Les Miles fired at LSU

[Olympic Fan]

I don't think LSU is that much better of a job right now. Houston is currently ranked 6th (AP) and 7th (Coaches). They knocked off a then top 5 team, Oklahoma, on the road. He led Houston to a Peach bowl victory. Houston is the best team in a state rich with college football talent. They could possibly be on the way to the Big 12. He is in the perfect situation.

LSU is a fine job, but if Herman left he would be stepping into the SEC. The schedule is more difficult each week, his recruiting pitch has to change, and the pressure rises considerably.

If I'm Herman, I'm only leaving for Ohio State, Alabama, or Texas. Maybe that changes in 1-2 years, but he's got the college football world in the palm of his hands currently.

There is a big difference between which is the better team right now (clearly Houston) and the best program (clearly LSU).

Maybe that changes if Houston gets invited to join the Big 8/12/10 in the near future and makes the massive investment necessary to upgrade to a true Power 5 status. But as of now -- with a small stadium, a small fan base (certainly compared to LSU) and a non-power 5 status, Houston's program is not in a class with LSU.

[OldPhiKap]

"Careful what you wish for": as if UGA shouldn't or can't wish for an SEC Football Title more than once every 10 years(last title in 2005), or a National Championship? Mark Richt was being paid $4M/year at UGA. He had plenty of opportunities at UGA, to be sure. Richt was good at winning his out-of-conference cupcake games and then usually abusing Vandy/Kentucky/USC and (until two years ago)a down Tennessee program for his 9-10 wins year, but he didn't far so well against Top 25 teams. So far this year Richt has won 3 games against FAMU/FAU/AppState. Let's see how he does against more solid competition soon although his team avoids playing UL and Clemson in the '16 regular season.



"Don't let your britches get too big": double entendre reference to UGA's Silver Britches? So maybe you can tell after four games that Kirby Smart is not going to be an outstanding coach. I think a reasoned approach would be to give him the benefit of the doubt as in several seasons with his own personnel.



BTW, Grayson Allen is a HUGE UGA football fan. I doubt he's ready to give up on Coach Smart or UGA now or in the near future.

Last 16 years of SEC champs:

2000 Florida
2001 LSU
2002 Georgia (Richt)
2003 LSU
2004 Auburn
2005 Georgia (Richt)
2006 Florida
2007 LSU
2008 Florida
2009 Alabama
2010 Auburn
2011 LSU
2012 Alabama
2013 Auburn
2014 Alabama
2015 Alabama

Looks like the West has just been better than the East for most of that stretch. Florida won three times; Georgia twice; and West teams the other eleven out of thirteen. And considering that Alabama has won four of the ten since Georgia did last, perhaps that is a big reason why no one seems to win the championship very often.

Mark Richt's results at Georgia (overall record, conference record, conference standing, bowl result, final national ranking):


2001 Georgia 8–4 5–3 T–3rd (Eastern) L Music City 25 22
2002 Georgia 13–1 7–1 1st (Eastern) W Sugar† 3 3
2003 Georgia 11–3 6–2 T–1st (Eastern) W Capital One 6 7
2004 Georgia 10–2 6–2 2nd (Eastern) W Outback 6 7
2005 Georgia 10–3 6–2 1st (Eastern) L Sugar† 10 10
2006 Georgia 9–4 4–4 T–3rd (Eastern) W Chick-fil-A 23
2007 Georgia 11–2 6–2 T–1st (Eastern) W Sugar† 3 2
2008 Georgia 10–3 6–2 2nd (Eastern) W Capital One 10 13
2009 Georgia 8–5 4–4 T–2nd (Eastern) W Independence
2010 Georgia 6–7 3–5 T–3rd (Eastern) L Liberty
2011 Georgia 10–4 7–1 1st (Eastern) L Outback 18 18
2012 Georgia 12–2 7–1 T–1st (Eastern) W Capital One 4 5
2013 Georgia 8–5 5–3 3rd (Eastern) L Gator
2014 Georgia 10–3 6–2 2nd (Eastern) W Belk 9 9
2015 Georgia 9–3 5–3 T–2nd (Eastern) W TaxSlayer* 25* (RICHT DID NOT COACH BOWL GAME)
Georgia: 145–51 83–37

9-5 in bowls; two SEC championships; first or second in the East all but four seasons. 74% win rate overall and 69% in conference. Finished ranked all but three years. Averaged 9.67 wins per season. Vince Dooley, by contrast, had an 8-10-2 bowl record IIRC. Ah, but he had Hershel. . . . Spurrier was 6-5 in bowls at Florida, 11-10 overall when adding in Duke and South Carolina.

Kirby Smart may well end up being a very good coach. He may not. But Georgia ain't Alabama. No one is. If the test is that you win a national championship game or get canned, well -- that's a tough one to uphold.

[OldPhiKap]

^^ Should be: West has won 11 of the last 16 (not 13).

And don't get me wrong: I like the Dawgs. I think firing Richt was a huge mistake though. I realize that is the distinct minority position in Dawg Nation, although I believe the overwhelming majority everywhere else in America. I wish Kirby well, especially if he only wins 9 games a year (or less) for his first few seasons.

[Troublemaker]

LSU is a fine job, but if Herman left he would be stepping into the SEC. The schedule is more difficult each week, his recruiting pitch has to change, and the pressure rises considerably.

If I'm Herman, I'm only leaving for Ohio State, Alabama, or Texas. Maybe that changes in 1-2 years, but he's got the college football world in the palm of his hands currently.

For whatever reason, that sort of perspective is more prevalent in college basketball where you have guys like Mark Few and Gregg Marshall who will stick around for awhile and maybe even become lifers at a midmajor. In college football, it seems to me coaches will move to the high-pressure big conferences first chance they get. I doubt Herman will end up being an exception.

They could possibly be on the way to the Big 12.

The move to the Big 12 would HAVE to happen for Houston to even be in the conversation with LSU, imo.

[Spanarkel]

^^ Should be: West has won 11 of the last 16 (not 13).

And don't get me wrong: I like the Dawgs. I think firing Richt was a huge mistake though. I realize that is the distinct minority position in Dawg Nation, although I believe the overwhelming majority everywhere else in America. I wish Kirby well, especially if he only wins 9 games a year (or less) for his first few seasons.

Since 1996(arbitrarily chosen), 9 FBS titles have been won by Southern schools not named Alabama. I think that the UGA AD/administration/boosters felt that UGA was not recently in serious competition for an SEC title, much less a national title(, although in many years it's been the same school). UGA under Mark Richt was not consistently competitive in games against top-notch opponents in the past several years. Yes, winning a national title is a lofty goal, for sure, but it didn't elude Phil Fulmer/Les Miles/Gene Chizik/Bobby Bowden and Jimbo Fisher. I don't think these lofty expectations were kept a secret from Coach Richt while he was being rewarded handsomely. College football coaching is a high risk/high reward occupation these days.

[OldPhiKap]

Since 1996(arbitrarily chosen), 9 FBS titles have been won by Southern schools not named Alabama. I think that the UGA AD/administration/boosters felt that UGA was not recently in serious competition for an SEC title, much less a national title(, although in many years it's been the same school). UGA under Mark Richt was not consistently competitive in games against top-notch opponents in the past several years. Yes, winning a national title is a lofty goal, for sure, but it didn't elude Phil Fulmer/Les Miles/Gene Chizik/Bobby Bowden and Jimbo Fisher. I don't think these lofty expectations were kept a secret from Coach Richt while he was being rewarded handsomely. College football coaching is a high risk/high reward occupation these days.

I think Phil Fulmer is a good example of the problem I'm talking about though. Since Phil left in 2008:


2015 9 - 4
2014 7 - 6
2013 5 - 7
2012 5 - 7
2011 5 - 7
2010 6 - 7
2009 7 - 6

[Dev11]

http://lsu.247sports.com/Article/LSU...Miles-47773078

Now the Tiger nation can watch Alleva in action!

Joe Alleva hired David Cutcliffe. I'm willing to bet many pitchforks that he won't find somebody who lasts longer at LSU than Cut will at Duke.

Miles had his flaws, but LSU was really successful during his tenure. I don't remember a lot of college football prior to his arrival in Baton Rouge, and in that time he's been one of the most prominent coaches in the country, behind maybe only Saban and Meyer and equal to or ahead of guys like Fisher, Kelly, and Harbaugh. Is Tom Herman the next top college football coach? More importantly, it is worth firing your most successful coach in most fans' lifetimes to find out, with the uncertainty of whether he'll even take the job?

[Bob Green]

Joe Alleva hired David Cutcliffe.

Not really. There was a committee who selected David Cutcliffe. AD Joe Alleva favored Karl Dorrell.

[Dev11]

Not really. There was a committee who selected David Cutcliffe. AD Joe Alleva favored Karl Dorrell.

Well, I mean it in the same way Joe fired Miles.

[Bob Green]

Well, I mean it in the same way Joe fired Miles.

Yep, I agree.

[Olympic Fan]

Not really. There was a committee who selected David Cutcliffe. AD Joe Alleva favored Karl Dorrell.

Exactly ... you want to credit anybody for Cut, give the credit to Leo Hart and CG Newsome, who blocked Alleva from hiring Dorrell.

Allen had lost his autonomy for football hires after (1) firing Fred Goldsmith in 1998 (after a 4-7 season); (2) hiring Carl Franks (who won five games the next four years); (3) firing Franks at midseason in 2003); (4) replacing him with interim Ted Roof (actually not a bad replacement ... he went 2-3 to finish); (5) giving Roof the permanent job after his interim half-season (he won four games in his four full seasons) ... after that litany of bad judgment, the trustees (specifically Bob Steele, I believe) took the hiring power out of Alleva's hands.

Hart and Newsome pushed for Navy coach Paul Johnson and when he took the Georgia Tech job instead, they pushed for Cutcliffe and got him.

PS Although that hasn't stopped Alleva for claiming credit for the hire

[diablesseblu]

Exactly ... you want to credit anybody for Cut, give the credit to Leo Hart and CG Newsome, who blocked Alleva from hiring Dorrell.

Allen had lost his autonomy for football hires after (1) firing Fred Goldsmith in 1998 (after a 4-7 season); (2) hiring Carl Franks (who won five games the next four years); (3) firing Franks at midseason in 2003); (4) replacing him with interim Ted Roof (actually not a bad replacement ... he went 2-3 to finish); (5) giving Roof the permanent job after his interim half-season (he won four games in his four full seasons) ... after that litany of bad judgment, the trustees (specifically Bob Steele, I believe) took the hiring power out of Alleva's hands.

Hart and Newsome pushed for Navy coach Paul Johnson and when he took the Georgia Tech job instead, they pushed for Cutcliffe and got him.

PS Although that hasn't stopped Alleva for claiming credit for the hire

I saw a recent video of Alleva speaking about the Cut hire. You're correct, OF. He took full credit for the hire. It was nauseating to watch.

[OldPhiKap]

Every time I talk to a disgruntled GT alum, I count my lucky stars that Paul Johnson chose Atlanta over Durham.

We could not have found a better fit for Duke than David Cutcliffe.

[chris13]

Les Miles is the winningest coach LSU has ever had. LSU assumes that the new coach will have all of the strengths of Miles, but fix the weakness Miles had around the offense. As someone pointed out with the Phil Fulmer example above, it ain't necessarily so. I think the chances are good that LSU regresses under their next coach. Plus as long as Nick Saban is at Alabama, the path to a playoff is difficult. In the four team playoff format, I think it's unlikely two entrants will come from the same conference, much less the same division.

[arnie]

I saw a recent video of Alleva speaking about the Cut hire. You're correct, OF. He took full credit for the hire. It was nauseating to watch.

Nauseating - fits the admiral to a T. Does he really think nobody at Duke has a memory? Of course he didn't "really" fire Miles, just did what he was told.

[Pghdukie]

Is Lane Kiffen being considered ? Or anybody else that has a tough time dealing with Saban.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Well, I mean it in the same way Joe fired Miles.

Not really. Alleva didn't want David Cutcliffe. The committee had to "work around" him to get the job done.

[sagegrouse]

Les Miles is the winningest coach LSU has ever had. LSU assumes that the new coach will have all of the strengths of Miles, but fix the weakness Miles had around the offense. As someone pointed out with the Phil Fulmer example above, it ain't necessarily so. I think the chances are good that LSU regresses under their next coach. Plus as long as Nick Saban is at Alabama, the path to a playoff is difficult. In the four team playoff format, I think it's unlikely two entrants will come from the same conference, much less the same division.

Football fans in Louisiana are not just avid -- they are a little crazy. Maybe it's the Cajun and Creole influence; maybe it's because Louisiana is so close to a much wealthier Texas. In the case of Les Miles and LSU football, it seems to manifest itself in irrationality.

The problem with "irrational" actions with respect to Les Miles is that is affects who is willing to accept the head coaching position. Surely, the candidates would not necessarily believe they would be treated fairly on the basis of the record. In fact, they would probably believe they would need to be a miracle worker to succeed in the eyes of the fans and donors.

[Tom B.]

Dang.

Scott Van Pelt just straight-up called Joe Alleva "gutless" -- SVP's exact word -- for refusing to answer questions about the Miles firing at a press conference earlier today. (Well, now I guess it's yesterday.)

[BigWayne]

Miles had his flaws, but LSU was really successful during his tenure. I don't remember a lot of college football prior to his arrival in Baton Rouge

Yep, good thing they got Miles when they did. That coach they had before apparently wasn't very memorable.