Summer of 2016: NBA Offseason Thread

[moonpie23]

how much better does dirk make the dubs?

[CDu]

how much better does dirk make the dubs?

Nowitzki doesn't fit what the Warriors do at all. He doesn't defend, and he is glacial on offense. Golden State's offense is more of a motion and ball movement offense, whereas Nowitzki's skillset is more of a high post player.

I mean, he would be a better version of Mo Speights, but he wouldn't really make sense to me there.

[BD80]

With Affalo and Williams opting out, and a lot of cap space, completely agree.

Doesn't the salary cap increase more this year than ever? Players are going to get a bigger share of the pie. I think every team has enough cap space to give a max contract. However, owners aren't necessarily going to be willing to spend the cap, as there may not be return on investment. Some mediocre players will get huge money as the market corrects itself. Teams looking to make a "splash" will be able to spend freely, but not every team will.

[CDu]

Doesn't the salary cap increase more this year than ever? Players are going to get a bigger share of the pie. I think every team has enough cap space to give a max contract. However, owners aren't necessarily going to be willing to spend the cap, as there may not be return on investment. Some mediocre players will get huge money as the market corrects itself. Teams looking to make a "splash" will be able to spend freely, but not every team will.

The cap increased to $94 million. That does not mean everyone can offer a max deal (especially since the max increases proportional to the cap). Cleveland, for example, is over the cap. Five others have only a few million in cap space. Only half the teams in the league will have even $20 million in cap space.

[BD80]

The cap increased to $94 million. That does not mean everyone can offer a max deal (especially since the max increases proportional to the cap). Cleveland, for example, is over the cap. Five others have only a few million in cap space. Only half the teams in the league will have even $20 million in cap space.

Last year the cap was $70 million. This year's luxury tax line is $113 million - up from $85 million. The Celtics have $53 million in cap space, the Lakers and Knicks $30 million.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16...hit-94-million

[luburch]

I don't understand at all how anyone could think Teague or Hill is on par with a #12 overall pick.

I'm sure Utah looked at who they could get at PG with the 12th pick, looked around the league at FA PGs and then decided this trade was the best option. I have to agree with them. Utah adds Hill to an already solid roster while they wait for Exum to get back to 100%.

[CDu]

Last year the cap was $70 million. This year's luxury tax line is $113 million - up from $85 million. The Celtics have $53 million in cap space, the Lakers and Knicks $30 million.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/16...hit-94-million

The luxury tax line is irrelevant. You can't spend to the tax line on free agents, only to the cap line which is $94 million.

The Celtics have $23 million in cap space right now (they have $52 million in contracts, $19 million in cap holds). Now, if they waive their rights to Zeller, Turner, Sullinger, and Datome, they would get to almost $42 million in cap space. If they then waive Amir Johnson before July 3, they would get to $53 million in cap space. But would they really gut their frontcourt so thoroughly just to be players in this weak free agent class? Especially when the new cap level means that max contracts go up as well (a max guy is starting at $26 million now)?

There are maybe 12-15 teams that can actually sign a max free agent this summer. Of those, only a handful are actually interesting destinations in terms of current roster composition.

[luvdahops]

I think Rose lost a LITTLE bit of the athleticism, especially the leaping ability. He still is very quick, but he doesn't have quite the same bounciness or top-end vertical anymore. He is still plenty athletic to be an effective player, just not as effective but effective as before. But I absolutely agree that I think the biggest problem for Rose is that he lost his edge. He's still a very good athlete and occasionally you see the flashes of it. But he doesn't go hard to the rim anymore, and that was what made him great. It is how he drew fouls and got free points. It is how he scored baskets. It is how he intimidated defenses. He doesn't have the game to not be attacking the rim.

His game was always likely to age poorly, but the injuries and the corresponding fear that he's developed have expedited the decline.

I agree that the trade was probably a best-case scenario for the Bulls. They get a legitimate starting center (and one who plays defense!) and a prospect. And they still have flexibility to go after free agents this summer and next. And maybe Grant develops into a playmaking combo guard with time and experience and playing in a more open offense.

I get the move by the Knicks too. Take the gamble that Rose just needed a change of scenery. If it works, it's a steal. If it doesn't, well, you didn't lose a ton anyway. Heck, they can probably get a not-too-awful facsimile of Lopez in Joakim Noah.

This is spot on. Rose still has above average athleticism, even for a PG in today's NBA. But the fear of sustaining another major injury means he attacks less and is considerably less efficient offensively as a result. He also doesn't work as hard as he once did on the defensive end, especially on pick and rolls, though he still has the tools to be effective as a defender. And without denigrating at all what Rose went through, his obsession with not risking another major injury undoubtedly wore on his teammates and coaches, not to mention Bulls fans and media, over the course of last season. Even minor injuries seemed to linger longer than is typical, and he took a handful of games off for "general soreness". I'm still a fan of the guy, and I hope the change of scenery will also clear his head and allow for a truly fresh start and resurgence. But that was likely never going to happen if he stayed in Chicago.

Lopez is a perfectly fine replacement for Noah, and probably a better fit than Noah or Gasol for the offense Hoiberg wants to run. Calderon has a few years left as an effective rotation player, and Grant was the guy they wanted in last year's draft. His rookie season was underwhelming, but a lot of that can be attributed to the triangle offense being a poor fit for what Grant does best (he was lethal in pick and rolls at ND).

[Billy Dat]

I think it is one of those trades that makes sense for both teams.

The Knicks needed a star to pair with Melo, and stars are hard to come by when you are short on assets. So they are taking a relatively low-cost gamble that Rose can be that star again, or at least close to it. My guess is that they will try to sign Joakim Noah to do the dirty work that Lopez did. With Melo, Rose, and Prozingis, Noah will happily not shoot. And they made a trade that is roughly cost-neutral next year and is cost-saving thereafter unless they resign Rose.

But teams took steps towards changing their team's fortunes. It may or may not work out, but I think the deal makes sense for both sides.

The Knicks-Bulls trade looks like a lot of bells and whistles that will end up meaning nothing.

The Knicks signed Robin Lopez before the knew how good Porzingis was going to be, especially as a rim protector and a rebounder (he still has to grow, but the potential is there) and that the shift in league style would allow for him to be a "Stretch 5". As a result, he and Lopez didn't really mesh on the court. That made Lopez expendable and his contract, while reasonable, still runs for a few years which somewhat limits flexibility - although the exploding caps gives everyone flexibility until they start doling out crazy contracts - with the exception of the new champs who will still be over the cap once it expands. Anyway, that made Lopez less of an essential piece. Before I move on from him, I think he's great. He's a good dude who plays hard and is a great chemistry guy in that he's offbeat and all about winning. I am sad to see him go from that perspective, he was very easy to root for.

The Knicks needed a PG and Rose is all that you have all already said - big name, former MVP, banged-up but still has some elite skills, etc. Most important, his huge salary comes off the books in one year. So, I don't see it as any more than a one year experiment. The potential fun for me, as a Knicks fan, is that we just brought in Jeff Hornacek who has a reputation for building innovative offenses around his available talent. In Melo, Rose and Porzingis, there are a lot of possibilities. Rose isn't a great shooter. If he plays great and warrants a large contract next year, cross that bridge when it comes.

It's hard to know how radical of a rebuild the Knicks are in the middle of because there is a with-Melo scenario and a without-Melo scenario. Without knowing which is in play, it's hard to guess, beyond PORZINGIS, what else lies ahead for the team, and that include Phil Jackson's continued involvement. I am glad that they didn't trade any draft picks.

[CDu]

The Knicks signed Robin Lopez before the knew how good Porzingis was going to be, especially as a rim protector and a rebounder (he still has to grow, but the potential is there) and that the shift in league style would allow for him to be a "Stretch 5". As a result, he and Lopez didn't really mesh on the court. That made Lopez expendable and his contract, while reasonable, still runs for a few years which somewhat limits flexibility - although the exploding caps gives everyone flexibility until they start doling out crazy contracts - with the exception of the new champs who will still be over the cap once it expands. Anyway, that made Lopez less of an essential piece. Before I move on from him, I think he's great. He's a good dude who plays hard and is a great chemistry guy in that he's offbeat and all about winning. I am sad to see him go from that perspective, he was very easy to root for.

The Knicks needed a PG and Rose is all that you have all already said - big name, former MVP, banged-up but still has some elite skills, etc. Most important, his huge salary comes off the books in one year. So, I don't see it as any more than a one year experiment. The potential fun for me, as a Knicks fan, is that we just brought in Jeff Hornacek who has a reputation for building innovative offenses around his available talent. In Melo, Rose and Porzingis, there are a lot of possibilities. Rose isn't a great shooter. If he plays great and warrants a large contract next year, cross that bridge when it comes.

It's hard to know how radical of a rebuild the Knicks are in the middle of because there is a with-Melo scenario and a without-Melo scenario. Without knowing which is in play, it's hard to guess, beyond PORZINGIS, what else lies ahead for the team, and that include Phil Jackson's continued involvement. I am glad that they didn't trade any draft picks.

Right, I think the key on this deal is as follows:

Knicks: take a one-year gamble on finding a superstar to pair with Carmelo and help bridge the gap to the Porzingis era. If it works out, great. If not, your books are even cleaner for next summer's free agency without Grant and Lopez on them.

Bulls: start the retooling effort one year sooner. Butler and Rose weren't going to work together (both need the ball too much, neither is a shooter, and frankly Rose stunk anyway), and they weren't going to re-sign Rose next summer. So rather than wasting another year of Butler's prime (and his reasonable contract), they made the trade. And they get a reasonably-priced center who fits what the team wants to do and fills a void (they had no interior presence once Noah fell apart). And they got a prospect who may or may not pan out. But the biggest thing was that they got to start the next era of Bulls basketball one year sooner, and didn't burden themselves with any problems in doing so.

[duke74]

The Knicks signed Robin Lopez before the knew how good Porzingis was going to be, especially as a rim protector and a rebounder (he still has to grow, but the potential is there) and that the shift in league style would allow for him to be a "Stretch 5". As a result, he and Lopez didn't really mesh on the court. That made Lopez expendable and his contract, while reasonable, still runs for a few years which somewhat limits flexibility - although the exploding caps gives everyone flexibility until they start doling out crazy contracts - with the exception of the new champs who will still be over the cap once it expands. Anyway, that made Lopez less of an essential piece. Before I move on from him, I think he's great. He's a good dude who plays hard and is a great chemistry guy in that he's offbeat and all about winning. I am sad to see him go from that perspective, he was very easy to root for.

The Knicks needed a PG and Rose is all that you have all already said - big name, former MVP, banged-up but still has some elite skills, etc. Most important, his huge salary comes off the books in one year. So, I don't see it as any more than a one year experiment. The potential fun for me, as a Knicks fan, is that we just brought in Jeff Hornacek who has a reputation for building innovative offenses around his available talent. In Melo, Rose and Porzingis, there are a lot of possibilities. Rose isn't a great shooter. If he plays great and warrants a large contract next year, cross that bridge when it comes.

It's hard to know how radical of a rebuild the Knicks are in the middle of because there is a with-Melo scenario and a without-Melo scenario. Without knowing which is in play, it's hard to guess, beyond PORZINGIS, what else lies ahead for the team, and that include Phil Jackson's continued involvement. I am glad that they didn't trade any draft picks.

As a fellow Knicks fan, I agree with everything here. I'll miss the Robin/Brook buzz when the Knicks played the Nots (not a typo). I also liked Robin.

Looking forward to Phil reuniting with his fiancée in LA. Leave it at that.

[GGLC]

George Hill is quite underrated (dare I say for some of the same reasons that Matt Jones is underrated in certain camps).

[luburch]

Pacers make another trade. The 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder for Thadedus Young.

[duke74]

Pacers make another trade. The 20th pick and a future 2nd rounder for Thadedus Young.

Young was good for the Nets last year. Good support for Brook Lopez.

If they hadn't made that ridiculous trade with the Celts (with the unprotected first round picks), this would have been unnecessary.

[CDu]

Young was good for the Nets last year. Good support for Brook Lopez.

If they hadn't made that ridiculous trade with the Celts (with the unprotected first round picks), this would have been unnecessary.

I remember how Bill Simmons was on TV bemoaning how awful that trade was for the Celtics, when everyone else on the planet knew what a steal it was. They traded Garnett's corpse and Pierce's soon-to-be corpse for a TON of picks. Now they are reaping the benefits as they have so many assets with which to try to acquire a superstar.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I remember how Bill Simmons was on TV bemoaning how awful that trade was for the Celtics, when everyone else on the planet knew what a steal it was. They traded Garnett's corpse and Pierce's soon-to-be corpse for a TON of picks. Now they are reaping the benefits as they have so many assets with which to try to acquire a superstar.

But this is proving to be extremely challenging. The Celts have been trying to find a superstar since Garnett and Pierce left the Celtics. They have some amazing pieces and a ton of draft picks and arguably a top 3 coach in the NBA, but no superstar is biting yet. IMO, Jahlil for the #3 pick is not a good trade for the Celts. I do not believe Jahlil is a superstar nor do I believe that Celtic fans will embrace the trade (he not in a fight with Celtic fans last year).

Now that Rose is traded, Butler is off the table. The Cavs will probably sleep on Love for at least a few weeks before deciding. Cousins will require at least 3 picks and 3 excellent and upcoming role players (including Avery Bradley). For the Celts, it's a lose-lose situation unless someone bites and everyone is scared of Ainge fleecing them (which will probably happen).

[Billy Dat]

But this is proving to be extremely challenging. The Celts have been trying to find a superstar since Garnett and Pierce left the Celtics. They have some amazing pieces and a ton of draft picks and arguably a top 3 coach in the NBA, but no superstar is biting yet. IMO, Jahlil for the #3 pick is not a good trade for the Celts. I do not believe Jahlil is a superstar nor do I believe that Celtic fans will embrace the trade (he not in a fight with Celtic fans last year).

Now that Rose is traded, Butler is off the table. The Cavs will probably sleep on Love for at least a few weeks before deciding. Cousins will require at least 3 picks and 3 excellent and upcoming role players (including Avery Bradley). For the Celts, it's a lose-lose situation unless someone bites and everyone is scared of Ainge fleecing them (which will probably happen).

Yes, the conundrum of the modern NBA. Much celebrated (and rightly so) are the front offices that stockpile assets, "never lose a trade" and draft wisely in their quest for the elusive chip. But, going from a playoff team to a Finals team and then a title team is a BIG jump and the proliferation of smart front offices and smart owners across the league is nearly complete. As a Knicks fan, my owner and my front office are two of the only "dumb" ones left. Boston is on the same path as Houston, with a far superior coach, but it's just not easy to take those last few steps.

Brian Windhorst had some great quotes when talking about GM Lebron and the moves that Cleveland made to facilitate Lebron's return (Love for Wiggins, Mozgov, JR, Shump, Frye, Jefferson), "I'm giving them all an 'A'!"

Houston hasn't cashed in, but they've made bold moves. Ainge made a bold move when he traded Pierce and KG, and, as flyingdutch pointed out, that was 3 years ago. Boston's been climbing ever since, but have certainly stalled in the Lebron East where they are still only arguably in a huge pack with 8 other teams. Speaking of 8, that's how many new names will be associated with their team after the 2 rounds of the draft if they don't move any...

[BD80]

I remember how Bill Simmons was on TV bemoaning how awful that trade was for the Celtics, when everyone else on the planet knew what a steal it was. They traded Garnett's corpse and Pierce's soon-to-be corpse for a TON of picks. Now they are reaping the benefits as they have so many assets with which to try to acquire a superstar.

A ton of picks in a mediocre draft doesn't quite equate to "so many assets." The Hawks are trying to dump their 1st round picks to gain some salary room for Horford, revealing their opinion that the draft picks aren't worth the salary cap space.

Not sure that teams are anxious to deal with the Celtics, the New England press really puts trades under a microscope and never forgets. Deal with Phoenix, Toronto or Utah and nobody really notices and no one remembers.

[cato]

But this is proving to be extremely challenging. The Celts have been trying to find a superstar since Garnett and Pierce left the Celtics. They have some amazing pieces and a ton of draft picks and arguably a top 3 coach in the NBA, but no superstar is biting yet. IMO, Jahlil for the #3 pick is not a good trade for the Celts. I do not believe Jahlil is a superstar nor do I believe that Celtic fans will embrace the trade (he not in a fight with Celtic fans last year).

Now that Rose is traded, Butler is off the table. The Cavs will probably sleep on Love for at least a few weeks before deciding. Cousins will require at least 3 picks and 3 excellent and upcoming role players (including Avery Bradley). For the Celts, it's a lose-lose situation unless someone bites and everyone is scared of Ainge fleecing them (which will probably happen).

87% of the male population of Massachusetts between 18 and 35 has been in a fight with a Celtics fan.

[JNort]

Not sure if this should be in the draft thread but the mother effing Hornets traded the 22nd pick for Marco Belineli... They somehow find a way to surprise me year after year with sheer stupidity on draft day.


Sorry just super ticked off right now.