Seth Greenberg - "Coaches want K to admit USA Basketball has helped Duke"

[Steven43]

Greenberg does mention those other coaches as having an advantage. And, it may be too fine a point but it's the reason I started the thread...

We know K gets an advantage, an earned advantage, no one is disputing it. The new news to me was this idea that a good percentage of coaches resent that he won't publically admit that it gives him an advantage. That when it is brought up, he won't just say, "Yes, I have an advantage". Which, to me, is further proof that the dude can't win.

What advantage is there in him admitting he got an advantage? If he did so earlier, maybe public pressure to have him removed starts up. Who knows. He's smart to stay quiet on this one.

I honestly cannot believe this has come up as a topic of conversation or controversy. Why would even one NCAA coach give a darn whether or not Coach K acknowledges he has a recruiting advantage? What is this, kindergarten? Who CARES?! Why would a college basketball coach waste even ten seconds of his precious time with such meaningless nonsense?

I think Seth Greenberg is lying through his teeth when he claims there are a significant number of coaches who want Coach K to admit he has an advantage. Either somebody put Greenberg up to it or he has a personal axe to grind with Coach K and is desperately looking for any possible way to take a shot at him. This whole thing is the height of silliness and irresponsibility.

Team USA just finished winning an Olympic gold medal with a thrown-together group of players, many of whom would not have even made the team had all those Coach K truly wanted agreed to play. Coach K just completed another outstanding job as the head coach of Team USA and he has to deal with pathetic malcontents like Stephen Smith and Greenberg bringing up this garbage?

The idea that Coach K is somehow dodging the issue is simply not true. How is he supposed to honestly know whether or not his position as head coach of Team USA is an advantage in recruiting? There is no empirical evidence one way or the other. There simply are way too many variables that cannot be controlled for properly to answer the question with any legitimacy. It is 100% unprovable.

The only thing I can say on the matter is WHO CARES anyway? If Coach K were to say he feels he has an advantage would it tangibly affect even one recruiting outcome? Would the recruits who are high on Duke right now suddenly decide not to come to Duke? What exactly is the point of this seemingly pointless exercise by Smith and Greenberg? What do they hope will happen? This thing is so darn weird and I just don't get it.

[moonpie23]

sean dockery....



yeah, i said it...

[jipops]

Featherston once again squashing away the nonsense. Where was this "recruiting advantage" in 2008 and 2010? I guess it helped land Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston?

I agree K's recruiting riches have changed entirely when it became obvious to everyone that he had embraced the one-and-done. I would say this has been vastly more impactful on his ability to recruit in today's landscape than simply coaching USA basketball.

Before the one-and-done era really gained steam, K was already recruiting with the best of them (circa '97, '99, '02)

[amat1129]

Clearly Seth wasn't held enough as a child. He loves attention as much as Roy Williams loves coke

Roy snorts yay? I doubt it with how droopy he is.

[oldnavy]

Can you imagine the advantage K would have if Duke were to set up a sham major and fake classes to keep players eligible without having to do class work?

We may have gone undefeated over the past 18 years!

[dukelifer]

I honestly cannot believe this has come up as a topic of conversation or controversy. Why would even one NCAA coach give a darn whether or not Coach K acknowledges he has a recruiting advantage? What is this, kindergarten? Who CARES?! Why would a college basketball coach waste even ten seconds of his precious time with such meaningless nonsense?

I think Seth Greenberg is lying through his teeth when he claims there are a significant number of coaches who want Coach K to admit he has an advantage. Either somebody put Greenberg up to it or he has a personal axe to grind with Coach K and is desperately looking for any possible way to take a shot at him. This whole thing is the height of silliness and irresponsibility.

Team USA just finished winning an Olympic gold medal with a thrown-together group of players, many of whom would not have even made the team had all those Coach K truly wanted agreed to play. Coach K just completed another outstanding job as the head coach of Team USA and he has to deal with pathetic malcontents like Stephen Smith and Greenberg bringing up this garbage?

The idea that Coach K is somehow dodging the issue is simply not true. How is he supposed to honestly know whether or not his position as head coach of Team USA is an advantage in recruiting? There is no empirical evidence one way or the other. There simply are way too many variables that cannot be controlled for properly to answer the question with any legitimacy. It is 100% unprovable.

The only thing I can say on the matter is WHO CARES anyway? If Coach K were to say he feels he has an advantage would it tangibly affect even one recruiting outcome? Would the recruits who are high on Duke right now suddenly decide not to come to Duke? What exactly is the point of this seemingly pointless exercise by Smith and Greenberg? What do they hope will happen? This thing is so darn weird and I just don't get it.

Here is the list of current coaches that may care

Calipari
Williams
Pitino
Izzo
Self
Miller

Doesn't seem like a significant number

[richardjackson199]

Featherston once again squashing away the nonsense. Where was this "recruiting advantage" in 2008 and 2010? I guess it helped land Tyler Thornton and Josh Hairston?

I agree K's recruiting riches have changed entirely when it became obvious to everyone that he had embraced the one-and-done. I would say this has been vastly more impactful on his ability to recruit in today's landscape than simply coaching USA basketball.

Before the one-and-done era really gained steam, K was already recruiting with the best of them (circa '97, '99, '02)

And this was underscored mightily when K won the 2015 Natty with 3 freshmen who then all got drafted in the first round. Our recruiting really took off (again) after that, because that is what many of these kids want. K won this Natty the year that Cal was supposed to with his undefeated superteam led by a player he lured while coaching the Dominican national team. Then Cal helps Woj write a hatchet piece on K for his recruiting advantage from coaching the national team. Oh the irony.

No, K winning 5 gold medals and being openly adored by NBA studs has not hurt. Or maybe in some cases it has. Maybe we lost Kenny Boynton to Florida in 2008 when K was busy with Team USA while Donovan recruited him away. Or maybe we lost Jermaine Samuels to Villanova because we offered him too late (basically the same weekend he was already going on his official to Nova). Maybe K, who supposedly really liked him, would have offered sooner if he hadn't been tied up with Capel in Rio for the last month during recruiting season. Or maybe Nova just winning a miracle championship with a great coach is why they landed this kid from the northeast. Maybe it was playing time. It's tough to prove - too many factors in play. Great piece by Feather, making arguments with facts.

Success breeds more success, as K said. Be jealous all you want haters, but for success you'll get no apologies.

And isn't it moot now that K is no longer Team USA's coach? (Sadly, I know it's never moot to hate on K. Enjoy it - it means he's doing something right.)

[DevilHorse]

FIFY

Can someone please beat Seth Greenberg with a dead horse?

I find this dead horse talk most distressing..

Larry
DevilHorse

[Rich]

Roy snorts yay? I doubt it with how droopy he is.

So that we can avoid unnecessary rumors or gossip, the person who commented was referring to Coca-Cola, not cocaine. It's well known that Roy loves Coke, the drink not the drug.

[OldPhiKap]

Not only is it an incredible advantage, K was able to manipulate Jerry Colangelo into practically begging K not to quit after 2012 so that K could grow the advantage even greater. K makes Walter White look like an amateur. K is in the empire business for sure.

[Pghdukie]

Here is the list of current coaches that may care

Calipari
Williams
Pitino
Izzo
Self
Miller

Doesn't seem like a significant number

I would add to this list EVERY coach that can NOT recruit top talent.

[Edouble]

I would add to this list EVERY coach that can NOT recruit top talent.

Well, Roy is already on the list.

[johnb]

i like Seth's commentary and am impressed that he has so many opinions. I find him fallible but entertaining.

of course it helps to successfully run Team USA.

of course it's helpful to be known as being in favor of 1+done while recruiting Jabari, Harry, etc.

lots of things are helpful, including Capel, a history of success, and luck.

for some reason(s), we're on a hot streak that will likely never be duplicated in the coming decades (at least at Duke). If people want to insinuate that we have lots of power while we also win, then I'm okay with opposing teams thinking we have somehow bought the refs and have a mysterious power over 17 year olds.

[johnb]

Okay, we've been on a hot streak for 30 years, but things have heated up recently.

Broad academic preparation may be another key factor. Many years ago, it seems that it was "common knowledge" that most top 50 recruits couldn't be recruited to Duke because they weren't academically prepared. Maybe that was simply wrong (as is true for much common knowledge), but it does seem that we are now looking seriously at most elite players. Obviously, some "aren't a good fit," which I'd guess often means academics, though it could also mean countless other things.

Anyway, I'd be curious if anyone has thoughts or data on whether a higher percentage of hs elite players are better prepared in the aftermath of stricter NCAA standards for academics that may have lifted all boats from the era where kids could matriculate at major state universities while being functionally illiterate.

[BD80]

So that we can avoid unnecessary rumors or gossip, the person who commented was referring to Coca-Cola, not cocaine. It's well known that Roy loves Coke, the drink not the drug.

Well, the positive assertion was correct. The negative isn't necessarily true - he was "leasing" (?) a house to a known drug user.

[TKG]

Featherston once again squashing away the nonsense

I look forward to the day when Featherston, Jacobs and even DBR writes a piece about K's success/career without mentioning coaches - former and current - from that institution in Chapel Hill. K's success is not relative, it is absolute. That success is neither enhanced nor diminished by comparison with others.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Okay, we've been on a hot streak for 30 years, but things have heated up recently.

Broad academic preparation may be another key factor. Many years ago, it seems that it was "common knowledge" that most top 50 recruits couldn't be recruited to Duke because they weren't academically prepared. Maybe that was simply wrong (as is true for much common knowledge), but it does seem that we are now looking seriously at most elite players. Obviously, some "aren't a good fit," which I'd guess often means academics, though it could also mean countless other things.

Anyway, I'd be curious if anyone has thoughts or data on whether a higher percentage of hs elite players are better prepared in the aftermath of stricter NCAA standards for academics that may have lifted all boats from the era where kids could matriculate at major state universities while being functionally illiterate.

I don't have an answer for you, but I would point out that you very rarely hear about a player on any team being deemed academically ineligible. It seemed to be a regular occurance in the 80's and 90's. Draw your own conclusions.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Okay, we've been on a hot streak for 30 years, but things have heated up recently.

Broad academic preparation may be another key factor. Many years ago, it seems that it was "common knowledge" that most top 50 recruits couldn't be recruited to Duke because they weren't academically prepared. Maybe that was simply wrong (as is true for much common knowledge), but it does seem that we are now looking seriously at most elite players. Obviously, some "aren't a good fit," which I'd guess often means academics, though it could also mean countless other things.

Anyway, I'd be curious if anyone has thoughts or data on whether a higher percentage of hs elite players are better prepared in the aftermath of stricter NCAA standards for academics that may have lifted all boats from the era where kids could matriculate at major state universities while being functionally illiterate.

K. has commented in the past that he feels the stricter standards have benefitted Duke's recruitment.
Love, Ima

[ipatent]

Here's one for Seth Greenberg..

[alteran]

I'm on the bubble about Seth's comments. Which somehow feels natural.

Zing!