Duke announces non-conference schedule

[sagegrouse]

In the past, Duke has sometimes scheduled a game in or near a senior player's home. Example: playing Oregon in Portland during Singler's senior year. This year, no senior game in Dallas for Matt. Could perhaps have scheduled SMU.

UNLV in Las Vegas for Chase Jeter?

[sagegrouse]

But as a college basketball fan, I miss big matchups in home arenas. I liked playing Kansas and Danny Manning in Allen Fieldhouse, and UoA in Tucson, and UCLA at Pauley, etc. and I enjoyed hosting LSU and Shaq in mid Feb, and Kansas, and other major conference rivals.

Coach K has a long memory, and so do I. At Arizona in 1991, Greg Koubek hits a three-point shot in OT that would have won the game; the refs only awarded a "two," even though he was well beyond the line. We lost in the second OT. I don't think K is interested in playing an away game in the PAC 12 again.

[jimsumner]

Coach K has a long memory, and so do I. At Arizona in 1991, Greg Koubek hits a three-point shot in OT that would have won the game; the refs only awarded a "two," even though he was well beyond the line. We lost in the second OT. I don't think K is interested in playing an away game in the PAC 12 again.

The officiating was so bad in a 1978 Duke loss at Southern Cal that Duke actually received a formal letter of apology.

[Dev11]

In the past, Duke has sometimes scheduled a game in or near a senior player's home. Example: playing Oregon in Portland during Singler's senior year. This year, no senior game in Dallas for Matt. Could perhaps have scheduled SMU.

I believe the stipulation is that you get such a game if the team hasn't traveled to your home region while you've been in school. Matt Jones has some decent memories of Houston from 2015.

[dyedwab]

A lot of us get the issue. But the issue with your issue is that those teams don't exist anymore. Today's Shaquille O'Neal doesn't stay at LSU for 3 years, and 2-time Conference POY Danny Manning doesn't stay at Kansas for his senior season and the Duke game in Allen. No chance.

The times have fundamentally changed. Teams don't have the sort of continuity ("Is that guy still in school?!") that OPK old man rant's about above. So you're left with scheduling games, well in advance of the year it will be played, with no insight into a team's makeup. And you're left with games like Florida and UNLV in comparative sorry states to where they were when they were lined up. Granted, Florida is at a neutral site. But UNLV is in Vegas - you can't tell me that's not essentially a true road game (although ESPN, and some nitpickers, will point out it's not on UNLV's campus and thus technically neutral).

So back to those hystorical games you noted, if those games are scheduled without those hypothetically lost players (Shaq / Manning), and LSU or Kansas gets throttled by Duke because they lost key pieces to the team (note: they both lost anyway with those players), then those respective teams face a different sort of backlash - humiliation and/or fan irritation. You're damned if you schedule them and damned if you don't.

Then there's the issue of revenue. I don't know exactly how it works, but I imagine the marquee matchups get major money for playing at major arenas (and not on campus). Shirking those kind of dollars causes issues athletic-department wide. There was no Title IX back when Manning was at Kansas (I presume; and even if it did, I assume the amount of sports offered back then wasn't quite as robust - but I could be wrong).

And the list of issues goes on and on.

To simplify the matter(s), I liken the whole thing to high stakes poker. The two best poker players in the world don't want to play each other. Why should they - it's high risk, low reward? The only possible outcome is one of the best loses and the other remains the best (which he/she already was). Instead, the path of least resistance is to play other non-best players - this way they can both win. Now once in a while, in a tournament setting or in a major headliner, you'll get to see the best play the best - and then they square off. But in the meantime / "normal" time, why should they? Look at boxing too for similarities.

Frankly, I agree with you more than I don't. I guess I just look at the whole thing as this is the current state of things. If someone out there is able to create some construct that is able to pit Duke (or any major power) vs another behemoth on campus, with regularity, I'd unquestioningly support such a thing. And based on what others here (and the media) continually moan about, I'd imagine countless others would too.

So why hasn't it happened?

- Chillin

Let me separate issues here - I understand everything you are saying. But this isn't about the fact the we don't have Danny Manning for 4 years or Shaq for 3. That is entirely separate from scheduling games at opponents home arenas. Florida and UNLV don't fit that model here. I understand it, but I lament it, and wish we could schedule more than one high major game a year at an OOC opponent.
"
Also - Title IX has existed since 1972 - it certainly existed during Manning's era. And, yes, teams get more $ from big arenas at neutral sites - I mean back a decade and a half ago, Duke basically operated the MSG games as home games (literally). And the amount of TV $$$ is the dominant factor in all college basketball scheduling. But my guess is that ESPN would love to have Duke play Kansas at Allen Field House, and promote the living hell out of it, and then have Kansas do a return trip to Cameron the next year and promote the living hell out that.

And let's not be naive. Duke (and a few other programs) can pretty much do what they want when it come to scheduling. We could play anyone we wanted, any time we wanted, and any where we wanted during the OOC part of the schedule. And ESPN or CBS or FOX Sports would gladly cover the game. But the facts are the we used to schedule OOC road games in other teams gyms and we don't anymore. That's understandable for many reasons. I wish we were willing to change that.

[Olympic Fan]

The officiating was so bad in a 1978 Duke loss at Southern Cal that Duke actually received a formal letter of apology.

Just to follow up on this ...

Back in the old days (meaning the '40s and '50s), officiating was incredibly biased. Teams used local officials who protected the home teams.

Back when Everett Case dominated Tobacco Road, it worked both ways -- there is a reason no outside team won the Dixie Classic (and some great teams lost there) -- Case picked the officials. But the same reason has a lot to do with the fact that Case's teams always had problems in New York City. Duke saw that as late as 1968, when two New York officials took Duke out of a second-round NIT game with St. Peter's.

Over the years -- and with the growth of TV -- officiating got less biased in most of the country. But the West Coast (and also Hawaii) were notoriously slow to catch on. Playing a Pac 8/10/12 team on the road was always a gamble. The Pac 8/10/12 long had a rule forbidding the trading of officials -- in much of the country, the visiting team brought in their league's officials for big matchups ... but not in the Pac 8/10/12. You played a big game on a Pac 8/10-12 court and you were going to get jobbed (as Duke did at Southern Cal in '78 and at Arizona in 1991).

I'm not sure when that changed. In fact, I don't know for sure that it has ... although I think it probably has.

Not all that germane to the current debate about whether K ought to schedule more marque matchups home-and-home, just a historical note about the practice.

[msdukie]

Elon game is at Elon in the Greensboro Coliseum. Front page article is incorrect.

[Neals384]

I believe the stipulation is that you get such a game if the team hasn't traveled to your home region while you've been in school. Matt Jones has some decent memories of Houston from 2015.

Thanks, Dev11, how could I forget. Still, Houston is a long spit from De Soto, and many of Matt's hometown fans probably couldn't get tickets for that one.

[Eternal Outlaw]

Just to follow up on this ...

Back in the old days (meaning the '40s and '50s), officiating was incredibly biased. Teams used local officials who protected the home teams.

Back when Everett Case dominated Tobacco Road, it worked both ways -- there is a reason no outside team won the Dixie Classic (and some great teams lost there) -- Case picked the officials. But the same reason has a lot to do with the fact that Case's teams always had problems in New York City. Duke saw that as late as 1968, when two New York officials took Duke out of a second-round NIT game with St. Peter's.

Over the years -- and with the growth of TV -- officiating got less biased in most of the country. But the West Coast (and also Hawaii) were notoriously slow to catch on. Playing a Pac 8/10/12 team on the road was always a gamble. The Pac 8/10/12 long had a rule forbidding the trading of officials -- in much of the country, the visiting team brought in their league's officials for big matchups ... but not in the Pac 8/10/12. You played a big game on a Pac 8/10-12 court and you were going to get jobbed (as Duke did at Southern Cal in '78 and at Arizona in 1991).

I'm not sure when that changed. In fact, I don't know for sure that it has ... although I think it probably has.

Not all that germane to the current debate about whether K ought to schedule more marque matchups home-and-home, just a historical note about the practice.

Nothing has changed for the Pac, surprised anyone comes to the West coast to play, they sure aren't scared to screw people. Oklahoma in Eugene and more recently Wisconsin got screwed at Arizona State. These in football were they say one loss can end your season.

[gam7]

100 days until Countdown to Craziness.

[jimsumner]

There was one particular Pac 8/10/12 official named Booker Turner. Teams visiting the West Coast did not want to see Booker Turner show up.

[Spanarkel]

It looks like the "new" information, based on what was knows is --

Bill and Mary on Wed., Nov. 23 at Duke
Tennessee State on Mon., Dec. 19 at Duke
Elon on Wed., Dec. 21 at Greensboro

Major conference matches are --
Kansas (11/15) in NYC
Penn State (11/19) at Mohegan Sun Arena in CT
Cincinnati(AAC) or URI (CAA) (11/20) ditto
Michigan State (11/29) at Duke
Florida (12/06) in NYC
UNLV (12/10) in Las Vegas (OK, Mt. West is not "major")

URI is in the A-10(much better hoops league than the CAA)

[sagegrouse]

URI is in the A-10(much better hoops league than the CAA)

Thanks -- that's better. I looked it up and must have mis-keyed or mis-read the results.

[SlapTheFloor]

Any idea when tickets for the UNLV game will go on sale?

[gep]

Any idea when tickets for the UNLV game will go on sale?

I have the same question... not only that, but I'd like tickets in the Duke section. I posted on the Ticket Exchange board, and got a nice PM from one poster giving me all kinds of hints on getting tickets.

Any other ideas / information on the UNLV tickets would be very much appreciated.

[gep]

I have the same question... not only that, but I'd like tickets in the Duke section. I posted on the Ticket Exchange board, and got a nice PM from one poster giving me all kinds of hints on getting tickets.

Any other ideas / information on the UNLV tickets would be very much appreciated.

FYI... Duke / UNLV basketball tickets are available at a lot of those ticket sites. Interestingly, neither Duke or UNLV sites have tickets for the game yet(?) that I could find. My guess is that the game is neither school's "home game"? Also, game time is TBA.

[DU82]

FYI... Duke / UNLV basketball tickets are available at a lot of those ticket sites. Interestingly, neither Duke or UNLV sites have tickets for the game yet(?) that I could find. My guess is that the game is neither school's "home game"? Also, game time is TBA.

They went on sale today for Iron Dukes.

[Blue in the Face]

Marist replaces Albany in the hall of fame tip-off game 11/11.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/spo...e95966162.html

[SCMatt33]

Marist replaces Albany in the hall of fame tip-off game 11/11.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/spo...e95966162.html

This always seemed like the logical choice. Since Duke was already playing Grand Canyon, that left Brown and Marist as possibilities. Given that both Brown and Albany were scheduled to play Cincy, Brown would have had to give up the in-state game with Rhode Island to make that swap work. Marist will end up swapping either Rhode Island or Penn State, but I imagine that it will be Penn State who gets the Albany game since that was the one Marist had on the 11th originally.

[Olympic Fan]

The only surprising thing about this is that Duke will now open against Marist on Nov. 11, then play Grand Canyon on the 12th. Originally, Grand Canyon was the opener and Albany was on Nov. 12.

Duke has never before played either Marist or Grand Canyon ... Maine (Dec. 3) and Tennessee State (Dec. 19) are also first-time Duke foes.

By my count, that means Duke will have played 223 different division one programs over the years. My count may be a bit shaky because I had to filter out the non-Division One programs we've faced -- there were a lot of them in the pre-WWII era (I THINK just two in the Krzyzewski era, BYU-Hawaii in 1986 and Chaminade in 1997). In the near future, when I have more time, I'll try and make a list to Division One programs we've never faced.

Also, keep an eye out. The complete schedule ought to be released by the ACC in the next 10 days.