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  1. #421

    Comments on some posts

    I meant and thought it was clear that I am happy that the 76ers are finally building a team rather than just acquiring assets. I understand that the Celtics have both a team and assets.

    The Sam Bowie/Michael Jordan analogy in my opinion might apply to the Celtics and not the 76ers. All or almost all of the experts seem to think that Fultz is the best player in the draft and the76ers traded to get him. You might argue that the Celtics like Portland of old did not take the best available player because they perceived they did not need him. But the Celtics did not just pass on Fultz, they traded for more players so its not really the same.

    I share the concern of others about Embiid's health and the health of the 76ers key players.

    I also think that the team that gets Jason Tatum will be very happy with their draft.

    The draft is often a gamble. What do Hasheem Thabeet, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio and Jonny Flynn have in common? They, along with Blake Griffin and James Harden, were drafted ahead of Stephen Curry.

    SoCal

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by SoCalDukeFan View Post
    I meant and thought it was clear that I am happy that the 76ers are finally building a team rather than just acquiring assets. I understand that the Celtics have both a team and assets.

    The Sam Bowie/Michael Jordan analogy in my opinion might apply to the Celtics and not the 76ers. All or almost all of the experts seem to think that Fultz is the best player in the draft and the76ers traded to get him. You might argue that the Celtics like Portland of old did not take the best available player because they perceived they did not need him. But the Celtics did not just pass on Fultz, they traded for more players so its not really the same.

    I share the concern of others about Embiid's health and the health of the 76ers key players.

    I also think that the team that gets Jason Tatum will be very happy with their draft.

    The draft is often a gamble. What do Hasheem Thabeet, Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio and Jonny Flynn have in common? They, along with Blake Griffin and James Harden, were drafted ahead of Stephen Curry.

    SoCal
    Curry is not strong enough to compete in the NBA and certainly lacks explosiveness. A nice guard but come on. He will be a good Euro player. Whatever happened to that guy? My guess if he made it in the NBA he would not be that memorable - I doubt his coach would remember he was on their team.

  3. #423
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Curry is not strong enough to compete in the NBA and certainly lacks explosiveness. A nice guard but come on. He will be a good Euro player. Whatever happened to that guy? My guess if he made it in the NBA he would not be that memorable - I doubt his coach would remember he was on their team.
    Pretty sure his stock got inflated because of a nice NCAAT run. It was a nice story with a small school advancing further than expected, but good college players don't necessarily become pros if they don't have good length.
    “Those two kids, they’re champions,” Krzyzewski said of his senior leaders. “They’re trying to teach the other kids how to become that, and it’s a long road to become that.”

  4. #424
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by NSDukeFan View Post
    Pretty sure his stock got inflated because of a nice NCAAT run. It was a nice story with a small school advancing further than expected, but good college players don't necessarily become pros if they don't have good length.
    Agreed.

    He might carve out a roster spot as someone who comes off the bench for instant offense, but I don't see him ever getting starter's minutes for a contender.

  5. #425
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    In the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade (90-95% of the time?). Only 5 guys can be on the floor at a time, having a higher talent average is not as important as having the best talent.

    That said, I can see how Fultz would not be the best fit in Boston. To be truly great, he needs an Alpha+ mentality, and a rookie with an Alpha personality might not fit on a veteran team.

    In Philly, there are still a few years of maturation in front of the talented team, which will give Fultz the chance to grow as the Alpha on the team
    I agree 100%. This is the huge difference between football and basketball. In football, acquiring more picks to get more players is incredibly valuable, because there are a lot of positions to fill. With five guys on the floor at once in basketball, having a bunch of pretty good players is not nearly as important as having a few great players. Over the last few years the Celtics have been gathering pretty good players but not getting superstars (largely no fault of their own). So at some point continuing to do two for one trades to get more players becomes a big waste of time unless they can start reversing the process and packaging a few of those players for a superstar.

    My assumption is that they decided that Fultz is not a true superstar so they are essentially getting more assets to delay their big move some more. Time will tell.

  6. #426
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    That's just it, though, isn't it? Health is everything. You don't honestly believe Embiid is going to stay consistently healthy, do you? I think there is a 0% chance he ever plays more than 60 games in a season, and probably well below that number more often than not. I would have stayed far away from drafting this guy. Every game he plays you're just waiting for the next injury. That's how I felt watching Harry play at Duke.
    No doubt, Embiid's long-term health is the big question mark for Philly. I think he'll always be injury-prone but hopefully he doesn't have to always suffer season-ending injuries. For example, I still think Kyrie is injury-prone, but the past two years, he hasn't suffered a season-ender and thus was able to shine at times in the Finals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehky View Post
    I've watched a lot of Fultz. I refuse to act as if he's a can't miss sure fire prospect just because I read that he was supposed to be good. I don't see any difference between him and the other top guys. I don't understand how anyone could get Jayson Tatum and be pissed about it.
    Is anyone forcing you to act as if? Is he in the room with you, pointing a gun? What's the signal, fellow DBR posters, for when we're posting under duress?

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    No doubt, Embiid's long-term health is the big question mark for Philly. I think he'll always be injury-prone but hopefully he doesn't have to always suffer season-ending injuries. For example, I still think Kyrie is injury-prone, but the past two years, he hasn't suffered a season-ender and thus was able to shine at times in the Finals.



    Is anyone forcing you to act as if? Is he in the room with you, pointing a gun? What's the signal, fellow DBR posters, for when we're posting under duress?
    There you go again, making trouble...
    Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

    -Roy "Ole Huck" Williams

  8. #428
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    No doubt, Embiid's long-term health is the big question mark for Philly. I think he'll always be injury-prone but hopefully he doesn't have to always suffer season-ending injuries. For example, I still think Kyrie is injury-prone, but the past two years, he hasn't suffered a season-ender and thus was able to shine at times in the Finals.



    Is anyone forcing you to act as if? Is he in the room with you, pointing a gun? What's the signal, fellow DBR posters, for when we're posting under duress?
    Our dirty little secret is out.

  9. #429
    In all the news about Philly this weekend it's striking, though not surprising, how Okafor isn't mentioned at all. His NBA future is starting to look kinda perilous.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Natty_B View Post
    In all the news about Philly this weekend it's striking, though not surprising, how Okafor isn't mentioned at all. His NBA future is starting to look kinda perilous.
    Philly is talking.

    https://thesixersense.com/2017/06/18...kafor-defense/
    Last edited by JasonEvans; 06-19-2017 at 01:09 PM.

  11. #431
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by dukelifer View Post
    Curry is not strong enough to compete in the NBA and certainly lacks explosiveness. A nice guard but come on. He will be a good Euro player. Whatever happened to that guy? My guess if he made it in the NBA he would not be that memorable - I doubt his coach would remember he was on their team.
    Zing!

  12. #432
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oregon

    GOAT #1 for #3

    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    In the NBA, the team that gets the best player wins the trade (90-95% of the time?). Only 5 guys can be on the floor at a time, having a higher talent average is not as important as having the best talent.
    This trade, and this comment, brings back my ugly memory of the GOAT of all #1 for #3 trades. #3 Penny Hardaway and three future #1 picks for Chris Webber. Didn't turn out so great for the Warriors, IIRC.

  13. #433
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    I see absolutely no reason to criticize Philly's trade from a value standpoint. I agree that Fultz isn't a Lebron-type generational talent. But I think he's going to be Harden, and if he's Harden, Philly wins this trade under most scenarios; Boston would have to get lucky with that additional pick winning a top-3 spot in the lottery to allow them to draft the type of talent that can complete the "two small rocks > 1 big rock" scenario.
    But that is a big if. Harden just had the third most triple doubles in a season and is only second to the Big O and Westbrook who are the only players to average a triple double for an entire season. He is also a top 5 player in the league. I'm not sure that Fultz is overly likely to reach that level. He'll be good and probably even be an all-star but that next step to all-nba is a pretty big step. What if he ends up being more Damian Lillard or Joh Wall? They are both all-star caliber pg's but neither has led their team deep into the playoffs. Would you take him then over Tatum/Jackson and Collin Sexton/Duval or Cameron Reddish/Romeo Langford? It's interesting to speculate and it comes down to how good will Fultz actually be and how high will the second pick actually be. Obviously we won't know either for a couple of years but I personally don't think that Fultz is likely to separate himself enough from Tatum/Jackson that the Celtics regret the trade. Of course I didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night so what do I know?

  14. #434
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    I agree 100%. This is the huge difference between football and basketball. In football, acquiring more picks to get more players is incredibly valuable, because there are a lot of positions to fill. With five guys on the floor at once in basketball, having a bunch of pretty good players is not nearly as important as having a few great players. Over the last few years the Celtics have been gathering pretty good players but not getting superstars (largely no fault of their own). So at some point continuing to do two for one trades to get more players becomes a big waste of time unless they can start reversing the process and packaging a few of those players for a superstar.

    My assumption is that they decided that Fultz is not a true superstar so they are essentially getting more assets to delay their big move some more. Time will tell.
    True but the problem is that there are very few real superstars. At any given time there are really only about 5-8 players (and that may be high) that can single handedly carry a team and history is shown that a team rarely wins the championship without one of these players. The Celtics are pretty much carrying out the Sam Hinkie plan except they are trying to stay competitive while doing so by trading for picks rather than tanking for them. If they can keep getting lottery picks while still making the playoffs, bully for them. It is important to also know that not every superstar is a top 3 pick as the jokes bout Curry up thread nicely point out. It may take a little more luck but superstars can come late in the lottery.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by Natty_B View Post
    In all the news about Philly this weekend it's striking, though not surprising, how Okafor isn't mentioned at all. His NBA future is starting to look kinda perilous.
    Part of the reason Boston traded down was that it actually frees up cap space for them going from #1 to #3, so they can offer Gordon Hayward an extra ~$1.5M a year. For that reason, they wouldn't have wanted to take back salary in the form of Jah. That said, Jah definitely has a big season coming up. Gotta stay healthy, gotta show improvement.

    Incidentally, anonymous sources say the 76ers will be very interested in pursuing Redick. He would serve as a veteran presence for such a young team. Hopefully having JJ and Gerald around as veteran Duke guys would help Jahlil grow, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by yancem View Post
    It's interesting to speculate and it comes down to how good will Fultz actually be and how high will the second pick actually be. Obviously we won't know either for a couple of years but I personally don't think that Fultz is likely to separate himself enough from Tatum/Jackson that the Celtics regret the trade. Of course I didn't even sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night so what do I know?
    Yeah, that's basically what it comes down to. I DO think Fultz will be All-NBA in his career (i.e. a top-15 player), and that's why I hold the opinions I do about who won the trade. But again, Boston still has lots of assets and a bright future. I just think they should've drafted Fultz.

    Quote Originally Posted by yancem View Post
    What if he ends up being more Damian Lillard or Joh Wall? They are both all-star caliber pg's but neither has led their team deep into the playoffs. Would you take him then over Tatum/Jackson and Collin Sexton/Duval or Cameron Reddish/Romeo Langford
    Incidentally, I absolutely would take John Wall over your suggested packages. Another thing happening here is I don't think I'm as high on Tatum and Jackson as others.

  16. #436
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    It is worth pointing out that Boston cannot possibly use their giant stash of #1 draft picks. They have 5 first round picks in the next 3 drafts, or something like that. There's just no way they plan to keep all those picks, filling their roster with guys that young. While it is wise to point out how this deal frees up a little extra cap space for the Celtics, the deal also nets them extra draft assets they can use to do what they really want to do... trade for a star.

    The draft is a crapshoot. Sure, some guys are sure things, but most years no one knows whether Jonny Flynn (taken #6 in 2009 draft) is going to be better than Steph Curry (taken #7 in 2009). Ainge wants to use his crapshoot picks to get a stud.

    My bet is that he is targeting Anthony Davis, who has to be frustrated at the Pelicans inability to surround him with decent teammates. Davis is arguably the top big man in basketball today and his team didn't even win 35 games this past season.

    Would the Pelicans do Davis for Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, and a couple of the Celtics desirable picks? I think that deal would work under the cap (Boston might have to throw in a bit more salary filler, like Jerebko or something).

    -Jason "Davis is signed for an average of about $26 mil a year for the next 4 seasons... in a year or two, I think that will look like a huge bargain!" Evans
    I don't know what you are doing right now, but if you aren't listening to the DBR Podcast, you're doing it wrong.

  17. #437
    Fun video of Luke's Pro Day workout from Draftexpress: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/...-workout-6045/
    Cameo by Amile (shooting jumpers!)

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    It is worth pointing out that Boston cannot possibly use their giant stash of #1 draft picks. They have 5 first round picks in the next 3 drafts, or something like that. There's just no way they plan to keep all those picks, filling their roster with guys that young. While it is wise to point out how this deal frees up a little extra cap space for the Celtics, the deal also nets them extra draft assets they can use to do what they really want to do... trade for a star.

    The draft is a crapshoot. Sure, some guys are sure things, but most years no one knows whether Jonny Flynn (taken #6 in 2009 draft) is going to be better than Steph Curry (taken #7 in 2009). Ainge wants to use his crapshoot picks to get a stud.

    My bet is that he is targeting Anthony Davis, who has to be frustrated at the Pelicans inability to surround him with decent teammates. Davis is arguably the top big man in basketball today and his team didn't even win 35 games this past season.

    Would the Pelicans do Davis for Isaiah Thomas, Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, and a couple of the Celtics desirable picks? I think that deal would work under the cap (Boston might have to throw in a bit more salary filler, like Jerebko or something).

    -Jason "Davis is signed for an average of about $26 mil a year for the next 4 seasons... in a year or two, I think that will look like a huge bargain!" Evans
    What would this leave the Celtics with? How would this make them a better team? Would this make them better than the Pelicans were last year?

    Reports are they want Hayward and Butler. I assume they would love to keep the core of their team intact and try to trade as many picks as possible to get these two. Obviously having those two guys and fillers will be a tough team in the East. Let's not forget the Celtics were the number one seed this year.

  19. #439
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    North Carolina
    Charlotte Hornets rumor: Team ‘locked in on’ Luke Kennard or Donovan Mitchell

    http://swarmandsting.com/2017/06/16/charlotte-hornets-rumors-team-engaged-multiple-trade/
    President of the Marshall Plumlee fan club!

  20. #440
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    I'm not that big on the NBA, but am noting that last night, one the virtual eve of the draft, the Cavs let GM Griffin go...he wanted more $, contract expiring, etc...now Jerry West is advising the hapless Clippers, trying to
    lure LeBron...Cavs reported to be trying to get Butler from Chicago, but they don't seem very organized right now...

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