Countdown to Craziness

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I have no actual proof but it seems to me that in general the kids that have transferred out have done worse vs staying at Duke with not a lot of playing time. Gbinije was one notable exception.

I have no basis for my statement either, but it seems to me that when a Duke player transfers, his minutes in a Duke uniform decrease significantly.

[killerleft]

I have no basis for my statement either, but it seems to me that when a Duke player transfers, his minutes in a Duke uniform decrease significantly.

And only one has scored worth a darn for at least 12 months thereafter. Strange!

[arnie]

A list of players who transferred from Duke and received more playing time at their new school than they likely would have received had they stayed at Duke would include

Greg Wendt
Bill Jackman
Billy McCaffrey
Crawford Palmer
Christian Ast
Joey Beard
Andre Sweet
Michael Thompson
Eric Boateng
Jamal Boykin
Elliott Wlliams
Olek Czyz
Michael Gbinijie


Exceptions to that rule
Mike Chappell
Taylor King

Jury still out
Semi Ojeleye
Alex Murphy
Derryck Thornton

Special case
Rasheed Sulamion

Am I leaving out anyone?

What happened to Joe Cook - late 80's. Did he transfer or just leave the team?

[OldPhiKap]

A list of players who transferred from Duke and received more playing time at their new school than they likely would have received had they stayed at Duke would include

Greg Wendt
Bill Jackman
Billy McCaffrey
Crawford Palmer
Christian Ast
Joey Beard
Andre Sweet
Michael Thompson
Eric Boateng
Jamal Boykin
Elliott Wlliams
Olek Czyz
Michael Gbinijie


Exceptions to that rule
Mike Chappell
Taylor King

Jury still out
Semi Ojeleye
Alex Murphy
Derryck Thornton

Special case
Rasheed Sulamion

Am I leaving out anyone?

I might move Elliot Williams to the "special case" category too, although I am sure you know more about the situation than I do.

Andre Sweet also had academic issues IIRC, his transfer may not have been all minutes-related.

[jimsumner]

What happened to Joe Cook - late 80's. Did he transfer or just leave the team?

Flunked out.

As did Tony Moore a few years later.

[arnie]

Flunked out.

As did Tony Moore a few years later.

Thanks. Tony flunking out as a senior really sad as he was finally gonna play a lot.

[jimsumner]

I might move Elliot Williams to the "special case" category too, although I am sure you know more about the situation than I do.

Andre Sweet also had academic issues IIRC, his transfer may not have been all minutes-related.

K suspended Sweet indefinitely for less-than-stellar-academic performance. But he was still technically eligible. Still, probably a rational decision by him. He went back home and had a good career at Seton Hall, playing major minutes for an NCAA Tournament team, which ironically lost to Duke in the 2004 tournament. Sweet played 30 minutes in that game--7 points, 5 assists. He was never going to play 30 minutes for Duke in an NCAA Tournament game.

Nor was it likely that Elliott Williams would ever had averaged 18 points per game for Duke, not sharing minutes and touches with Kyle Singler, Nolan Smith, Jon Scheyer.

Then again, he wouldn't have played in the 2010 NIT either, had he stuck around.

My list was intended to address an earlier comment that most of the players who transferred from Duke did not enhance their PT not to suggest that they all had the same reasons for transferring. Playing time, academics, family illnesses, even home sickness are variables. But most of these guys made a decision that they thought was in their best academic/athletic interests and I've never seen any reason to disparage them for it. And it worked out for a large number of them.

[BD80]

I have no actual proof but it seems to me that in general the kids that have transferred out have done worse vs staying at Duke with not a lot of playing time. Gbinije was one notable exception.

Well, he ended up with the Pistons: room for argument either way.

[ipatent]

Am I leaving out anyone?

Chris Burgess, who would have settled down and done just fine had he stayed, IMHO. Maybe even hit some free throws.

[jimsumner]

Chris Burgess, who would have settled down and done just fine had he stayed, IMHO. Maybe even hit some free throws.

Ah, Chris Burgess. I knew I left out someone.

Mucho thanks.

Burgess actually had some success at Utah despite some serious injuries, bad back, bad foot. He averaged 13 and 7 as a senior before suffering a season-ending injury.

Would he have had the same setbacks at Duke? If not, would he have played ahead of Carlos Boozer? Alongside him? Would he have replaced Boozer in 2001 when Boozer broke a foot? Would his extra depth carried Duke much deeper in the 2000 NCAAs?

[unexpected]

To quibble, I don't think Michael Thompson ever played for NU before his heart condition was discovered and he retired from the game; but I do agree that he would have probably played more at NU than at Duke.

With regards to Elliot Williams, he would have been a key member of the rotation if he had stayed. He went from being a starter to being the star.

Boateng received negligible minutes at Arizona state up until his senior year (5th year of basketball). After he transferred, Wikipedia says he average 1.6, 8.2, and then 27.1 minutes. He actually received less playing time his first year eligible at AZ State than he did his freshman year at Duke.

[whereinthehellami]

I thought Spatola did a good job announcing and had some insightful comments; Bolden needs to play with more of a motor, can Tatum be a more efficient scorer, and how the offense will look clunky at times without a true PG.

Allen took some really bad, ill-advised shots, that were not close to going in. And I was hoping for more maturity, body language still looks like an issue. While his ball handling looked decent, his passing was questionable.

I love Bolden's size, legit. He really bothered people around the rim, Kennard learned his lesson(s). I love his potential as the fifth starter who clogs the lane, protects the rim, and collects garbage on offense. That is really all that he needs to do this year.

Jeter is just not a natural looking player to me. He has issues with his hands, balance, and timing.

Jackson had some nice strong drives. Kid is strong and explosive. What will his role be and will he embrace it?

I think that is the big question after looking at the team and all the talent they have. There is a lot of talent and big personalities. How will that come together? Will it come together and form a dominating machine or will it remain a collection of really talented players.

KY seems like a team designed to give Duke fits with their quick guards and athletic bigs.

[jimsumner]

To quibble, I don't think Michael Thompson ever played for NU before his heart condition was discovered and he retired from the game; but I do agree that he would have probably played more at NU than at Duke.

With regards to Elliot Williams, he would have been a key member of the rotation if he had stayed. He went from being a starter to being the star.

Boateng received negligible minutes at Arizona state up until his senior year (5th year of basketball). After he transferred, Wikipedia says he average 1.6, 8.2, and then 27.1 minutes. He actually received less playing time his first year eligible at AZ State than he did his freshman year at Duke.

Thompson played 13 games for Northwestern in the spring of the 2005 season, averaging 10 points and five rebounds per game in 28 minutes per game. He played five times more minutes in that one semester at Northwestern than he did in three semesters at Duke.

Thompson played five minutes the following season before being diagnosed with a heart ailment that ended his playing career.

As noted, Eric Boateng averaged 27 minutes per game as a senior at ASU, where he averaged 8.8 points and 7.2 rebounds per game, shooting 66.5% from the field. I would have been surprised to see him ever reach those thresholds at Duke, although he would have come in handy during those years when Brian Zoubek couldn't stay healthy and Duke kept sending out Kyle Singler or Lance Thomas at the 5.

BTW, I believe the Wiki entry on Boateng has a typo, unless we want to believe that he averaged 3.9 points and 2.6 rebounds per game in 1.6 minutes per game in 2008, in which case Herb Sendek may have under-utilized him.

[gocanes0506]

Sorry for the late response:

I'm not in the Matt hate or bandwagon club. I do take his awesome D with a grain of salt. When you play with someone for 2+ years, you learn their tendencies. We'll see how Matt does against new opponents.

Tatum looked good, I worry about his shot late in the game. The fade away takes a lot of legs to be consistently accurate. His legs will wear down in college because he'll have to play good D.

Of course all observations don't matter

[GGLC]

Sorry for the late response:

I'm not in the Matt hate or bandwagon club. I do take his awesome D with a grain of salt. When you play with someone for 2+ years, you learn their tendencies. We'll see how Matt does against new opponents.

Tatum looked good, I worry about his shot late in the game. The fade away takes a lot of legs to be consistently accurate. His legs will wear down in college because he'll have to play good D.

Of course all observations don't matter

New opponents like Sam Dekker in the national championship game?

[budwom]

Ah, Chris Burgess. I knew I left out someone.

Mucho thanks.

Burgess actually had some success at Utah despite some serious injuries, bad back, bad foot. He averaged 13 and 7 as a senior before suffering a season-ending injury.

Would he have had the same setbacks at Duke? If not, would he have played ahead of Carlos Boozer? Alongside him? Would he have replaced Boozer in 2001 when Boozer broke a foot? Would his extra depth carried Duke much deeper in the 2000 NCAAs?

In one of the more interesting and prescient exchanges between a recruit and a recruiting service that I can recall (not that I can recall much), Elton Brand was asked whether he was worried about available playing time what
with Chris Burgess also being committed to Duke....Elton said Chris Burgess was the one who needed to be worried.

[jimsumner]

In one of the more interesting and prescient exchanges between a recruit and a recruiting service that I can recall (not that I can recall much), Elton Brand was asked whether he was worried about available playing time what
with Chris Burgess also being committed to Duke...Elton said Chris Burgess was the one who needed to be worried.

That reminds me of a story that Wes Chesson once told me. Chesson was a quarterback in high school, a pretty good one. Now, as you recall, Tom Harp was one of these guys who was of the opinion that most high-school teams played their best athlete at quarterback, so he recruited as many QBs as he could, with the expectation that most of them would end up helping somewhere else.

So, one day, after Chesson had committed to Duke, he gets a call from Harp, who informs him that Leo Hart had just committed to Duke.

Chesson responded to Harp, "Good. I'll have somebody to throw to."

Funny how that worked out.

[Olympic Fan]

That reminds me of a story that Wes Chesson once told me. Chesson was a quarterback in high school, a pretty good one. Now, as you recall, Tom Harp was one of these guys who was of the opinion that most high-school teams played their best athlete at quarterback, so he recruited as many QBs as he could, with the expectation that most of them would end up helping somewhere else.

So, one day, after Chesson had committed to Duke, he gets a call from Harp, who informs him that Leo Hart had just committed to Duke.

Chesson responded to Harp, "Good. I'll have somebody to throw to."

Funny how that worked out.

Actually, both Hart and Chesson were afterthoughts in that recruiting class.

The real prize was Brad Evans, who was the most highly rated quarterback IN THE COUNTRY that season. Evans was recruited by Bear Bryant at Alabama, Woody Hayes at Ohio State and a young Joe Paterno at Penn State. He was a two-sport All-American -- the Ron Curry or Greg Paulus of his era.

The expectation was the Evans would become Duke's quarterback ... only he opted to play basketball for Bubas instead. After three years on the hardwood, he finally switched to football (and played wide receiver)..

[jimsumner]

Actually, both Hart and Chesson were afterthoughts in that recruiting class.

The real prize was Brad Evans, who was the most highly rated quarterback IN THE COUNTRY that season. Evans was recruited by Bear Bryant at Alabama, Woody Hayes at Ohio State and a young Joe Paterno at Penn State. He was a two-sport All-American -- the Ron Curry or Greg Paulus of his era.

The expectation was the Evans would become Duke's quarterback ... only he opted to play basketball for Bubas instead. After three years on the hardwood, he finally switched to football (and played wide receiver)..

As you know, lots of folks thought he projected better as a safety than as a quarterback. UCLA was one of the schools recruiting him to play on defense.

And he was a local, a Durham kid. His father was a long-time Durham policeman, IIRC. He and classmate Randy Denton--from Raleigh--were the first high-profile North Carolinians successfully recruited by Vic Bubas.