deals when the Cavs were involved.

Of course, this is the same franchise that drafted Anthony Bennett No. 1 overall.

Griffin is also a well-regarded exec who won't be out of a job for long. I believe there are no current GM openings, but somebody will make room for him soon.

[yancem]

Yeah, that's basically what it comes down to. I DO think Fultz will be All-NBA in his career (i.e. a top-15 player), and that's why I hold the opinions I do about who won the trade. But again, Boston still has lots of assets and a bright future. I just think they should've drafted Fultz.


Incidentally, I absolutely would take John Wall over your suggested packages. Another thing happening here is I don't think I'm as high on Tatum and Jackson as others.

Fultz certainly has a lot of talent but I have trouble getting around how bad his team was and wondering if his stats are inflated because someone had to put up stats. Now I think coaching was a major part of the issue (good luck Mr. Porter) and the team was really young, neither of which can be blamed on Fultz. I'm just unsure about him. I'm also agree that I'm not quite sure about Jackson or Tatum. Jackson has all the physical tools to be Wiggins but he has a lot of work to do to fully develop his game. Tatum has all the skills you could want, as well as been a solid defensive player, (something Wiggins' rival Parker severely lacked) but he sometimes struggled against superior athletes so I wonder how he will fair against a Paul George or Kawhi Leonard type player. Luckily for him there are only a few of those type guys out there.

As for Fultz ending up being more John Wall, I think it is too early tell which end of the bargain would ultimately be better for the Celtics but I think that the chances that Jackson/Tatum and Duval/Sexton or Reddish/Langford end up being a better deal are good enough I would take the risk. Of course as mentioned elsewhere that assumes that Ainge plans on using the picks and not trade them for a current star. But that changes the debate completely.

[CDu]

Fultz certainly has a lot of talent but I have trouble getting around how bad his team was and wondering if his stats are inflated because someone had to put up stats. Now I think coaching was a major part of the issue (good luck Mr. Porter) and the team was really young, neither of which can be blamed on Fultz. I'm just unsure about him. I'm also agree that I'm not quite sure about Jackson or Tatum. Jackson has all the physical tools to be Wiggins but he has a lot of work to do to fully develop his game. Tatum has all the skills you could want, as well as been a solid defensive player, (something Wiggins' rival Parker severely lacked) but he sometimes struggled against superior athletes so I wonder how he will fair against a Paul George or Kawhi Leonard type player. Luckily for him there are only a few of those type guys out there.

As for Fultz ending up being more John Wall, I think it is too early tell which end of the bargain would ultimately be better for the Celtics but I think that the chances that Jackson/Tatum and Duval/Sexton or Reddish/Langford end up being a better deal are good enough I would take the risk. Of course as mentioned elsewhere that assumes that Ainge plans on using the picks and not trade them for a current star. But that changes the debate completely.

Well, it's hard to argue that his scoring was inflated by having bad teammates. He shot 47.6% from the field: 50% from 2pt range and 41.3% from 3pt range. That's REALLY impressive, especially considering the volume of shots he had to take and that he was the entire focus of the oppponents' defensive gameplan.

He was certainly turnover-prone, but his assist stats were weighted down by having bad teammates.

My concerns with Fultz would be on the defensive end, where he had a 111 DRtg last year.

[Troublemaker]

As for Fultz ending up being more John Wall, I think it is too early tell which end of the bargain would ultimately be better for the Celtics but I think that the chances that Jackson/Tatum and Duval/Sexton or Reddish/Langford end up being a better deal are good enough I would take the risk. Of course as mentioned elsewhere that assumes that Ainge plans on using the picks and not trade them for a current star. But that changes the debate completely.

Incidentally, I didn't say I'd take Fultz over Wall. I only said I would take Wall over your suggested packages. Overall summary -- high on Fultz, high on Wall, not that high on Tatum/Jackson, and we'll see about Duval/Sexton and Reddish/Langford in time.

[tbyers11]

Lebron was NOT consulted or even forewarned of this move, which seems, umm, short-sighted. Lebron was an advocate of extending Griffin. Of course, this all happened at the same time that Griffin was out trying to drum up three-team trades to bring Jimmy Butler to Cleveland. Many top team execs of other franchises were legitimately unsure to whom to bring proposed deals when the Cavs were involved.

Of course, this is the same franchise that drafted Anthony Bennett No. 1 overall.

I know what I'm doing. My organization has never made head-scratching draft picks or burned bridges with our homegrown superstar. Trust me.

Sincerely,
Dan Gilbert

[flyingdutchdevil]

I know what I'm doing. My organization has never made head-scratching draft picks or burned bridges with our homegrown superstar. Trust me.

Sincerely,
Dan Gilbert

Anthony Bennett can easily become the next Lebron James. Patience, my friend, patience.

[yancem]

Incidentally, I didn't say I'd take Fultz over Wall. I only said I would take Wall over your suggested packages. Overall summary -- high on Fultz, high on Wall, not that high on Tatum/Jackson, and we'll see about Duval/Sexton and Reddish/Langford in time.

Well, if you would be willing to take Wall over Fultz, that would imply that you feel that Fultz isn't won't be better than Wall. This would seem to be counter to your comparison to Harden. I would think that Wall would have to be the considered the floor for Fultz in order to think the Celtics made a mistake in trading the pick. Either that you you really don't think Jackson/Tatum will be very good. Nothing against Wall, he is a very good player, but he isn't the type of player that changes a franchises fortunes and if this trade is going to look bad down the road, I think Fultz needs to be that kind of player. Otherwise it's kind of meh. Maybe not a good trade but not really a bad one either, which I think makes the possible rewards definitely worth the risk.

[superdave]

What would this leave the Celtics with? How would this make them a better team? Would this make them better than the Pelicans were last year?

Reports are they want Hayward and Butler. I assume they would love to keep the core of their team intact and try to trade as many picks as possible to get these two. Obviously having those two guys and fillers will be a tough team in the East. Let's not forget the Celtics were the number one seed this year.

Celtics would be able to start - conceivably - Avery Bradley, Gordon Hayward, SF pick at #3 (Jackson/Tatum), Horford, Anthony Davis.

They would bring Jaylen Brown, Olynyk, and Rozier off the bench. Assuming they gave up next year's Lakers pick, they still have Brooklyn's pick next year to add another big time player - likely a guard. I'd take that lineup.

The other big issue here is what to do with Isiah Thomas. He's 5'7'', just turned 28 and is only making $6m per. I like him a lot more either as a microwave off the bench or $6m than I do on a max contract for the next 5 years. The concern is his body wont hold up and he's a defensive liability, and the final years of that max deal would be a huge millstone.

Sell high would seem like good advice here.

[English]

Scooting away from the blockbuster Philly-Boston trade briefly, Phil Jackson has decided that he'd like to share the NBA Draft spotlight with his Eastern Conference colleagues...he's made it clear that Kristaps is up for grabs at the right price. This has sparked quite the maelstrom around the League and among those following it. All the NYK fans I know are VERY nervous about this.

Apparently Phil is enamored of Josh Jackson, and recently had dinner with Lauri Markkanen, whom he thinks would be an adequate replacement for KP.

[Troublemaker]

Well, if you would be willing to take Wall over Fultz, that would imply that you feel that Fultz isn't won't be better than Wall. This would seem to be counter to your comparison to Harden. I would think that Wall would have to be the considered the floor for Fultz in order to think the Celtics made a mistake in trading the pick. Either that you you really don't think Jackson/Tatum will be very good. Nothing against Wall, he is a very good player, but he isn't the type of player that changes a franchises fortunes and if this trade is going to look bad down the road, I think Fultz needs to be that kind of player. Otherwise it's kind of meh. Maybe not a good trade but not really a bad one either, which I think makes the possible rewards definitely worth the risk.

Yeah, I think you're underrating Wall, who's a great two-way PG and also a former #1 pick.

This is getting into the nitty gritty more than I wanted to, but essentially, I think Fultz will be the #1 scorer on a contending 76ers team in a few years. I think Harden's more of a top-10 player than the top-5 player you were calling him upthread. (Lebron, Durant, Curry, Kawhi, ADavis, for starters, if you're asking). I think Wall isn't far behind Harden. I think Harden and Wall are great players, and Fultz will become a great player. I think Boston traded away 1 great for 2 "good"s, i.e. I think Tatum/Jackson can only become good players at best and have bust potential, and I think the other draft pick most likely won't become a top-3 pick. You don't trade great for two goods. (But, ultimately, as we've both said, it comes down to the evaluations. Where I could be wrong is that I could be overrating Fultz or underrating Tatum/Jackson. Certainly Boston does not make this trade if they believed Fultz was in a different tier).

[CDu]

Celtics would be able to start - conceivably - Avery Bradley, Gordon Hayward, SF pick at #3 (Jackson/Tatum), Horford, Anthony Davis.

They would bring Jaylen Brown, Olynyk, and Rozier off the bench. Assuming they gave up next year's Lakers pick, they still have Brooklyn's pick next year to add another big time player - likely a guard. I'd take that lineup.

The other big issue here is what to do with Isiah Thomas. He's 5'7'', just turned 28 and is only making $6m per. I like him a lot more either as a microwave off the bench or $6m than I do on a max contract for the next 5 years. The concern is his body wont hold up and he's a defensive liability, and the final years of that max deal would be a huge millstone.

Sell high would seem like good advice here.

In that scenario, the Celtics would have to renounce their rights to Olynyk (he's currently a restricted free agent with a ~$8 million cap hold) to have the cap space to sign Hayward. They would also have to sign only veteran's minimum guys because they'd have to waive their mid-level exceptions as well to clear the cap holds.

That would be a really good starting 5 to be sure, but you'd have no PG, few shooters, and no bench.

[Billy Dat]

Scooting away from the blockbuster Philly-Boston trade briefly, Phil Jackson has decided that he'd like to share the NBA Draft spotlight with his Eastern Conference colleagues...he's made it clear that Kristaps is up for grabs at the right price. This has sparked quite the maelstrom around the League and among those following it. All the NYK fans I know are VERY nervous about this.

Apparently Phil is enamored of Josh Jackson, and recently had dinner with Lauri Markkanen, whom he thinks would be an adequate replacement for KP.

https://theringer.com/phil-jackson-n...y-ff11179012f3

While current tweets indicate that the asking price is so high to be laughable, that is beside the point. Also, as someone tweeted, the price may be high, but Phil may also be high. If some enterprising Knicks fan declared that there would be a fan march from Times Square to MSG in protest of the Knicks management, I would get on a train immediately and add my voice to the chorus. I have been among the most patient but this KP stuff is pushing me to the breaking point.

[JasonEvans]

Of course, this is the same franchise that drafted Anthony Bennett No. 1 overall.

Look, I know in hindsight that Bennett is a bust to end all busts (I have detailed this in the past), but at the time of the draft, there was no obvious choice for the top pick and it is not like folks were warning that Bennett was a terrible choice.

In the DBR Mock Draft in 2013, we had a lot of conversation about who should go #1. TheAlaskanBear had the pick and he took Otto Porter. Folks questioned that pick a bit, but it is not like anyone said there was a clear and obvious pick that should be made instead of Porter. The consensus seems to have been that the #1 pick should be Nerlens Noel -- which would have turned out ok, but not great. The case for Porter was not a bad one and folks also talked about Ben McLemore and Victor Oladipo at the top of the draft.

Needless to say, none of us brought up the two guys who turned out to be far and away the best two players in the draft, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Rudy Gobert. Somehow, we let the Freak last until the 2nd pick of the 2nd round (he went #15 in the real draft). No one really commented at all when BobGreen picked him. We just did not know what to think of the Greek Freak. Meanwhile, TheAlaskanBear should major credit for taking Gobert at #19 (he went #27 in the real draft). If the 2013 draft had ended with Cleveland taking Gobert at #19 (instead of Sergy Karasev) then it would have more than made up for the embarrassment of picking Bennett #1. Maybe TheAlaskanBear should be the Cavs next GM.

Anyway, it is also worth pointing out that though Bennett did not go until pick #8 in our Mock Draft, many of us felt he was a fine prospect.

If this scenario were to play out on draft night, it would be the third year in a row that a talented player at a position of need falls into the Pistons lap. There is talk that Anthony Bennett is the most talented player in the draft, but he might be a tweener between the 3/4, not quite tall enough to compete on the boards at the 4, not quite quick enough to defend the 3. With Andre Drummond (and Greg Monroe) erasing defensive mistakes behind him, I think Bennett would fit well at the three for the Pistons. He can post up other 3s, or hit the jumper if they sag.

I can't speak for the GMs of the top 5 picks, but at #6 I definitely felt a little guilty in helping the slide of Bennett. I think you have to focus on fit when "best available player" is so malleable in a draft crop like this. Bennett would make a good addition to most frontcourts, but with the Pelicans it felt like subtraction by addition in terms of team philosophy. I don't know how he would fare as a Piston, but I can't disagree with BD80's logic above.

the talent, production, and potential of Anthony Bennett out of UNLV is just so great. Listen, Bennett is not without risk. He has an injury history from high school and is coming off a torn rotator cuff which caused him to miss all the draft workouts. We don't care about injuries. This is Detroit. Bennett is a 6'7" (maybe 6'8"?) 240 pound round-shouldered man-child who was being touted during the season as a potential overall #1 pick, as it was assumed he would come out after his freshman season, as he has. He has a real inside-outside game. He's not just a banger in there. He can step outside and shoot it, and if you play him too closely, he will go by you with the dribble. In that respect, he may be even more versatile than the guy he is so often compared to, that being the Grand MaMA, Larry Johnson. He is athletic, and he has long arms and big hands, but he can also dominate you with his brute strength. Bennett is a bit of a tweener, though, as was Johnson. He's a little short to play power forward, which is his most natural position, but like I said, he is blessed with very long arms. He might struggle a bit to cover 3's who can penetrate, though, despite his excellent athleticism. He's going to have to work to improve at the defensive end so that he can play both types of guys. But the beauty is: they're going to have to play him too, and they're not going to be happy about that. What we envision is a solid three-man frontcourt rotation. Drummond and Monroe will still start, but Bennett can obviously sub for Monroe at the 4, and when Drummond needs a blow, Bennett and Monroe will be a very quick and agile frontcourt tandem. Once in awhile we could also play the three of them together too. Piston fans see Mark Aguirre or Adrian Dantley in the low post. While Bennett's derrierre may not be of the epic proportions of those two dudes, we think he can pound opponents in the post like they did, and get a bit more comfortable in seeking out contact like they did; those qualities, in combination with his reliable outside J, will get the joint jumping in Motown again.

I don't quote any of that to mock the above posters, merely to point out that many folks thought Bennett was a very nice prospect when he was drafted. As I often say, the NBA draft is a crapshoot. Cleveland just shot really, really poorly with that pick.

-Jason "all that said, I think firing Griffin was a strange move and I did not think he was doing a poor job in Cleveland at all" Evans

[yancem]

Look, I know in hindsight that Bennett is a bust to end all busts (I have detailed this in the past), but at the time of the draft, there was no obvious choice for the top pick and it is not like folks were warning that Bennett was a terrible choice.

In the DBR Mock Draft in 2013, we had a lot of conversation about who should go #1. TheAlaskanBear had the pick and he took Otto Porter. Folks questioned that pick a bit, but it is not like anyone said there was a clear and obvious pick that should be made instead of Porter. The consensus seems to have been that the #1 pick should be Nerlens Noel -- which would have turned out ok, but not great. The case for Porter was not a bad one and folks also talked about Ben McLemore and Victor Oladipo at the top of the draft.

Needless to say, none of us brought up the two guys who turned out to be far and away the best two players in the draft, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Rudy Gobert. Somehow, we let the Freak last until the 2nd pick of the 2nd round (he went #15 in the real draft). No one really commented at all when BobGreen picked him. We just did not know what to think of the Greek Freak. Meanwhile, TheAlaskanBear should major credit for taking Gobert at #19 (he went #27 in the real draft). If the 2013 draft had ended with Cleveland taking Gobert at #19 (instead of Sergy Karasev) then it would have more than made up for the embarrassment of picking Bennett #1. Maybe TheAlaskanBear should be the Cavs next GM.

Anyway, it is also worth pointing out that though Bennett did not go until pick #8 in our Mock Draft, many of us felt he was a fine prospect.

I don't quote any of that to mock the above posters, merely to point out that many folks thought Bennett was a very nice prospect when he was drafted. As I often say, the NBA draft is a crapshoot. Cleveland just shot really, really poorly with that pick.

-Jason "all that said, I think firing Griffin was a strange move and I did not think he was doing a poor job in Cleveland at all" Evans

Talk about a draft where a team should have traded down in the draft. Not a very good draft year at all. Really only the Antetokounmpo and Gobert have turned out to be very high level players. I mean Oladipo at 3 and McCollum at 10 have been solid but picks Porter at 2 and Zeller, Len, Noel & McLemore at 4-7 have been close to if not busts. Caldwell-Pope at 8 is decent and Burke at 9 started off ok but looks to be sliding. It doesn't get a whole lot better after 10 either although expectations being lower means that some of the players are playing reasonably against draft position.

Can you imagine Boston fans' excitement if they had traded the number 1 pick that year for the 3 and a future (probable) lottery pick!!!!

[JasonEvans]

Talk about a draft where a team should have traded down in the draft. Not a very good draft year at all. Really only the Antetokounmpo and Gobert have turned out to be very high level players. I mean Oladipo at 3 and McCollum at 10 have been solid but picks Porter at 2 and Zeller, Len, Noel & McLemore at 4-7 have been close to if not busts. Caldwell-Pope at 8 is decent and Burke at 9 started off ok but looks to be sliding. It doesn't get a whole lot better after 10 either although expectations being lower means that some of the players are playing reasonably against draft position.

Can you imagine Boston fans' excitement if they had traded the number 1 pick that year for the 3 and a future (probable) lottery pick!!!!

So, Porter took his time but has turned into a very nice player for Washington. No, he is not an all-star, but he is not all that far off and he is just 23 years old.

You failed to mention MP2. If we were to redraft the 2013 Draft, Mason could go in the top half of the lottery. I think the redraft probably goes--
1. Freak
2. Gobert
3. McCollum
4. Oladipo
5. Schroder
6. Porter
7. Plumlee
8. Adams
9. G. Deng
10. Caldwell-Pope

-Jason "or something like that... after the top 5, you can come up with just about any order for the next 5 guys" Evans

[gam7]

The green room invitee list of 20 prospects is now public. Tatum and Kennard are included. Giles and Jackson are not.