Blue Ribbon Preseason Top 25

[TexHawk]

I never really knew exactly what to think of Ellis when watching him play.

So I defer to the unbiased Kenpom. Ellis was sixth on the list for KPOY last year. Other guys on the list include Brice Johnson, Buddy Hield, Malcolm Brogdon, Georges Niang and so on. With a similar impact to those players I expect Kansas will miss Ellis a great deal this coming year.

I guess I would ask for data to contrast the fact that in Bill Self's tenure in Lawrence, he has replaced a high-level big man in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2012, and 2014 with 2nd year players: Darrell Arthur, Cole Aldrich, Marcus/Markieff Morris, Thomas Robinson, Jeff Withey, and Perry Ellis. 4 lottery picks, another 1st rounder, and a 2nd rounder still playing in the league. It is certainly possible that Carlton Bragg falls on his face, and each situation is unique, but at some point I would acknowledge a trend.

Btw... speaking of losing very good 17 ppg scorers off of their previous year's team, isn't Duke replacing one too? (Name rhymes with Schmandon Schmingram.)

[flyingdutchdevil]

I guess I would ask for data to contrast the fact that in Bill Self's tenure in Lawrence, he has replaced a high-level big man in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2012, and 2014 with 2nd year players: Darrell Arthur, Cole Aldrich, Marcus/Markieff Morris, Thomas Robinson, Jeff Withey, and Perry Ellis. 4 lottery picks, another 1st rounder, and a 2nd rounder still playing in the league. It is certainly possible that Carlton Bragg falls on his face, and each situation is unique, but at some point I would acknowledge a trend.

Btw... speaking of losing very good 17 ppg scorers off of their previous year's team, isn't Duke replacing one too? (Name rhymes with Schmandon Schmingram.)

Yup. But we're only losing 1; Kansas is losing 2 14+ ppg scorers . Ingram's loss will hurt, but the theory is that Tatum can replace Ingram's efficiency. I assume Wayne Selden's loss will be mitigated by Jackson. The question is more around Ellis, which I think a few posters are curious about.

[jimsumner]

Don't forget Daniel Orton! Isaiah Briscoe is looking like another bust!

Hey, (nearly) every team has them, including Duke. But I'm not sure when the last time a highly-ranked Duke recruit didn't make it. Kyle Singler (RSCI #6)? Maybe Rasheed (RSCI #13, IIRC)?

Duke has had players not live up to their ranking, but a top-10er becoming a bust hasn't happened in a long time (and hopefully doesn't).

With all due respect, I'm not sure I'd put Kyle Singler on the didn't-make-it-list.

[English]

I guess I would ask for data to contrast the fact that in Bill Self's tenure in Lawrence, he has replaced a high-level big man in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2012, and 2014 with 2nd year players: Darrell Arthur, Cole Aldrich, Marcus/Markieff Morris, Thomas Robinson, Jeff Withey, and Perry Ellis. 4 lottery picks, another 1st rounder, and a 2nd rounder still playing in the league. It is certainly possible that Carlton Bragg falls on his face, and each situation is unique, but at some point I would acknowledge a trend.

Btw... speaking of losing very good 17 ppg scorers off of their previous year's team, isn't Duke replacing one too? (Name rhymes with Schmandon Schmingram.)

Excuse me for mentioning anything about big man coaching around these parts, but I notice that there was one consistent element of all these players' developments--except the guy TexHawk has dismissed repeatedly over the last 2+ seasons--that headed down to the Dash for his own HC gig: Danny Manning isn't around anymore. I've always given him a tremendous amount of credit for the development of KU's bigs...was that misplaced or is his loss an actual concern for the KU fanbase going forward?

[NSDukeFan]

Excuse me for mentioning anything about big man coaching around these parts, but I notice that there was one consistent element of all these players' developments--except the guy TexHawk has dismissed repeatedly over the last 2+ seasons--that headed down to the Dash for his own HC gig: Danny Manning isn't around anymore. I've always given him a tremendous amount of credit for the development of KU's bigs...was that misplaced or is his loss an actual concern for the KU fanbase going forward?

Shouldn't Kansas not finish first in the Big 12 sometime before the KU fan base gets concerned? That is one impressive streak. (I know it's not the ACC, but it is certainly a real conference)

[Olympic Fan]

A new preseason ranking to look at. Dick Vitale makes his preseason picks on ESPN:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...n-top-40-teams

Duke No. 1, ahead of No. 2 Kentucky with four ACC teams in the top eight.

It's going to be a deep, deep league.

[BD80]

A new preseason ranking to look at. Dick Vitale makes his preseason picks on ESPN:

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-bas...n-top-40-teams

Duke No. 1, ahead of No. 2 Kentucky with four ACC teams in the top eight.

It's going to be a deep, deep league.

But is it enough? Can we win the B1G/ACC Challenge?

[Olympic Fan]

But is it enough? Can we win the B1G/ACC Challenge?

Well, we still lead the challenge by a wide margin (10-5-2). It's funny how it runs in streaks ... we won the first 10 and haven't won any of the last seven (although we tied twice).

I think the challenge will be important for a number of the middle echelon ACC teams. These are the teams that will finish 10-8, 9-9, 8-10 in the league. To make the NCAA field, these teams will have to post something impressive on their non-conference slate. In several cases, the All-Big Ten Challenge is their only real chance.

Take Pitt. Amazingly easy non-conference schedule (although they will get either Marquette or Michigan in New York) ... their Challenge game with Maryland could be huge.

And Syracuse -- the only time they leave the state of New York pre-conference is a Challenge game at Wisconsin. If they finish 9-9 in the ACC again, that one will be huge.

I would include Clemson, but the Tigers got stuck with Nebraska in Littlejohn ... not much boost there.

Same with Miami ... weak schedule not helped by a home game with Rutgers.

On the other hand, NC State could really need a win at Illinois, while Virginia Tech could use a win at Michigan.

[English]

Well, we still lead the challenge by a wide margin (10-5-2). It's funny how it runs in streaks ... we won the first 10 and haven't won any of the last seven (although we tied twice).

I think the challenge will be important for a number of the middle echelon ACC teams. These are the teams that will finish 10-8, 9-9, 8-10 in the league. To make the NCAA field, these teams will have to post something impressive on their non-conference slate. In several cases, the All-Big Ten Challenge is their only real chance.

Take Pitt. Amazingly easy non-conference schedule (although they will get either Marquette or Michigan in New York) ... their Challenge game with Maryland could be huge.

And Syracuse -- the only time they leave the state of New York pre-conference is a Challenge game at Wisconsin. If they finish 9-9 in the ACC again, that one will be huge.

I would include Clemson, but the Tigers got stuck with Nebraska in Littlejohn ... not much boost there.

Same with Miami ... weak schedule not helped by a home game with Rutgers.

On the other hand, NC State could really need a win at Illinois, while Virginia Tech could use a win at Michigan.

To go one step further, the Committee is likely, fair or not, to look at a 9-9 ACC conference record a bit more leniently if the ACC establishes its dominance as a conference in the Challenge (and pre-season tournaments). I realize the Committee has said this isn't the case in the past, but I call shenanigans. Plus, the conference's respective teams' SOS and (ugh) RPI will be strengthen with strong ACC performance in the Challenge.

[BD80]

... Take Pitt. Amazingly easy non-conference schedule (although they will get either Marquette or Michigan in New York) ... their Challenge game with Maryland could be huge. ...

A few years ago, Pitt v Md in the Big 10 - ACC Challenge would not have sounded so strange. Pitt must've joined their in-state rival in the Big 10.

[DukeTrinity11]

I guess I would ask for data to contrast the fact that in Bill Self's tenure in Lawrence, he has replaced a high-level big man in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2012, and 2014 with 2nd year players: Darrell Arthur, Cole Aldrich, Marcus/Markieff Morris, Thomas Robinson, Jeff Withey, and Perry Ellis. 4 lottery picks, another 1st rounder, and a 2nd rounder still playing in the league. It is certainly possible that Carlton Bragg falls on his face, and each situation is unique, but at some point I would acknowledge a trend.

Btw... speaking of losing very good 17 ppg scorers off of their previous year's team, isn't Duke replacing one too? (Name rhymes with Schmandon Schmingram.)

A KU frontcourt of Bragg, Lucas and Svi simply doesn't compare to Duke's frontcourt of Jefferson, Bolden, Jeter and Giles imo. Duke has the potential top NBA pick overall in 2017, another 2017 potential lottery pick, a potential 2018 1st rounder and a super senior who averaged a double double. This is isn't even a debate.