unc Athletics Scandal - Amended NOA has been released

[PackMan97]

I'm ready to jump out a window...which is gonna look really silly since I have a one story house. But I guess making State fans look silly is the thing for the day.

Anyone that wants fairness and honor in sports just lost.

[rifraf]

Wish I could say I was surprised, but I said they were going to skate over a year ago and it looks like that's what is going to happen.

I am surprised they removed stuff from the original NOA though; there's no logic there at all. How can you say with a straight face that after further review, we found less things?

[blueduke59]

Manalishi was FOS all along. All the PP people who who lived and died with his posts must be frothing about now. NCAA may as well close their doors too. What and spineless and toothless bunch weasels

[madscavenger]

Now you are all swinging in the other direction. We have no knowledge of factors like undisclosed interviews or what specific analysis was done (both before and after the NOA). Lets wait to see what Dan Kane has to say. There has been, subsequent to the numerous Kane articles and disclosures, other nationally known writing on the subject. Have none of them any credence at all? Has Dan Kane been buffaloed too? There is just too much verifiable information out there, in the Wainstein Report footnotes, and elsewhere. Did not Provosts, Professors, and on and on get substantial good-bye packages? Were multiple obfuscation, delay, and John Belushi 'lets throw it up against the wall and see if it sticks' tactics not even beyond the grasp of a Tyler Hansbrough level of insight? i am going to, despite my naturally ingrained, extremely skeptical character, await more detail before wringing my hands. It doesn't smell right. The NCAA cannot, especially now, be unaware of the magnitude of the consequences of minor penalties. You may as well say hey, Nixon made a few indisgressions, but no biggie.

Also, someone please inform us as to, even if charges remain at the reduced level now being assumed, whether the COI has sufficient authority to impose major penalties.



As far as announcing something right now, the UNC student body is wrapping up their "school" year and will be gone for the summer without any who were concerned giving this a second thought.


Edit: Hey, someone snuck Nixon in while I was typing -- must be somehow relevant.

[duke4ever19]

So, just for the sake of clarity, we can safely conclude that there will be NO punishment of any kind for unc men's hoops?

I know the punishments haven't been made known, but unc hoops will have managed to avoid any punishment for misdeeds?

[Tom B.]

As upset as I am by the NCAA's complete fecklessness and the total corruption of college athletics, @RCCPMD may just go down as one of the greatest trolls and sh*t posters in history. I believed it hook, line, and sinker.

Here's the thing about RCCPMD -- I don't think he was just some garden-variety Carolina fan trolling the rivals for kicks. Think about it -- obviously, everything he said about the amended NOA was fiction. But even if he was making stuff up, the amended NOA still could've been bad for Carolina. And that would've left RCCPMD with lots of egg on his face. He self-outs himself as a troll, and then Carolina gets hammered anyway? Tool.

No, I think this person (or people) had inside information. He had to know in advance what was in the amended NOA, or at least had to know generally that it would be softer than the original NOA. That way, he could troll safely, and time his self-outing for maximum schadenfreuderific effect. Without some kind of inside info about the amended NOA, his scam doesn't work.

Of course, we'll likely never know who it really was. But this does narrow the universe of potential candidates somewhat.

[sagegrouse]

So, just for the sake of clarity, we can safely conclude that there will be NO punishment of any kind for unc men's hoops?

I know the punishments haven't been made known, but unc hoops will have managed to avoid any punishment for misdeeds?

The institutional corruption charges are very strong. Failure to oversee ASPSA and AFRI/AFAM and Jan Boxill for six years (fall semester 2005 through summer semester 2011) is a really big deal. However, it really doesn't call out men's basketball. Therefore, the penalties are likely to be broad-brush (post-season bans for all sports and big fines) rather than specifically affecting men's basketball. Therefore, I don't see how eligibility and banners are affected at all (although I haven't read it closely). I suppose basketball and football could get a post-season ban of a year or two.

Women's basketball and Sylvia Hatchell are just plain toast, I suspect. And, really, who cares? All the good players have left, haven't they?

Boxill was fired (she was non-tenure but still had a high faculty position). I mean, who cares? I remember on Day One of the initial NOA, I went to the website for the Parr Center for Sports Ethics, which she led, and her picture and name were already gone.

[devildeac]

I posted this somewhere in a recent thread. Worth repeating.

chochote thamani ya kuwa ni yenye thamani ya udanganyifu kwa







Translation:

Anything worth having is worth cheating for.


Needs to be unc's new motto.

And perhaps any other ncaa-affiliated institution.

Color me disgusted. Thoroughly.

~23 years of fake/paper courses, admission to SACS of academic fraud, 2 ncaa investigations since ~2010, an 8 month delay for the ANOA and this is POS that they come up with?

[Bostondevil]

I still feel most sorry for the non-athlete students who majored in AFAM at UNC during this time period. I imagine many of them still have student loan debt. I cannot understand why they haven't filed a class action lawsuit. Their degrees are jokes, no matter how hard they worked for them, they should get their tuition refunded.

As for other punishments, the high school my kids go to has a volunteer mentoring program designed to help students and families who are unfamiliar with the college application process learn their way around. I know several of the mentors. I have made sure they know that UNC is on academic probation. The guidance counselors know about UNC's issues as well. Word is spreading - I got a phone call from an acquaintance whose daughter was accepted to UNC for next year. I told her no lies, just a barebones run down of the scandal. The daughter has decided to attend UVA. At this point in time, I cannot fathom spending out-of-state tuition money for UNC. There are many better options for the money.

I'm not sure I care about athletic teams getting punishments. Much as I've hated TarHeel sports through the years, I've long been proud that the public university in my home state (Durham native) had a great national reputation. Now, I'm ashamed. The real tragedy is the loss of respect for their academics, all of them. So yes, I am rather shocked that the faculty has not risen up against these practices or at the very least distanced themselves from them. The lack of institutional control has brought down a proud university. So - my feeling is their punishment should not involve taking down banners - it should involve the loss of the high quality students that have been the backbone of their academic reputation. If they want to be an athletic facility that teaches a few classes, so be it. The do not deserve the best students anymore.

[Pghdukie]

Another episode of unc declaring more self-investigation, another paper dump, then 6 more months delay will result in NCAA giving unc an open apology and $100 million as restitution for the embarrassing situation. We are so sorry unc !
WHAT A JOKE NCAA AS TURNED INTO

[El_Diablo]

So, just for the sake of clarity, we can safely conclude that there will be NO punishment of any kind for unc men's hoops?

I know the punishments haven't been made known, but unc hoops will have managed to avoid any punishment for misdeeds?

I believe there could be multi-sport punishments that could affect the men's basketball team (e.g., a blanket 1- or 2-year postseason ban, scholarship reductions) due to the failure to monitor and loss of institutional control. I assume someone will go through the bylaws and figure out what is possible on that front.

But vacated wins/banners look like they are off the table for the men's basketball team.

[JasonEvans]

Here's the thing about RCCPMD -- I don't think he was just some garden-variety Carolina fan trolling the rivals for kicks. Think about it -- obviously, everything he said about the amended NOA was fiction. But even if he was making stuff up, the amended NOA still could've been bad for Carolina. And that would've left RCCPMD with lots of egg on his face. He self-outs himself as a troll, and then Carolina gets hammered anyway? Tool.

No, I think this person (or people) had inside information. He had to know in advance what was in the amended NOA, or at least had to know generally that it would be softer than the original NOA. That way, he could troll safely, and time his self-outing for maximum schadenfreuderific effect. Without some kind of inside info about the amended NOA, his scam doesn't work.

Of course, we'll likely never know who it really was. But this does narrow the universe of potential candidates somewhat.

Worth noting that shortly after revealing himself as a troll, but several hours before the ANOA was released, RCCPMD said he was looking forward to all the State fans having to read a NOA that "looked like it was written by Swofford." Well, that is pretty much what we got here. So, I 100% agree with Tom that RCCPMD was someone who was connected to the process and knew what was coming.

Do we also now think that Manalishi is a fraud?

-Jason "tragic, though I think we will look back on this in a few yeas as one of the foolish moves that destroyed the NCAA -- this opens to door to rampant cheating which will forever elminate the notion of the student-athlete" Evans

[arnie]

Totally predictable and has Swofford fingerprints all over it. I'm hoping several schools use this opportunity to divorce themselves from the ACC and UnC. Wouldn't bother me if it started with Duke in a very public announcement regarding academic integrity.

[Neals384]

So now we know the real reason UNC self-reported additional violations last fall - it wasn't to create a delay for the 2016 MBB team; it was the only way the NCAA could back off of the original allegations without advancing them to the COI.

[Danke Shane]

a NOA that "looked like it was written by Swofford." Well, that is pretty much what we got here. So, I 100% agree with Tom that RCCPMD was someone who was connected to the process and knew what was coming.

It also perhaps explains how Roy's been able to say over and over and over again that MBB wasn't going to be affected, as if he's been reassured behind the scenes that they were going to dodge it.

[Atlanta Duke]

Decline is not a smooth downward slope but a series of uneven descending stair steps

If the amended NOA turns out to result in the two UNC men's revenue sports getting off with pretty much a stern warning not to do this again but not much else it will be a major step down to college sports giving up any pretext of being nothing but pro sports where, unlike the major leagues, virtually all the revenue goes to the coaches and athletic departments while the players are enrolled in school but not expected to legitimately pass real classes

At least the charade being exposed will accelerate the demise of the NCAA

[NashvilleDevil]

Worth noting that shortly after revealing himself as a troll, but several hours before the ANOA was released, RCCPMD said he was looking forward to all the State fans having to read a NOA that "looked like it was written by Swofford." Well, that is pretty much what we got here. So, I 100% agree with Tom that RCCPMD was someone who was connected to the process and knew what was coming.

Do we also now think that Manalishi is a fraud?

-Jason "tragic, though I think we will look back on this in a few yeas as one of the foolish moves that destroyed the NCAA -- this opens to door to rampant cheating which will forever elminate the notion of the student-athlete" Evans

I've been lurking on Pack Pride today and I believe Manalishi has been a poster since the late 90s.

[wsb3]

No, I think this person (or people) had inside information.

That thought surely crossed my mind as well. I also thought about a conversation a few months back with a fellow Duke fan who is friends with a big UNC booster & the booster was adamant they were not going to get punished.

[OZ]

-Jason "tragic, though I think we will look back on this in a few yeas as one of the foolish moves that destroyed the NCAA -- this opens to door to rampant cheating which will forever elminate the notion of the student-athlete" Evans

It seems one could conclude, that the position of the NCAA is... as long as cheating is available to all students, it is out of their jurisdiction and therefore acceptable.

[SilkyJ]

I've known it all along - they're gonna skate...

-jk

I apologize and admit that I was wrong. Absolutely wrong. My sources were wrong. I was wrong, wrong, wrong.

I can't believe it, but the skeptics and pessimists seem to be right. The NCAA is going to ignore mountains of evidence and let them skate.

Plenty of room on my bus ladies and gentlemen. Plenty of room.

I also note, OF, that you are noble enough to come out and eat crow immediately. Hence the level of respect you have earned. There are others on this board (Duke95 comes to mind) who have been very aggressive and patronizing in their arguments and are seemingly nowhere to be found.

The NCAA is spineless guys. There was nothing that happened in the last 8 months that the NCAA didn't know 1-2 years ago. The cheating happened decades ago. If they were going to punish them they could have done it a long time ago. They will do anything to avoid having to penalize these guys...too big too fail and all that.

And for the 100th time, these guys took a year to do...basically nothing? At best they are incompetent and at worst they were complicit in the NOA delay to allow the UNC BB team to make its title run!

They still haven't levied punishments yet so we'll see, but taking a year to do nothing does not bode well.

Do we also now think that Manalishi is a fraud?

I've questioned him from the beginning. Can't read stuff from randoms on the internet, unless they have proven that their info is credible. Where are his bonafides?