Summer grinds!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Sorry. With or without a jump shot, Amile is going to be awesome.

This. And the chances that he develops a jump shot are <5%.

It doesn't really matter. What Amile brings to the table - defense, rebounding, leadership, intangibles - is necessary for next year's team. A jump shot? Not very necessary at all. Plus, with Tatum, Allen, and Giles starting and Kennard off the bench, do we really need more offense? Amile's 10/10 will be perfect.

[yancem]

This. And the chances that he develops a jump shot are <5%.

It doesn't really matter. What Amile brings to the table - defense, rebounding, leadership, intangibles - is necessary for next year's team. A jump shot? Not very necessary at all. Plus, with Tatum, Allen, and Giles starting and Kennard off the bench, do we really need more offense? Amile's 10/10 will be perfect.

From listening to the Scheyer podcast with Jefferson, it sounds like he actually has a decent outside shot he just hasn't had the confidence to take it very often in games. I'm also pretty sure that I read somewhere that he had a decent mid-range game in HS. Now neither of those things mean that he will be able to demonstrate much range in live games this year but it is at least encouraging. I think a decent outside shot is his biggest obstacle to having a shot at the nba. He brings a lot of the same intangibles to the table that Lance Thomas does but if he can't be a credible threat from outside the lane, that really limits his value at the next level.

I do agree however that with or without an outside shot he will still be very valuable to the team this year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

From listening to the Scheyer podcast with Jefferson, it sounds like he actually has a decent outside shot he just hasn't had the confidence to take it very often in games. I'm also pretty sure that I read somewhere that he had a decent mid-range game in HS. Now neither of those things mean that he will be able to demonstrate much range in live games this year but it is at least encouraging. I think a decent outside shot is his biggest obstacle to having a shot at the nba. He brings a lot of the same intangibles to the table that Lance Thomas does but if he can't be a credible threat from outside the lane, that really limits his value at the next level.

I do agree however that with or without an outside shot he will still be very valuable to the team this year.

I know Amile gets compared to LT, but I'm not sure that's really fair to either player. LT was one of the best defensive players at Duke in the last 15-20 years. He was able to guard 5 positions and had smothering on-the-ball defense. But he was a mediocre rebounder (3.6 per game during his career at Duke and only 4.9 his senior year). Also, he wasn't a good scorer. I know there are a lot of people on DBR who cringed everytime LT shot the ball (and I'm one of them).

Amile is an exceptional rebounder at 10.3 rebounders last year (and that's from playing the 4, not the 5). He's arguably one of the better offense rebounders in Duke history. He is really good at scoring within 4 feet of the rim. His defense is good - and maybe even really good - but he's not a defensive stopper. Also, he can guard the 4, most certainly a college 5, and maybe a slow 3. But he isn't suited to guard 1s and 2s.

I understand why Amile and LT are often discussed in the same sentence: same height, ultimate glue guy, intangibles, lack of a J... but I really think these two players are very different from one another.

[NSDukeFan]

I agree with most, if not all of your post, but would add that I am not that scared when Amile gets switched on to a guard and think he is close to LT as a defensive player because he is able to contest shots at the rim better because of his length. His reach also allows him to stay with guards better, even if he isn't as quick as Lance.
I was not afraid of LT shooting and thought he hit a bunch of mid range jumpers his senior year to partly keep the defense honest and not completely hedging on the 3 S's

[Furniture]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebluep...863873/video/1
Early morning work for the big guys...
https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebluep...246208/video/1

[flyingdutchdevil]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebluep...863873/video/1
Early morning work for the big guys...
https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebluep...246208/video/1

Harry Giles doing non-contact drills with the team. I like that. He's turning pretty aggressively for said drills, and you absolutely need functioning ACLs to do that.

[Troublemaker]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebluep...863873/video/1
Early morning work for the big guys...
https://mobile.twitter.com/dukebluep...246208/video/1

In that first video, check out Amile participating in drills with the guards. Now, I'm sure at other points in practice, he's on the other end of the court drilling with the bigs BUT this may be an indication of the versatile role Amile will play this year. I can see us utilizing his ball-handling and passing more than usual this season since there is no point guard.

[CDu]

I know Amile gets compared to LT, but I'm not sure that's really fair to either player. [B]LT was one of the best defensive players at Duke in the last 15-20 years. He was able to guard 5 positions and had smothering on-the-ball defense. But he was a mediocre rebounder (3.6 per game during his career at Duke and only 4.9 his senior year). Also, he wasn't a good scorer. I know there are a lot of people on DBR who cringed everytime LT shot the ball (and I'm one of them).

I agree that the two are not that similar. But to be fair, I think this might be overstating Thomas' defensive skill set. He was a terrific defender his senior year, especially in his ability to defend multiple positions. But for the first 3 years, he was mainly a spazz. Lots of energy and effort, but out of control and ultimately not effective. That's not to say that Thomas wasn't a good defender his senior year; he certainly was. But I wouldn't necessarily put him on a short list of best defensive players at Duke in the last two decades.

So much of what made that 2010 team great was that everyone was an effective positional defender and communicator. Our main guys were so good, so experienced, and so smart that Thomas and (especially) Zoubek rarely got stuck in isolation against guards. The team just knew what it was doing out there, which made everyone look better. It also helped that the staff reined in our extended pressure on the perimeter to help protect the paint, which was big given our relative lack of speed/quickness at several positions.

I think Jefferson is arguably as good defensively going into his last year as Thomas was going into his last year. He isn't as quick as Thomas was, but he also isn't as spastic as Thomas was. In isolation, he probably doesn't stand quite as good a chance as Thomas did in guarding quicker guards, but his smarts are ahead of where Thomas was going into his senior year. And as you said, Jefferson is a far better rebounder as well, and far more capable of scoring.

[DukieTiger]

There are plenty of former Dukies who I'd probably rather have switched onto a guard. But there are verrrrrry few Blue Devils I'd rather have on a stretchy 4-5 than Amile. He's shut down two of the best offensive collegians since Curry. I don't know that Lance would have had as much success against McDermott or Kaminski. Amile's length is real!

[hillsborodevil]

I have a fond memory of Amile's last game as a junior with Big Oak sitting with 4 fouls.

[devildeac]

I have a fond memory of Amile's last game as a junior with Big Oak sitting with 4 fouls.

And, to his great credit, he volunteered to guard big Frank. (of course, K prolly didn't give him much choice ) .

[flyingdutchdevil]

I agree that the two are not that similar. But to be fair, I think this might be overstating Thomas' defensive skill set. He was a terrific defender his senior year, especially in his ability to defend multiple positions. But for the first 3 years, he was mainly a spazz. Lots of energy and effort, but out of control and ultimately not effective. That's not to say that Thomas wasn't a good defender his senior year; he certainly was. But I wouldn't necessarily put him on a short list of best defensive players at Duke in the last two decades.

So much of what made that 2010 team great was that everyone was an effective positional defender and communicator. Our main guys were so good, so experienced, and so smart that Thomas and (especially) Zoubek rarely got stuck in isolation against guards. The team just knew what it was doing out there, which made everyone look better. It also helped that the staff reined in our extended pressure on the perimeter to help protect the paint, which was big given our relative lack of speed/quickness at several positions.

I think Jefferson is arguably as good defensively going into his last year as Thomas was going into his last year. He isn't as quick as Thomas was, but he also isn't as spastic as Thomas was. In isolation, he probably doesn't stand quite as good a chance as Thomas did in guarding quicker guards, but his smarts are ahead of where Thomas was going into his senior year. And as you said, Jefferson is a far better rebounder as well, and far more capable of scoring.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I remember LT as being lock-down, or as close to being lock-down. And while you're absolutely right that the 3 S's did a great job of not letting their respective opponents drive by, LT was able to cover when necessary and switch. He was versatile, active, intelligence, and calm (unlike, as you stated, his first three years). I'd take a senior LT on defense over a senior (or fifth year senior) Amile on defense. On offense? No question. In totality? Amile > LT. But I think LT's D was a thing of beauty.

[yancem]

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I remember LT as being lock-down, or as close to being lock-down. And while you're absolutely right that the 3 S's did a great job of not letting their respective opponents drive by, LT was able to cover when necessary and switch. He was versatile, active, intelligence, and calm (unlike, as you stated, his first three years). I'd take a senior LT on defense over a senior (or fifth year senior) Amile on defense. On offense? No question. In totality? Amile > LT. But I think LT's D was a thing of beauty.

Well to be fair, we have seen senior year Thomas but have yet to see senior (or fifth year senior) Jefferson. Thomas made a huge leap forward in pretty much all aspects of his game his senior year. If junior year Jefferson is >= junior year Thomas, then is it not a decent probability that senior year Jefferson will be >= to senior Thomas? I agree that senior Thomas was a on the ball beast defender and great help defender but I'm not sure that his perimeter defense was as strong prior to his senior year. I think that Jefferson will make some pretty strong strides this year and can close the gap, but only time will tell. One thing that may make the comparison difficult is the depth advantage 2017 will have over 2010. Jefferson probably won't be asked to do nearly as much as Thomas was.

[CDu]

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I remember LT as being lock-down, or as close to being lock-down. And while you're absolutely right that the 3 S's did a great job of not letting their respective opponents drive by, LT was able to cover when necessary and switch. He was versatile, active, intelligence, and calm (unlike, as you stated, his first three years). I'd take a senior LT on defense over a senior (or fifth year senior) Amile on defense. On offense? No question. In totality? Amile > LT. But I think LT's D was a thing of beauty.

I'm happy to agree to disagree, but I can't help but wonder if your memory has grown fuzzy with time due to us having a great final 2 months in 2010 as a team and winning a national championship. Thomas was a guy who, as a senior: fouled out in 14 minutes in a January loss against Ga Tech; got torched by Tracy Smith and Dennis Horner in January at NC State; joined the team in being useless defensively at Georgetown at the end of January; committed 5 fouls in 22 minutes against BC in February; committed 3 fouls in 19 minutes against Baylor in the tourney. Even in his senior year, Thomas was hit or miss defensively.

Don't get me wrong - I think Thomas was - in aggregate - a very solid defender as a senior. He and Zoubek and the three perimeter guys really clicked starting with February 2010 and running through the tourney, losing just once at Maryland in that time. And he was physically capable of defending multiple positions to a degree probably moreso than Jefferson is. That was critical as Zoubek was a very limited defender (good at what he could do, but he could only do a limited number of things). So Thomas needed to be versatile to allow us to hide Zoubek when necessary. I just don't think he was so much better defensively than Jefferson is. I think Jefferson has generally played with poise defensively that Thomas only showed in stretches as a senior. I think he has better positional awareness, longer arms, and is a better communicator.

Of course, none of this invalidates your point that the two are not similar. Thomas was more springy and quick, Jefferson longer and more rangy. Jefferson is better on the boards and more crafty, Thomas a bit more versatile. And that's just discussing the defensive side. The two are substantially divergent offensively.

[Furniture]

Matt Jones time. Brilliant.
https://amp.twimg.com/v/c4a294ab-5d7...0-43bc82b1c6dc
Love it....

[flyingdutchdevil]

Matt Jones time. Brilliant.
https://amp.twimg.com/v/c4a294ab-5d7...0-43bc82b1c6dc
Love it...

Matt Jones looks a lot more cut (ie he either gained strength or lost weight. My guess is a little bit of both but moreso to the latter). Matt Jones has always been big, but I think he's shed a lot of weight. That tells me he'll be playing a lot more 2 than 3 this year (but I guess that is always the case).

I really hope to see Matt Jones on the court A LOT this year. His 3-and-D will be invaluable to the team, especially as Tatum, Allen, Kennard, Marques, Jefferson, Giles, and Jackson are much bigger offensive threats. I just don't want to see any Matt Jones lay-ups; if it ain't fixed during the first three years, doubt it's fixed now. There are plenty of shots that have a much higher expected value (ie nearly any other shot).

[lotusland]

I wonder if Matt is our primary point guard this year especially out of the gate. Other candidates, I guess, are Grayson, Luke and Jackson.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I wonder if Matt is our primary point guard this year especially out of the gate. Other candidates, I guess, are Grayson, Luke and Jackson.

My money is on Grayson. Our best returning passer, he's lost weight, he's stated that he's worked on his handle...

But I suspect that it'll be PG by committee, with players like Giles and Tatum even running the point at times.

[Troublemaker]

I wonder if Matt is our primary point guard this year especially out of the gate. Other candidates, I guess, are Grayson, Luke and Jackson.

My money is on Grayson. Our best returning passer, he's lost weight, he's stated that he's worked on his handle...

But I suspect that it'll be PG by committee, with players like Giles and Tatum even running the point at times.

I think it will be Grayson and also Amile in a Draymond Green like role. That's why Amile is drilling with the guards as well as the bigs.

I think Luke will have his shot working this season and he'll supplant Matt in the starting lineup. I think Matt will have a superb senior season off the bench.

[slower]

I just don't want to see any Matt Jones lay-ups; if it ain't fixed during the first three years, doubt it's fixed now. There are plenty of shots that have a much higher expected value (ie nearly any other shot).

Along the same lines, I'd like to not see any jump-shot attempts by Amile, until/unless he proves that he can hit them.