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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by BD80 View Post
    Don't be so hard, he was an incredible slouch!
    Duuuuude! You had a chance but you blew the quote. The line should be, "He was a 'tremendous slouch.'"

    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Macon, GA
    Jeff Goodman has been on Duke's campus today and has been tweeting out a few things from talking to the players.

    1. Said Frank Jackson is a legit 6'4", I think we've seen him listed as 6'3" in a few places.

    2. Allen is down 10 pounds from the weight he played at last year. Said he feels much quicker.

    3. Giles still hasn't been cleared for full contact practice but he should be soon and should be on schedule to be ready for opener.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichabod Drain View Post
    Jeff Goodman has been on Duke's campus today and has been tweeting out a few things from talking to the players.

    1. Said Frank Jackson is a legit 6'4", I think we've seen him listed as 6'3" in a few places.

    2. Allen is down 10 pounds from the weight he played at last year. Said he feels much quicker.

    3. Giles still hasn't been cleared for full contact practice but he should be soon and should be on schedule to be ready for opener.
    Good to hear. It IS interesting, though, that 10 months out from his surgery date (Nov 24th of last year), he's not cleared for full contact yet. I guess Duke really is being extra-cautious here. FDD, you may have been right.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Good to hear. It IS interesting, though, that 10 months out from his surgery date (Nov 24th of last year), he's not cleared for full contact yet. I guess Duke really is being extra-cautious here. FDD, you may have been right.
    When you're going to be recruiting kids of his caliber that have as a primary goal being 1-and-done, you want to show them that you're going to take "extra special care" of them. Babying a guy back from his second blown ACL is not only a good way to send that signal, it's also probably the rational course of action to maximize his health/return - especially when there's no real need to rush with Jefferson, Bolden, & Jeter (plus Tatum could certainly move down for a few minutes as needed).

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Wahoo2000 View Post
    When you're going to be recruiting kids of his caliber that have as a primary goal being 1-and-done, you want to show them that you're going to take "extra special care" of them. Babying a guy back from his second blown ACL is not only a good way to send that signal, it's also probably the rational course of action to maximize his health/return - especially when there's no real need to rush with Jefferson, Bolden, & Jeter (plus Tatum could certainly move down for a few minutes as needed).
    I dunno about that. I think you're either ready or you're not. For example, when Adrian Peterson returned from ACL surgery in 9 months to play Week 1 and go on to rush for 2,000 yards, I don't think his medical team was taking a risk there or not maximizing his health there. I think he was ready at 9 months and would not have been any more ready at 10 months, 11 months, etc. So I suspect it's not purely "babying" going on here, but there's probably some medical reason why Harry isn't going full contact yet at 10 months. But I'm glad to hear that it will happen soon.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Quote Originally Posted by Troublemaker View Post
    Good to hear. It IS interesting, though, that 10 months out from his surgery date (Nov 24th of last year), he's not cleared for full contact yet. I guess Duke really is being extra-cautious here. FDD, you may have been right.
    Here's the thing: Harry Giles has had two severe knee injuries (one super major and the other kinda major. See, these are not medical terms) before his 18th birthday. If I'm Duke, I'm asking, "is this bad luck or does Harry have bad knees?" The truth is, only Harry's medical staff and the Duke staff probably know the answer to that question. Here at DBR, we don't know. But, if I'm Duke, I'm not risking anything. I'm running tests on Harry. I'm not allowing anything that has a snowball-chance-in-hell of reinjuring a knee. And I'm easing back Harry as slowly as possible.

    I'm not surprised by the non-contact practice right now. Duke is correctly being precautionary right now. Can you imagine the backlash and negative press if Harry reinjures a knee again? At DBR, we'd say it's bad knees. Everyone else would say Duke rushed Harry onto the court. Also, Duke has Harry's best interest in mind. If they can't bring Harry in until December? Who cares! We have more than enough talent to compensate for Harry's absence over two months.
    Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things. - Winston Churchill

    President of the "Nolan Smith Should Have His Jersey in The Rafters" Club

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Here's the thing: Harry Giles has had two severe knee injuries (one super major and the other kinda major. See, these are not medical terms) before his 18th birthday. If I'm Duke, I'm asking, "is this bad luck or does Harry have bad knees?" The truth is, only Harry's medical staff and the Duke staff probably know the answer to that question. Here at DBR, we don't know.
    I would say it is entirely possible that no one knows the answer to this with any certainty. Regardless, caution is definitely warranted.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Macon, GA
    I hope Giles has a full recovery and takes as much time as he needs to get there. As others have said we have more than enough talent on this team, especially in the front court.

    Once he's back I could reasonably see him coming off the bench for a while. How cool would that be to have a second unit with Giles leading it?

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Can you imagine the backlash and negative press if Harry reinjures a knee again?
    We all know Duke University is managed for the benefit of the Medical Center, and they don't want any embarrassment.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichabod Drain View Post
    Jeff Goodman has been on Duke's campus today and has been tweeting out a few things from talking to the players.

    1. Said Frank Jackson is a legit 6'4", I think we've seen him listed as 6'3" in a few places.

    2. Allen is down 10 pounds from the weight he played at last year. Said he feels much quicker.

    3. Giles still hasn't been cleared for full contact practice but he should be soon and should be on schedule to be ready for opener.
    The roster has Jackson at 6-3, and at Nike Hoop Summit he was measured at 6-3.5 WITH shoes...yeah, maybe he's grown...

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Macon, GA
    Big blow for the #5 team in the rankings. Villanova's five star freshman PF Omari Spellman has to take an academic redshirt this year.

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichabod Drain View Post
    Big blow for the #5 team in the rankings. Villanova's five star freshman PF Omari Spellman has to take an academic redshirt this year.
    Agreed, big loss. It's all on Darryl Reynolds to replace the graduated Daniel Ochefu now. Odds are, Villanova won't be nearly as effective at center this season. Their strength will still be on the perimeter, but you want that balance and depth inside.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichabod Drain View Post
    Big blow for the #5 team in the rankings. Villanova's five star freshman PF Omari Spellman has to take an academic redshirt this year.
    Villanova keeps academic records? Geez...

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichabod Drain View Post
    Big blow for the #5 team in the rankings. Villanova's five star freshman PF Omari Spellman has to take an academic redshirt this year.
    At least that never happens over at the Dump on the Hump!

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    At least that never happens over at the Dump on the Hump!
    To my knowledge Roy, Butch Davus and Fedora have never experienced the impact of an academically inelgible athlete. Can we assume they only recruit genius level student athletes since their curricula is so difficult?

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by flyingdutchdevil View Post
    Oregon beat the snot out of a good, well-coached Duke team. I really like what they have going. Put me down in the Oregon camp. I think they are a clear top 5er and second tier team (Duke is the only first tier team). I put them in the same camp as Nova and Kansas. I think any of these three teams can be #2, but I like Oregon based on their returning players.
    KU loses two players off a team that won 17 of 18 to close out the year, falling to the eventual champs in the last minute:
    • Perry Ellis, who was a fantastic offensive player/terrible defensive player. He is being replaced by Carlton Bragg, a McDAA who only got 8 mpg in 15-16. He should be (fingers crossed) able to provide 70% of what Ellis brought to the table.
    • Wayne Selden, who never approached what he could have been in Lawrence. He is being replaced by Josh Jackson, who is on the short-list of players in discussion for the #1 pick in the NBA Draft next June.

    16-17 features a starting 5 of Mason(SR)-Graham(JR)-Jackson(FR)-Bragg-(SO)-Lucas(SR). With Svi Mykhailiuk as the 6th man, and Udoka Azubuike (McDAA) the first big off the bench. They have shooting, defense, senior leadership, and athleticism at all spots on the floor. What exactly holds them back from the first tier?

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by TexHawk View Post
    KU loses two players off a team that won 17 of 18 to close out the year, falling to the eventual champs in the last minute:
    • Perry Ellis, who was a fantastic offensive player/terrible defensive player. He is being replaced by Carlton Bragg, a McDAA who only got 8 mpg in 15-16. He should be (fingers crossed) able to provide 70% of what Ellis brought to the table.
    • Wayne Selden, who never approached what he could have been in Lawrence. He is being replaced by Josh Jackson, who is on the short-list of players in discussion for the #1 pick in the NBA Draft next June.

    16-17 features a starting 5 of Mason(SR)-Graham(JR)-Jackson(FR)-Bragg-(SO)-Lucas(SR). With Svi Mykhailiuk as the 6th man, and Udoka Azubuike (McDAA) the first big off the bench. They have shooting, defense, senior leadership, and athleticism at all spots on the floor. What exactly holds them back from the first tier?
    That wasn't meant as an insult to Kansas, as he did say you guys were a top-5 team and possibly #2. It's just that many Blue Devils fans believe this Duke team will be a juggernaut that belongs in a tier of its own. Personally, I mostly don't buy that. I would rank us #1 but I don't think there's great enough separation from Kansas, Oregon, etc to merit our own tier.

    Kansas is my #2 team. I think you guys have the best starting perimeter trio in the country in Graham-Mason-Jackson, even better than Duke's. I think Duke has the better interior players.

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by TexHawk View Post
    KU loses two players off a team that won 17 of 18 to close out the year, falling to the eventual champs in the last minute:
    • Perry Ellis, who was a fantastic offensive player/terrible defensive player. He is being replaced by Carlton Bragg, a McDAA who only got 8 mpg in 15-16. He should be (fingers crossed) able to provide 70% of what Ellis brought to the table.
    • Wayne Selden, who never approached what he could have been in Lawrence. He is being replaced by Josh Jackson, who is on the short-list of players in discussion for the #1 pick in the NBA Draft next June.

    16-17 features a starting 5 of Mason(SR)-Graham(JR)-Jackson(FR)-Bragg-(SO)-Lucas(SR). With Svi Mykhailiuk as the 6th man, and Udoka Azubuike (McDAA) the first big off the bench. They have shooting, defense, senior leadership, and athleticism at all spots on the floor. What exactly holds them back from the first tier?
    I think you are really, really glossing over the contributions of Ellis and Selden. We are talking about two guys who were three year starters and were 1st and 2nd team All-B12 last season. Ellis was a 1st team All-American for goodness sake!! He is "being replaced" by a dude who barely got off the bench much of the season (though he certainly showed promise when he did). KU's interior depth has been decimated with the loss of Ellis along with Jamari Traylor and Cheick Dialo, (and to a lesser extent Hunter Mickelson).

    I agree that Mason, Graham, and Jackson are likely to be the top backcourt in the land (though Mason and Graham have never had to be nearly the go-to guys they will be asked to be this coming season) and I am not for a moment saying that KU is not a strong contender for the national title. But they don't bring back anyone on the inside as good as Amile Jefferson; anyone on the perimeter anywhere close to as good as Grayson Allen; and though they have 1 elite freshman star and a strong complementary freshman, Duke has at least 2 elite freshmen and a couple more who are complementary or better...

    ...and I didn't even get into specialists Matt Jones and Luke Kennard, arguably the top perimeter defender in the land and one of the elite scorers in the country.

    Allow me to put it this way... if you lined up the top 8 or so players on each team... where is Kansas demonstrably better than Duke? Cause Duke is for sure better at PG (Grayson vs. Mason) as well as C and PF (Amile and Harry vs Bragg and Lucas) and the bench is an utter blowout for Duke. I'd say Jackson and Tatum are very close (NBA may like Jackson better, but in terms of contributing to winning right now, Tatum may be the better player). I'll conceded that Devonte Graham may be a little bit better than Matt Jones, though Jones' defense and intangibles are the kind of things that win games while not filling up the boxscore.

    --Jason "again, Kansas is good, quite good, but there original poster who said Duke would be alone in a top tier was likely right" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    I think you are really, really glossing over the contributions of Ellis and Selden. We are talking about two guys who were three year starters and were 1st and 2nd team All-B12 last season. Ellis was a 1st team All-American for goodness sake!! He is "being replaced" by a dude who barely got off the bench much of the season (though he certainly showed promise when he did). KU's interior depth has been decimated with the loss of Ellis along with Jamari Traylor and Cheick Dialo, (and to a lesser extent Hunter Mickelson).

    I agree that Mason, Graham, and Jackson are likely to be the top backcourt in the land (though Mason and Graham have never had to be nearly the go-to guys they will be asked to be this coming season) and I am not for a moment saying that KU is not a strong contender for the national title. But they don't bring back anyone on the inside as good as Amile Jefferson; anyone on the perimeter anywhere close to as good as Grayson Allen; and though they have 1 elite freshman star and a strong complementary freshman, Duke has at least 2 elite freshmen and a couple more who are complementary or better...

    ...and I didn't even get into specialists Matt Jones and Luke Kennard, arguably the top perimeter defender in the land and one of the elite scorers in the country.

    Allow me to put it this way... if you lined up the top 8 or so players on each team... where is Kansas demonstrably better than Duke? Cause Duke is for sure better at PG (Grayson vs. Mason) as well as C and PF (Amile and Harry vs Bragg and Lucas) and the bench is an utter blowout for Duke. I'd say Jackson and Tatum are very close (NBA may like Jackson better, but in terms of contributing to winning right now, Tatum may be the better player). I'll conceded that Devonte Graham may be a little bit better than Matt Jones, though Jones' defense and intangibles are the kind of things that win games while not filling up the boxscore.

    --Jason "again, Kansas is good, quite good, but there original poster who said Duke would be alone in a top tier was likely right" Evans
    I am on record stating that Duke has more talented players 1-8 and has a higher ceiling, but there are question marks, especially early in the season. Kinda depends on your view of "Is the #1 team the one that is the best right now? Or the one most likely to win the title?" Given what we know now, if I had a gun to my head in Vegas, and I had to bet on a national champ, I would put it on Duke. But when the two teams tip off in MSG in November, I would probably pick KU*. Duke will be relying on freshman to play heavy roles, and KU will not. Given that, I don't see anything that puts KU *clearly* on a lower tier.

    * KU has to play a Top 20 Indiana squad in Hawaii 3 days before this, so jet lag and/or depth could be an issue. Not an excuse, but I ain't betting on it...

    Re your points on Mason/Graham/Bragg/Jackson...
    1- One thing I am not worried about is Devonte Graham and Frank Mason being able to handle being "goto guys". Graham was the goto perimeter player from last February on, and was a/the primary reason for the 17 game winning streak before the Nova game. He was the Big12 Tournament MVP. He was the best player in the Big12 from February 1 to the end of March (non-Buddy Hield division). Mason has started 109 games in a KU uniform.
    2- Josh Jackson is only going to be asked to defend, facilitate, and catch lobs. He is not a shooter, and that's not really needed with Mason/Graham/Bragg/Svi around. I am sure his offensive numbers will pale in comparison to other lottery picks (including Tatum), but Jackson is perfect for this KU team. He's basically everything you say about Matt Jones, but in the body of a future NBA All-Star. It's funny that you used the phrase "contributing to winning right now" for Tatum, when that is exactly what the expectations for Jackson are. He will post averages around 12/5/5, with A++ defense. Anything more than that is cream cheese. This is not another Wiggins situation, who basically had to shoulder the load offensively and defensively for long stretches.
    3- If I had to pick a concern, it would be Bragg filling Ellis's spot, but that's nicking pits. Bragg is a much better passer than Ellis, and is tailor made for Bill Self's hi-low offense. (Ellis was a black hole.) And it's not like we haven't seen freshmen big men improving in KU's offseason program before their sophomore years. Darrell Arthur, Sasha Kaun, Cole Aldrich, Morris x2, Thomas Robinson, and yea, Perry Ellis all say hi. I would not be surprised if this was Bragg's last season in Lawrence.

    Is it really still September?

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by TexHawk View Post
    What exactly holds them back from the first tier?
    From an impartial observer:

    1. Talent: Duke has 4 guys who are likely lottery picks, at least top 20 picks (Giles, Tatum, Bolden, Allen), and an overall roster similar in talent level to Kentucky in 14-15, or UNLV in 90-91 (I only hope their season ends similarly short of a title - no offense, Duke fans).
    2. Veteran excellence: Guys like Jefferson and Jones (plus Allen) check all the boxes: Leadership/Defense/Championship experience
    3. Coaching: While the gap between K and the next set of guys like Self, Izzo, etc isn't HUGE, it's still clear. Self is a Chalmers miracle away from having a real issue with his perceived ability to win in the NCAA tournament

    I think Kansas is going to be awesome this year. AWESOME. In the vast majority of seasons, they'd either be #1, or at a minimum get a huge chunk of the #1 votes. Stars are just kind of aligning for a Duke "superteam" this year. I hope they slip up, but the only even slight weakness I can see is lack of an elite, quick, shutdown perimeter defender (apologies to Duke fans, Jones isn't staying in front of really quick guards 30+ feet from the basket). I don't see that stopping them from winning 30+ games easy, and being HUGE favorites to take an incredibly deep/challenging ACC, and probably clear odds-on favorites to win the title (still hoping they slip up somewhere along the way though!).

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