And Blue Devil Alley Wept...

[WakeDevil]

The terrorists win again.

[oldnavy]

I live in North Carolina. Other posters here live in Georgia, Virginia, Maryland, etc. You live in the State of Paranoia.

Bags can be screened without being forbidden. Metal detectors can detect the presence of a handgun without women not being allowed to carry purses into a football game. Mother/fathers with young children do not have to be relegated to a special line to have diaper bags inspected - they can be put through the x-ray machine like anything else. Not allowing someone to return to the stadium after entering serves no security purpose - it simply requires that they be screened twice.

Benjamin Franklin warned against trading liberty for safety - now we are trading liberty for a false sense of safety.

Not to mention that anyone with half a brain could easily come up with a dozen ways to "sneak" in a weapon if so inclined.

These rules like a lot of so called "safety" rules are short sighted and do nothing to improve security. Only the people who play by the rules will keep to the rules.

They do serve the purpose of giving the rule makers a sense of importance and accomplishment which explains how we get so many of these ineffective and unnecessary rules in the first place.

[oldnavy]

I knew my response wouldn't be a popular one. I agree that bags could be screened instead of forbidden, but there are trade-offs. The cost of x-ray machines is one trade-off. The increased time waiting in line to have bags inspected another. I have no idea why they are not allowing re-entry rather than just re-screen. Moreover, there are many museums and tourist sites throughout the world that forbid bags. Duke is not unique. I'm not sure what liberty we are giving up by increasing public safety. I don't remember reading anything about carrying bags anywhere you want in the Constitution and I know I've been asked to put my backpack and my wife's purse in lockers outside venues in this country and around the world. My point was more that people seem to be whining about relatively minor inconveniences. I don't agree that efforts to increase safety equate to a false sense of safety. Since you asked, I have lived in Pennsylvania, North Carolina (while at Duke), Maryland, and Florida. Currently I live in the real world.

How much money would you be willing to lose for me to prove you wrong? I promise you that I could EASILY produce any item (or reasonable facsimile) that you feel concerned about coming in through the gates of WW inside WW at kick off on any game day of your choice.

Of course, I am NOT going to do this, but I make this statement to get you to think about it for a second or two, and not just accept that the screening measures that are in place provide you, me or anyone security from those who are determined to do harm.

I've been through real security check points many, many times before often with a 240 cal SAR pointed at me... what Duke is doing will not increase security at all. It will just make the determined evil doer think about 1 minute longer on how to do his or her evil.

Real security measure would be looked upon as draconian by just about everyone on this board, including me.

[Indoor66]

Not to mention that anyone with half a brain could easily come up with a dozen ways to "sneak" in a weapon if so inclined.

These rules like a lot of so called "safety" rules are short sighted and do nothing to improve security. Only the people who play by the rules will keep to the rules.

They do serve the purpose of giving the rule makers a sense of importance and accomplishment which explains how we get so many of these ineffective and unnecessary rules in the first place.

Sounds like a discussion of TSA!

[OZZIE4DUKE]

It sounds like you need a seat on the BoT - most of the impetus for the increased security in Cameron last year and Wally Wade this year is borne from a single trustee saying "what if?" THEN, Duke hired a private security firm to come up with these policies. That's one of the reasons that the policies seem so out of whack with the reality of the experience of game day, because nobody that gave a hoot about the game day experience was involved in writing the policies.

The "single trustee" you mention is Adam Silver, commissioner of the NBA. He's the one who mandated security be put in place last fall for the basketball games last year and football games this coming season. This tidbit of information came to me in a phone call yesterday with a member of the administration while discussing this topic and tailgating. He, or she, also told me that the mandate came with no extra funding (typical of government mandates, but let's not get into public policy territory) and that the athletic department had to foot the bill for the metal detectors last basketball season and forward. The University had to give the athletic department a loan to pay for the security.

Emails sent to this particular individual, and the athletic department personnel in general, are being forwarded to persons in the administration responsible for the wanker policy. Mike Craig, Kevin White and more are included in the forwarding. Emails directly to those individuals could also be sent.

Personally, I think the purse policy and especially the no reentry policy are over-reaching the bounds of common sense. We did run into the small purse policy last September when we went to a Charlotte Panther game (I don't root for any team called carolina, hence the Charlotte Panthers, Raleigh Hurricanes, etc.). Fortunately, another lady walking back to our remote parking lot told us that my significant other's purse was too large and wouldn't be allowed into the stadium. So instead of an extra 2 miles to walk, we only had 100 yards back to our car.

Perhaps a mass exodus protest at the end of the first half of the NCCU game on Sept. 3rd would make a loud enough statement without hurting our team's on the field performance. I certainly hope that we can beat them without the 12th man's help.

[BLPOG]

I think all the important points have already been made, but I'd like to get on the record as well stating that this policy is terrible. It's security theater, nothing more than window dressing, and it's a huge inconvenience. The evidence suggests it is a attempt to turn Duke fans upside down and shake them until all the change falls out of their pockets (just as they do to students), which is insulting and ill-conceived given that there will be fewer fans available to shake. Worrying about terrorism is an irrational activity borne of bad information or bad reasoning.

Despite what we see in the news these days, violent crime and terrorism have been on the decline for decades. I know, it can be hard to believe, but the numbers don't lie. There's one huge blip in the trend - 9/11/01 - but other than that, even with all the recent shootings and bombings we've heard of in the States and Europe (there is a spike recently, but still downward long-term), the numbers say we're safer. Other world regions (parts of Africa, much of the Middle East) haven't been as lucky (although I suspect the earlier data isn't as good).

Ultimately, it's a matter of preference. We can look at actual attendance to determine revealed preference, and despite people often assuming violence is more likely than it is, the fact that people attend public events shows that they implicitly understand it is not likely and are willing to accept a low risk accompanying an enjoyable activity. The fact that overall attendance at sporting events has been in decline is largely assumed to be due to convenience factors and better home-viewing experiences (easy access to streaming video, big TVs, etc.). If you want people at games, let the fans bring what they want. I'm tired of having to sneak my contraband (typically only a small pocket knife that I always carry) into professional sporting events and not looking forward to this nonsense at Duke.

[left_hook_lacey]

I just wanted to add a couple of thoughts.

A.) I went to quite a lot of games last year at Duke, NC State, UNC, and ECU. They only time I saw the no re-entry policy was at the State-UNC game in Raleigh, but that was right after the Paris Terror attack. Actually, no, I'm misremembering, they actually didn't have a no re-rentry policy, jthey just had lots of extra security/bag searches etc. It took an abnormally long time to get into the game than it did the other games I went to in Raleigh earlier in the year. It makes me wonder if State is considering implementing a similar policy about no re-entry. Seems all that extra security was a big hassle for everyone, including the fans. But I guarentee if you ask the fans, they'll say they would rather put up with the extra security, vs. no re-entry and no bags in.

B.) Someone mentioned up thread that the new suites at WW will have alcohol sales. This is also the case at ECU. I have a close friend that has club level season tickets, and I usually go to a high-profile game or two with him every year. They too, sell alcohol all game long in their club level. Just wondering if anyone knows, how do the state sponsored schools skirt this rule? It seems very elitist to be able to skirt a policy against alcohol sales at state funded colleges, unless you're willing to fork over a little more dough for the club level seating, and then it's somehow not against the rules anymore?



Lefthook

[jimsumner]

Hey Devildeac,

Am I going to be able to get my new stainless steel sternum through the medical detectors?

That could get interesting. "Sir, you'll have to take off your chest."

[77devil]

Hey Devildeac,

Am I going to be able to get my new stainless steel sternum through the medical detectors?

That could get interesting. "Sir, you'll have to take off your chest."

Be prepared for the pat down.

[duke79]

The terrorists win again.

Yea, this is the most infuriating part of the whole "security crackdown" in our society for me. Essentially, .00001% of the population (those people who might hijack or blow up planes or fly them into building or detonate bombs in crowded public areas or cause other harm to innocent people) can inconvenience, in a major way, the 99.9999% of people who are basically law-abiding and decent citizens. Just look at the TSA lines at commercial airports and the ridiculous rules at sporting stadiums (that Duke has now adopted). I'm not sure what better solution there is...other than perhaps we need to do a better job at identifying a head of time those people who are the threat and take unilateral action against them. I know...easier said than done and hard to do legally, at least in this country.

[duke79]

Not to mention that anyone with half a brain could easily come up with a dozen ways to "sneak" in a weapon if so inclined.

These rules like a lot of so called "safety" rules are short sighted and do nothing to improve security. Only the people who play by the rules will keep to the rules.

They do serve the purpose of giving the rule makers a sense of importance and accomplishment which explains how we get so many of these ineffective and unnecessary rules in the first place.

This is VERY true! I agree completely. Didn't the TSA itself do a study where they tried to get guns and knives and other dangerous objects through airport security at a variety of commercial airports and they were 90% successful at evading the security? I believe that is the case. I've always been skeptical at how much good many of the security measures at the airport and other public places really do. It seems like the terrorists and others who want to cause mass harm just figure out other ways to wreak havoc, like the guy in Nice who rented a truck and drove it down a crowded pier, killing 84 people. How do you prevent something like that in the future?

[BLPOG]

This is VERY true! I agree completely. Didn't the TSA itself do a study where they tried to get guns and knives and other dangerous objects through airport security at a variety of commercial airports and they were 90% successful at evading the security? I believe that is the case. I've always been skeptical at how much good many of the security measures at the airport and other public places really do. It seems like the terrorists and others who want to cause mass harm just figure out other ways to wreak havoc, like the guy in Nice who rented a truck and drove it down a crowded pier, killing 84 people. How do you prevent something like that in the future?

The detection failure rate was 95%. I would say more but I don't trust myself to comment further without censure by the mods for crossing into political territory, or at least heavy redaction by the language filter.

[J.Blink]

I can't believe what I am reading in this thread. College campuses and sporting events have been prime targets for terrorists.

Really? Such as?

[rasputin]

Really? Such as?

Well, I'd count the Boston Marathon, for one.

Not that I agree with the policy about bags and re-entry and such.

[AustinDevil]

Just look at ... the ridiculous rules at sporting stadiums (that Duke has now adopted).

I agree with everything in your post except this excerpt. I go to quite a few sporting events, and I have never, ever, not once been subject to the combination of rules that Duke has now adopted. Duke's announcement makes a point of saying that metal detectors are in line with the ACC generally (and specifically mentions UNCheat and FSU on that point), but it is noticeably silent on the other new policies as being in line with anyone else.

[J.Blink]

Well, I'd count the Boston Marathon, for one.

Not that I agree with the policy about bags and re-entry and such.

Boston marathon was the the only sporting event attack that I thought of, but I had taken the original post to mean college sporting events. The only college terrorist event that immediately came to mind was that nut who drove an SUV into the pit at UNC. Probably some I am missing, but I don't think the original statement was accurate!

[ricks68]

Boston marathon was the the only sporting event attack that I thought of, but I had taken the original post to mean college sporting events. The only college terrorist event that immediately came to mind was that nut who drove an SUV into the pit at UNC. Probably some I am missing, but I don't think the original statement was accurate!

But, as you stated in your post above, it was a college terrorist attack that was n-o-t associated with a sporting event.

ricks

[Thurber Whyte]

Every year, the swag at the pregame party for Duke's bowl game includes a clear stadium bag. Its nice that Duke wants to take care of its fans when they go to any stadium other than Wallace Wade.

So the new security regulations are to enhance public safety:

To increase security in a large crowd setting and provide a better entry and game experience for all guests, no bags or purses of any kind will be allowed to enter the stadium on game days with the following exceptions:

• Duke Stores merchandise bags with receipt for purchase...

I'm happy to see greed trumps public safety.

Step 1: Go to the Duke Store before the game.
Step 2: Buy a 50¢ refrigerator magnet and ask for the largest bag they have.
Step 4: Fill bag with car keys, sunscreen, wallet, telephone, sunglasses, kleenex, camera, hat, gloves, gum, meds, hygiene products, pocket-sized umbrella, child care items, a Chihuahua, fire extinguisher, enema kit, astrolabe, jumper cables and a copy of the Physician’s Desk Reference.
Step 5: Proudly display these items together with the Duke Store receipt as you pass through security.
Step 6: Attach the magnet to the side of the metal detector once you are through.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Every year, the swag at the pregame party for Duke's bowl game includes a clear stadium bag. Its nice that Duke wants to take care of its fans when they go to any stadium other than Wallace Wade.



Step 1: Go to the Duke Store before the game.
Step 2: Buy a 50¢ refrigerator magnet and ask for the largest bag they have.
Step 4: Fill bag with car keys, sunscreen, wallet, telephone, sunglasses, kleenex, camera, hat, gloves, gum, meds, hygiene products, pocket-sized umbrella, child care items, a Chihuahua, fire extinguisher, enema kit, astrolabe, jumper cables and a copy of the Physician’s Desk Reference.
Step 5: Proudly display these items together with the Duke Store receipt as you pass through security.
Step 6: Attach the magnet to the side of the metal detector once you are through.

You ever tried getting gum off of a chihuahua?!

[devildeac]

So, they're worried about "terrorists" and I guess potentially long lines to enter WW but will be perfectly willing to take the time to have you open your Duke-purchased gear and then take additional time to inspect the receipt. Yea, I get it. Bastards.

Every year, the swag at the pregame party for Duke's bowl game includes a clear stadium bag. Its nice that Duke wants to take care of its fans when they go to any stadium other than Wallace Wade.



Step 1: Go to the Duke Store before the game.
Step 2: Buy a 50¢ refrigerator magnet and ask for the largest bag they have.
Step 4: Fill bag with car keys, sunscreen, wallet, telephone, sunglasses, kleenex, camera, hat, gloves, gum, meds, hygiene products, pocket-sized umbrella, child care items, a Chihuahua, fire extinguisher, enema kit, astrolabe, jumper cables and a copy of the Physician’s Desk Reference.
Step 5: Proudly display these items together with the Duke Store receipt as you pass through security.
Step 6: Attach the magnet to the side of the metal detector once you are through.

What happened to Step 3?

Will the Duke Store receipt suffice for "proof of purchase" for all the items you mentioned? IOW, will security (be smart enough to) pull you aside and verify each line item on your receipt "matches" all your "purchases" or do you think simply flashing the receipt will be sufficient to gain entry?

Good thoughts.