Albany Game Canceled (Protest over HB2)

[alteran]

Or deeply held beliefs.

Idiots, bigots, stubborn, all words being used to describe the folks that support HB2... name calling doesn't further the discussion, or is that the intent?

Tolerance as defined in Websters: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own.

Simple fix, all that needs to be done is change the state leadership via the vote in the next election.

You'd actually have to change the legislature. But the legislature is pretty much vote-proof currently. That's probably as much as I can say under DBR guidelines.

The fix will be anything but simple.

[oldnavy]

You'd actually have to change the legislature. But the legislature is pretty much vote-proof currently. That's probably as much as I can say under DBR guidelines.

The fix will be anything but simple.

No, it's very simple.

It might not be easy to do, but if the majority of the state disagree with the laws being passed, then the majority can remove the legislature and replace them with folks that will pass laws that are more agreeable to the majority.

Right now the elected officials have passed HB2. If it is offensive to the majority of the state it can be overturned with a new state congress. Or, if it is deemed unconstitutional, the courts will rule it as such. Boycotts by the NBA, NY, etc.. are going to have little to zero effect. This is one of the rare cases where money isn't going to be the driving force IMO.

The question in my mind really is as much about the right of the state verses the right of the federal government... a fight that has been going on in some form or another since 1776.

[oldnavy]

Looks like the Charlotte City Council got more that they bargained for when they opened that can of worms. Everything was just fine with the NBA until then. Maybe the NBA will cancel all the Hornets home games, too. What do you think?

That or force them to move out of NC.

Moving an All Star game isn't that difficult, but if they truly want to be "principled" about this, then they need to move the Hornets...

But, I doubt that the NBA feels "THAT" strongly about HB2...

Who wants to take a guess at what the NCAA will do if anything about tournament games in NC???

[ncexnyc]

Or deeply held beliefs.

Idiots, bigots, stubborn, all words being used to describe the folks that support HB2... name calling doesn't further the discussion, or is that the intent?

Tolerance as defined in Websters: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own.

Simple fix, all that needs to be done is change the state leadership via the vote in the next election.

This whole mess reminds me of the story about the lemmings. They were headed down the road to an enlightened society. Unfortunately for them not one of the lemmings stood up and said we're actually on a road to a cliff.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Or deeply held beliefs.

Idiots, bigots, stubborn, all words being used to describe the folks that support HB2... name calling doesn't further the discussion, or is that the intent?

Tolerance as defined in Websters: sympathy or indulgence for beliefs or practices differing from or conflicting with one's own.

Simple fix, all that needs to be done is change the state leadership via the vote in the next election.

Stubborn is a fact, not name calling. State legislature is sticking to their guns despite mounting economic cost to the state. Most folks I know are unimpressed with the effect that is having in order to make a point that not everyone in the state agrees with.

And yes, in the cases involving civil rights, the government can step in - that is far from something new.

[alteran]

No, it's very simple.

It might not be easy to do, but if the majority of the state disagree with the laws being passed, then the majority can remove the legislature and replace them with folks that will pass laws that are more agreeable to the majority.

Actually, not true. In 2012, a majority voted to change the legislature. Yet the legislature retained not just a majority, but a supermajority.

I expect the same thing to happen this year.

[oldnavy]

Stubborn is a fact, not name calling. State legislature is sticking to their guns despite mounting economic cost to the state. Most folks I know are unimpressed with the effect that is having in order to make a point that not everyone in the state agrees with.

And yes, in the cases involving civil rights, the government can step in - that is far from something new.

Find me one thing that everyone in the state can agree on and I will eat my laptop.

The courts can change laws and have been doing so since we formed the three branches which is why I said that. I am not claiming it to be something new... ?

The ridiculously high NC tax code has and will cost this state so much more than HB2 could ever cost, yet I hear very little uproar over the tax issue.

This isn't an economic issue at all. It is an issue that cuts MUCH deeper than peoples pocket books. It strikes at the foundation of their belief system.

Like I said, the NBA and the Governor if NY are making a "GESTURE"... if they are principled enough, the NBA will boycott NC altogether which would mean moving the Bobcats out next year before one more dollar is spent in NC. Will they really put their money where their mouth is??

The law was passed because the majority of lawmakers agreed with what it says. They had to have known that there would be backlash given the powerful lobby that supports LGBT issues. So, if they walk back on their "principles" because a few outside business opportunities are lost, then they really didn't believe what they claim to believe.

Will the bill get overturned at some point? My guess is yes, it will get reworked in some shape or fashion.

And, the funny thing about calling someone stubborn is that it is so easy to flip it. Couldn't it be said of the group that refuses to accept HB2 is being stubborn in their beliefs as well?

[oldnavy]

Actually, not true. In 2012, a majority voted to change the legislature. Yet the legislature retained not just a majority, but a supermajority.

I expect the same thing to happen this year.

I am talking about voting out of office your representatives and replacing them district by district with people that hold your same values and ideology.

It is a very simple concept. You don't agree with X, so you vote for Y...

If Y has more votes, Y is in and X is out. Repeat across the state until there are more Y's than X's.

The application and execution of this simple concept may be quite difficult, but it is a very simple concept.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Find me one thing that everyone in the state can agree on and I will eat my laptop.

The courts can change laws and have been doing so since we formed the three branches which is why I said that. I am not claiming it to be something new... ?

The ridiculously high NC tax code has and will cost this state so much more than HB2 could ever cost, yet I hear very little uproar over the tax issue.

This isn't an economic issue at all. It is an issue that cuts MUCH deeper than peoples pocket books. It strikes at the foundation of their belief system.

Like I said, the NBA and the Governor if NY are making a "GESTURE"... if they are principled enough, the NBA will boycott NC altogether which would mean moving the Bobcats out next year before one more dollar is spent in NC. Will they really put their money where their mouth is??

The law was passed because the majority of lawmakers agreed with what it says. They had to have known that there would be backlash given the powerful lobby that supports LGBT issues. So, if they walk back on their "principles" because a few outside business opportunities are lost, then they really didn't believe what they claim to believe.

Will the bill get overturned at some point? My guess is yes, it will get reworked in some shape or fashion.

And, the funny thing about calling someone stubborn is that it is so easy to flip it. Couldn't it be said of the group that refuses to accept HB2 is being stubborn in their beliefs as well?

Except that "belief system" (religion) ought to be a nonfactor in any legislation. Civil rights protect us from one another's religious beliefs, whatever they may be.

And you are right, it isn't an economic issue. It is a civil rights issue that is being highlighted by the economic impact.

The impact on my small business (or the Albany or Duke basketball team) is negligible compared to those who the bill actually affects.

[oldnavy]

Except that "belief system" (religion) ought to be a nonfactor in any legislation. Civil rights protect us from one another's religious beliefs, whatever they may be.

And you are right, it isn't an economic issue. It is a civil rights issue that is being highlighted by the economic impact.

The impact on my small business (or the Albany or Duke basketball team) is negligible compared to those who the bill actually affects.

This isn't what the Founding Fathers thought. Should I pull a dozen or so quotes from a dozen or so signers of the Declaration of Independence that clearly rebuke your claim?

[NSDukeFan]

I am talking about voting out of office your representatives and replacing them district by district with people that hold your same values and ideology.

It is a very simple concept. You don't agree with X, so you vote for Y...

If Y has more votes, Y is in and X is out. Repeat across the state until there are more Y's than X's.

The application and execution of this simple concept may be quite difficult, but it is a very simple concept.

Usually, each individual only has one vote, so they simply can't repeat across the state. This makes the application and execution very difficult unless you know everyone and can get them all to vote the way you would like.

[Indoor66]

Usually, each individual only has one vote, so they simply can't repeat across the state. This makes the application and execution very difficult unless you know everyone and can get them all to vote the way you would like.

Isn't that the "democracy" part of a representative democracy form of government? You first have to win in the marketplace of ideas before you change the votes. Redefining civil rights does not redefine value structures. Persuasive arguments in discussion does.

[oldnavy]

Usually, each individual only has one vote, so they simply can't repeat across the state. This makes the application and execution very difficult unless you know everyone and can get them all to vote the way you would like.

Exactly. One person, one vote. Convince enough folks to agree with you and then you can change things... simple!

[Reilly]

Find me one thing that everyone in the state can agree on and I will eat my laptop ...

Roy's non-use of timeouts is perplexing?

[oldnavy]

Roy's non-use of timeouts is perplexing?

Hahaha!

Got me, pass the salt!

[-jk]

This discussion has gone off the policy rails again.

-jk