MBB: Duke vs Wake Forest (2/18, 1pm ET) Pre-game and in-game thread

[OldPhiKap]

Duke opens as a 10-point favorite.

[BandAlum83]

Duke opens as a 10-point favorite.

Together with other news on this board, it seems the Duke bandwagon is filling up and getting ready to leave the station!

[jv001]

Like you, I see this as a competitive match although we should gain an advantage by being the home team. Tatum should be a major mismatch offensively, so he should be especially aware of picking up avoidable fouls. We have seen what Kennard can do against this team when asked to so that leaves the question of who our 3rd major scorer will be. Is Grayson able to play at anything like his efficiency when fully healthy or will we need to rely more on Frank? Also can Amile and Harry hold their own? The other question to me is how physical will the game become? The refs can have a say in how this game proceeds as well.

I'll say that Amile needs to not make any bonehead fouls because we need him to guard Collins. However we do have Harry ready to step in and I'm hoping he wants payback for the way the Deacon fans treated him in Winston Salem. I think it will be a close game and I'm hoping to see Duke hit the 3 ball regularly. GoDuke!

[DU82]

OT, but what type of reception do Duke fans receive at games vs Wake in Winston-Salem?

Have seen games vs all ACC schools except for Lville and ND in CIS and everyone but Maryland (good riddance) and NC State fans were fine. No problems with anyone other than Maryland fans @ the ACC Tournament. Minimal problems in the Dean Dome, UVa, and Syracuse. Hope to see the Devils on the road in every ACC arena before K retires.

For basketball, I've been to the entire league through FSU, sans SC, going back to '82. I usually say that for a visiting fan, the "safest" arena, by far, is Cameron. After that comes Chapel Hill. I've had problems at State and Maryland, although the State issues have gone away (it's bad when the ushers refuse to provide security for official visiting team family/friends, but that was back in Reynolds.) I've also had issues at Wake with fans, similar to what we all saw on the screen (or in person) last month. I've been in the student section (that's where they gave us tickets) at Clemson, no problem. At UVa, other than one trip to JPJ before Bennett, were to UHall. No loss there, the round shape caused everybody to be so far from the court (and the team seats were on the floor, without risers, so impossible to see anything.) I wish I had gotten to GT when they were good, there was no atmosphere when I finally got there. Went to Leon County (FSU) before renovations, again a really so-so visit (we won, so it wasn't a bad trip!)

For football, I've been everywhere except BC, FSU and Miami, including SC and MD. Haven't really had many problems (went to most of the original 8 while in DUMB, so different than as an older fan these past few years.) Notre Dame and Clemson stand out for being very polite after we upset them. I only went to MAryland once, before the "rivalry" got bitter, so it was benign. (Not in conference, but if you get a chance to go to Army this coming season, or NAvy next time we play them in Annapolis, try to go. Great experiences there.)

[wavedukefan70s]

After the crud that went on at thier place.i hope we throttle them to tears.i want them to have a very unpleasant experience.

[Furniture]

OT, but what type of reception do Duke fans receive at games vs Wake in Winston-Salem?
.

Perfectly fine. I have been there twice and had zero issues. It's amazing really for someone from the U.K. Brought up watching soccer. Going to an opposing teams ground is very dangerous. The segregation inside the stadium is ok but after the game if you take the wrong direction a smack in the mouth is the minimum you can expect from the local hooligans!!

[Bob Green]

who's gonna have the hot hand?

I'll go with CDu's answer...

We will have a big advantage with Tatum against whomever tries to guard him. Neither Mitoglou nor Arians stands a chance. They'll probably try to hide one of the two on Jones and pray that someone can stay in front of Tatum. Hopefully Tatum brings his "A" game, because this is a serious mismatch.

Tatum has pressed things at times this season which resulted in bad decisions but when he plays within himself he is a darn tough match up. Coach K usually finds a way to exploit a tough match up.

Matt Jones' defense on Crawford will be a critical ingredient to success as well. Jones will be the unsung hero once again today.

[Indoor66]

I'll go with CDu's answer...



Tatum has pressed things at times this season which resulted in bad decisions but when he plays within himself he is a darn tough match up. Coach K usually finds a way to exploit a tough match up.

Matt Jones' defense on Crawford will be a critical ingredient to success as well. Jones will be the unsung hero once again today.

If he plays like last game, I'll sing for him.

[75Crazie]

Interesting quote from today's front-page article, reviewing Wake:

The other problem is less obvious but still critical: Manning is really only confident in seven of his players. ... This probably has a lot to do with why Wake tends to burn out in the second half of intense games -- they could use one or two more players to give the main guys a better blow.

Is game-time development of bench depth only a priority for teams other than Duke?

[lotusland]

Well, noone is perfcet.

Precicely.

[-jk]

DBR Chat is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

[OldPhiKap]

DBR Chat is open!

If it gets a bit slow, refresh the page. If you're on a mobile device, you'll need to select "Blue" at the bottom.

As always - please follow the DBR Posting Guidelines.

Let's Go Duke!

-jk

Wow, opening the chat early for a 1:00 game. Must've been a lot of posters tenting to get in the chat room last night.

I hope we squash these guys. Hard. For 40 full minutes.

[brevity]

The only thing to discuss is why the Viewing Options for Wake Forest Game (including free stream) thread created by awhom111 isn't the pregame thread.

Duke is going to do Duke things. Wake is going to do Wake things. There's your keys to the game. But come Saturday, dozens of DBR procrastinators will frantically ask for help when they realize none of their ESPN channels are broadcasting the game. By then, if no thread merging occurs, the Viewing Options thread will be hidden on Page 3 of the Main Forum, and this thread will offer no help (aside from this post). They'll ask in this thread and, denied instant gratification, go to chat and ask there. Then it's up to me, or some other helpful schmuck, to look up the link to free streaming and post it there. I would do this not because I am nice, or fair, but because I really don't want to type out the play by play.

Brevity, knowing DBR better than DBR itself since 2008.

Well, I was wrong about at least one thing. There was enough discussion to keep the Viewing Options thread on the first page.

[-jk]

Wow, opening the chat early for a 1:00 game. Must've been a lot of posters tenting to get in the chat room last night.

I hope we squash these guys. Hard. For 40 full minutes.

Just a weird morning and I didn't want to forget.

-jk

[wilson]

Is game-time development of bench depth only a priority for teams other than Duke?

Why should it be a priority for Duke simply because it's a priority for Wake?
This conversation comes up repeatedly here, and the fact is that, no, K does not appear to place a high premium on establishing a lot of depth (at least if you measure depth in terms of number of players averaging significant minutes).
K's national championship teams at Duke have featured:

• 1991--9 players averaging double digit minutes (admittedly a high number of such players)
• 1992--7 players averaging double digit minutes
• 2001--7 players averaging double digit minutes (this includes Casey Sanders, who likely would not have crossed this threshold had Boozer not been injured late in the season)
• 2010--8 players averaging double digit minutes
• 2015--7 players averaging double digit minutes

This year, we have 7 players averaging double digit minutes (and that discounts Chase Jeter, who actually averages double digit minutes in the games in which he appears, but also has 10 DNP-CD's).
We also had a recent conversation about how depth doesn't just mean X number of players playing X number of minutes per game; rather it's about having as many players as possible READY to play.
The fact of the matter is that a) yes, K is content to play with a pretty short bench, especially late in the season, and b) K's teams have demonstrated in the past that low MPG doesn't necessarily mean that the team isn't "deep" in the sense of having a large number of players ready to contribute. Furthermore, the rampant injuries to this year's team have clearly hindered the development of "depth" as defined strictly by MPG.
I don't understand why this continues to be a point of complaint for some fans.

[BandAlum83]

Why should it be a priority for Duke simply because it's a priority for Wake?
This conversation comes up repeatedly here, and the fact is that, no, K does not appear to place a high premium on establishing a lot of depth (at least if you measure depth in terms of number of players averaging significant minutes).
K's national championship teams at Duke have featured:

• 1991--9 players averaging double digit minutes (admittedly a high number of such players)
• 1992--7 players averaging double digit minutes
• 2001--7 players averaging double digit minutes (this includes Casey Sanders, who likely would not have crossed this threshold had Boozer not been injured late in the season)
• 2010--8 players averaging double digit minutes
• 2015--7 players averaging double digit minutes

This year, we have 7 players averaging double digit minutes (and that discounts Chase Jeter, who actually averages double digit minutes in the games in which he appears, but also has 10 DNP-CD's).
We also had a recent conversation about how depth doesn't just mean X number of players playing X number of minutes per game; rather it's about having as many players as possible READY to play.
The fact of the matter is that a) yes, K is content to play with a pretty short bench, especially late in the season, and b) K's teams have demonstrated in the past that low MPG doesn't necessarily mean that the team isn't "deep" in the sense of having a large number of players ready to contribute. Furthermore, the rampant injuries to this year's team have clearly hindered the development of "depth" as defined strictly by MPG.
I don't understand why this continues to be a point of complaint for some fans.

I think the point was that if K only goes 7 deep game time, why would we assume Wake would have to go deeper?

Do our kids have something special that keeps them from getting gassed (or burn out -as the OP wrote), while Danny Manning's kids need more bench assistance?

Why would it be a key to the game, when K clearly doesn't think it's a key for our side?

But that was just my interpretation of the post.

[FadedTackyShirt]

For basketball, I've been to the entire league through FSU, sans SC, going back to '82. I usually say that for a visiting fan, the "safest" arena, by far, is Cameron. After that comes Chapel Hill. I've had problems at State and Maryland, although the State issues have gone away (it's bad when the ushers refuse to provide security for official visiting team family/friends, but that was back in Reynolds.) I've also had issues at Wake with fans, similar to what we all saw on the screen (or in person) last month. I've been in the student section (that's where they gave us tickets) at Clemson, no problem. At UVa, other than one trip to JPJ before Bennett, were to UHall. No loss there, the round shape caused everybody to be so far from the court (and the team seats were on the floor, without risers, so impossible to see anything.) I wish I had gotten to GT when they were good, there was no atmosphere when I finally got there. Went to Leon County (FSU) before renovations, again a really so-so visit (we won, so it wasn't a bad trip!)

For football, I've been everywhere except BC, FSU and Miami, including SC and MD. Haven't really had many problems (went to most of the original 8 while in DUMB, so different than as an older fan these past few years.) Notre Dame and Clemson stand out for being very polite after we upset them. I only went to MAryland once, before the "rivalry" got bitter, so it was benign. (Not in conference, but if you get a chance to go to Army this coming season, or NAvy next time we play them in Annapolis, try to go. Great experiences there.)

Thanks to you and Furniture for your responses. Trying to goad my Duke friends into running the ACC table in hoops and football. The ACC microbrewery pub crawls from the other board are an additional enticing carrot.

Would love to see a football game @ West Point. Both Navy and Air Force home football games are special.

Euro soccer is wild. Nearly got caught in the middle of a post-game riot in Dresden the last year of the East German Bundesliga. Highly amused by surly five year olds shaking people down for parking in Liverpool.

[budwom]

Why should it be a priority for Duke simply because it's a priority for Wake?
This conversation comes up repeatedly here, and the fact is that, no, K does not appear to place a high premium on establishing a lot of depth (at least if you measure depth in terms of number of players averaging significant minutes).
K's national championship teams at Duke have featured:

• 1991--9 players averaging double digit minutes (admittedly a high number of such players)
• 1992--7 players averaging double digit minutes
• 2001--7 players averaging double digit minutes (this includes Casey Sanders, who likely would not have crossed this threshold had Boozer not been injured late in the season)
• 2010--8 players averaging double digit minutes
• 2015--7 players averaging double digit minutes

This year, we have 7 players averaging double digit minutes (and that discounts Chase Jeter, who actually averages double digit minutes in the games in which he appears, but also has 10 DNP-CD's).
We also had a recent conversation about how depth doesn't just mean X number of players playing X number of minutes per game; rather it's about having as many players as possible READY to play.
The fact of the matter is that a) yes, K is content to play with a pretty short bench, especially late in the season, and b) K's teams have demonstrated in the past that low MPG doesn't necessarily mean that the team isn't "deep" in the sense of having a large number of players ready to contribute. Furthermore, the rampant injuries to this year's team have clearly hindered the development of "depth" as defined strictly by MPG.
I don't understand why this continues to be a point of complaint for some fans.

I applaud the distinction you make about Jeter not averaging double figure minutes when you count the games for which he was available but didn't play. His official 14.9 minutes per game is grossly misleading.

[gam7]

Why should it be a priority for Duke simply because it's a priority for Wake?
This conversation comes up repeatedly here, and the fact is that, no, K does not appear to place a high premium on establishing a lot of depth (at least if you measure depth in terms of number of players averaging significant minutes).
K's national championship teams at Duke have featured:

• 1991--9 players averaging double digit minutes (admittedly a high number of such players)
• 1992--7 players averaging double digit minutes
• 2001--7 players averaging double digit minutes (this includes Casey Sanders, who likely would not have crossed this threshold had Boozer not been injured late in the season)
• 2010--8 players averaging double digit minutes
• 2015--7 players averaging double digit minutes

This year, we have 7 players averaging double digit minutes (and that discounts Chase Jeter, who actually averages double digit minutes in the games in which he appears, but also has 10 DNP-CD's).
We also had a recent conversation about how depth doesn't just mean X number of players playing X number of minutes per game; rather it's about having as many players as possible READY to play.
The fact of the matter is that a) yes, K is content to play with a pretty short bench, especially late in the season, and b) K's teams have demonstrated in the past that low MPG doesn't necessarily mean that the team isn't "deep" in the sense of having a large number of players ready to contribute. Furthermore, the rampant injuries to this year's team have clearly hindered the development of "depth" as defined strictly by MPG.
I don't understand why this continues to be a point of complaint for some fans.

I applaud the distinction you make about Jeter not averaging double figure minutes when you count the games for which he was available but didn't play. His official 14.9 minutes per game is grossly misleading.

The 2015 number doesn't tell the whole story. Marshall Plumlee played in every game and averaged 9.6 minutes per game. Also, Grayson averaged 9.2 minutes per game, but considering that he and Sulaimon were kind of mutually exclusive, I'd say it's right to not count both of them.

Also, if you are going to distinguish Jeter in 2017, it is worth noting that seldom used players in each of 2001 (Andre Sweet), 2010 (Olek Czyz) and 2015 (Semi Ojeleye) averaged double digit minutes (though they appear to have been appropriately omitted from your numbers).

[wilson]

The 2015 number doesn't tell the whole story. Marshall Plumlee played in every game and averaged 9.6 minutes per game. Also, Grayson averaged 9.2 minutes per game, but considering that he and Sulaimon were kind of mutually exclusive, I'd say it's right to not count both of them.

Also, if you are going to distinguish Jeter in 2017, it is worth noting that seldom used players in each of 2001 (Andre Sweet), 2010 (Olek Czyz) and 2015 (Semi Ojeleye) averaged double digit minutes (though they appear to have been appropriately omitted from your numbers).

Good points throughout this post. And yes, I did omit Sweet, Czyz, and Ojeleye, which I should have mentioned; I just figured everyone could agree that their abortive Duke careers could be comfortably left out of this discussion (each of them sat out the ACC portions of the seasons in question in accordance with transfer rules, so they played very few meaningful minutes in a Duke uniform).