We're #8. No wait, now we're #7!

[BD80]

Those of us who are honest will remember that the graffiti bridge, juvenile pranks, alcohol-laden parties and watching your step when entering the bathroom on Saturday and Sunday morning were integral parts of the Duke experience in the late 70s and early 80s. Not many 18 year olds, no matter the test scores, are fully ready to take advantage of the resources of a top 20 type school on those lists. Despite that, there's something to be said for the social environment at a school where at any given moment someone could voice an idea or opinion that wouldn't have occurred to you. I liked having friends who were smarter than I was.

Honesty has little to do with my inability to remember some details of my Duke experience in the late '70s. My Duke experience in the late '70s is my primary suspect.

[duke79]

I do enjoy this yearly rankings and look for them each year. However, with the slight movement from year to year and small differences between each ranking I feel it is more useful to put the universities into groups:

Group 1: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford
Group 2: Duke, Colombia, Chicago, Penn, MIT
Group 3: Northwestern, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Hopkins

or you could go 1-10, 11-20, etc...

but really we all know that Duke is #1!

I really like the Duke - Stanford - Northwestern trimvirate.

Note: I believe Duke's highest ranking was #3 my freshman year!

Yea, all of these rankings are highly subjective and, frankly, mostly designed to sell newspapers or magazine. But I agree that your concept of "group rankings" probably makes more sense than the individual numbered rankings. I mean, is Princeton really better than Yale? Or is Harvard better than Stanford? Or vice versa. You should probably create groupings of at least 5 to 10 schools and rank them that way.

I realize this would be very controversial but I would put the top ranking group (for universities) as H-Y-P, Stanford and Duke (with Duke the last of the five and, yea, I'm biased!), with the three top Ivy schools representing the Northeast, Stanford the West, and Duke the Southeast. I know people at Penn, Columbia, Northwestern, Dartmouth, etc. would howl in protest at this ranking but I think you can make a strong case that Duke when it comes to academics (at least as good, probably), name recognition (probably better); athletic prowess (no comparison); size of endowment (more or less in the same ballpark); quality of campus (at least as good); dominance in region (no real competition), etc. would edge out these other schools (IMHO) to be included in the top 5.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I do enjoy this yearly rankings and look for them each year. However, with the slight movement from year to year and small differences between each ranking I feel it is more useful to put the universities into groups:

Group 1: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford
Group 2: Duke, Colombia, Chicago, Penn, MIT
Group 3: Northwestern, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Hopkins

or you could go 1-10, 11-20, etc...

but really we all know that Duke is #1!

I really like the Duke - Stanford - Northwestern trimvirate.

Note: I believe Duke's highest ranking was #3 my freshman year!

Which tier is Kansas?

Oops, wrong thread...

[ipatent]

Yea, all of these rankings are highly subjective and, frankly, mostly designed to sell newspapers or magazine. But I agree that your concept of "group rankings" probably makes more sense than the individual numbered rankings. I mean, is Princeton really better than Yale? Or is Harvard better than Stanford? Or vice versa. You should probably create groupings of at least 5 to 10 schools and rank them that way.

Let's face it, the rankings probably attract more attention as a point of pride to alums and a badge of belonging than as a resource for selecting a school.

The verbal SAT was a good analogue for an IQ test for a long time, with about a 0.9 correlation, but there are Supreme Court decisions that strongly discourage the direct use of intelligence tests in hiring. On top of that there is a virtual media blackout on disclosing those of political candidates, etc. As a consequence of that public policy decision, we're left with the cache of the alma mater. If candidate X went to Princeton, he has an automatic aura of competence and cleverness. The one who went to State U. has to prove himself. That's not really fair, especially for a student who went to a less prestigious school for economic reasons but had test scores that would be above average anywhere. It is one reason that the fascination with the rankings persists. Then again if political candidates had their verbal SAT score superimposed on their foreheads like the first down line in a football game (Comedy Central could have a great time with this concept), we'd probably neglect to notice more important things.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Which tier is Kansas?

Oops, wrong thread...

According to Phoenix22, probably Tier 74th...



Tiers are the best

[Bluedog]

I do enjoy this yearly rankings and look for them each year. However, with the slight movement from year to year and small differences between each ranking I feel it is more useful to put the universities into groups:

Group 1: Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford
Group 2: Duke, Colombia, Chicago, Penn, MIT
Group 3: Northwestern, Cornell, Brown, Dartmouth, Hopkins

or you could go 1-10, 11-20, etc...

but really we all know that Duke is #1!

I really like the Duke - Stanford - Northwestern trimvirate.

Note: I believe Duke's highest ranking was #3 my freshman year!

I personally think Colombia should be just above Venezuela. Just giving you a hard time.

But I agree with viewing universities as tiers/groups. The general consensus is MIT belongs in that tier, which is why people throw out "HYPSM." CalTech also belongs somewhere up there, but it's a slightly different type of school.

[Phoenix22]

I personally think Colombia should be just above Venezuela. Just giving you a hard time.

But I agree with viewing universities as tiers/groups. The general consensus is MIT belongs in that tier, which is why people throw out "HYPSM." CalTech also belongs somewhere up there, but it's a slightly different type of school.

Ha! Nice catch. My girlfriend is from Colombia, so I guess she has the "proper" spelling of her country burned into my mind at this point.

Also. we must admit that including sports as a major part of the quality of these institutions is a bit strange, but I tend to view the sports programs as the University's best marketing tool. Certainly Coach K and national championships have helped Duke immensely in this arena.

[Bluedog]

Ha! Nice catch. My girlfriend is from Colombia, so I guess she has the "proper" spelling of her country burned into my mind at this point.

Also. we must admit that including sports as a major part of the quality of these institutions is a bit strange, but I tend to view the sports programs as the University's best marketing tool. Certainly Coach K and national championships have helped Duke immensely in this arena.

Most people go the other way -- I recall a Duke Chronicle article around 2006 that talked about the McDonald's manager being from Columbia.

Sports are a good marketing tool certainly, but doesn't necessarily help the selectivity and academic prestige of an institution. Otherwise, Alabama would be viewed a bit differently...And UChicago for that matter. Sports may help fundraising efforts though, but some may argue that the money that gets funneled to athletics may have otherwise gone to academic pursuits. Harvard and the rest of the Ivy League is certainly not strapped for cash despite having not high profile sports. Having said all that, I personally appreciate athletics and Duke basketball was factor when applying for me personally (and Coach K HAS helped Duke as an institution no doubt), but I would have survived at Penn too...

[swood1000]

According to the Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education Duke is #7.

WSJ_rankings.jpg

[duke79]

According to the Wall Street Journal/Times Higher Education Duke is #7.

WSJ_rankings.jpg

Princeton is BELOW Duke ?? Hmmmmm.

[rasputin]

Princeton is BELOW Duke ?? Hmmmmm.

Princeton is NOT a clown college!

[ipatent]

How do they define "engagement" and "environment"?

[ipatent]

18th in the world in this one...

https://www.timeshighereducation.com...cols/rank_only

[-jk]

18th in the world in this one...

https://www.timeshighereducation.com...cols/rank_only

Papa'd be proud - "world class" was his goal!

-jk

[westwall]

. (The young lad was happy to stay home and attend the U. of Denver.)

Can't blame him. The skiing is certainly better in the Colorado Rockies than at Massanutten VA.

[sagegrouse]

I'm far removed from the age range for college, but when I look at this list, if I could go to any of the top 6, I'd pick Stanford. It's not clear to me why it's not number 1. When you factor in weather, location, and proximity and relationships to Silicon Valley, I can't imagine turning them down for any of the 5 above them. Not that I ever had to worry about that. Their campus is as beautiful as any campus I've ever seen, and it's way nicer in January and February than any in the Top 10 except maybe Duke.

Let me comment on the weather. I have two grandsons living just north of Palo Alto. One plays baseball year-around. I swear it is warmer at games in January than it is in July. I know it really isn't, but it is sure breezy down by San Francisco Bay at 6 or 7 on a summer evening!

Average January temperature range in Palo Alto is 58 degrees high and 39 degrees low. The comparables for Durham are 49 high and 28 low. Advantage: Stanford.

[HK Dukie]

"Notable alumni include Melinda Gates, co-founder of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation; NBA player Carlos Boozer; and former U.S. Congressman and three-time presidential candidate Ron Paul."

The USNWR couldn't have found a more famous graduate than Boozer? He was great, but perhaps Grant Hill, Adam Silver, Tim Cook, Judy Woodruff, Ken Jeong (because why not?), Richard Nixon (oops), Sonny Jurgensen, Ricardo Lagos (president Chile), and my personal favorite Christian Laettner (who is not more famous from Duke than him?)

[ipatent]

"Notable alumni include Melinda Gates, co-founder of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation; NBA player Carlos Boozer; and former U.S. Congressman and three-time presidential candidate Ron Paul."

The USNWR couldn't have found a more famous graduate than Boozer? He was great, but perhaps Grant Hill, Adam Silver, Tim Cook, Judy Woodruff, Ken Jeong (because why not?), Richard Nixon (oops), Sonny Jurgensen, Ricardo Lagos (president Chile), and my personal favorite Christian Laettner (who is not more famous from Duke than him?)

Nixon, Liddy Dole, Judy Woodruff, Charlie Rose....

[sagegrouse]

Nixon, Liddy Dole, Judy Woodruff, Charlie Rose...

Gen. Martin Dempsey, most recent Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

[Indoor66]

Annabeth Gish, actress