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  1. #121
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    Stanford does not have a Chapel Hill.
    Thank heavens there's only one Chapel Hell!

    To be fair, Stanford has Cal-Berserkeley & SF, all not too far away. Get on the train (&BART), and you're there. GOT to love public transportation! Berkeley is a wonderful college town, and SF is a helluva city.

    As it turns out the Bears are now number 2 in the country. GO FIGURE!

    Cheers,
    Lavabe

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC
    I like Chapel Hill a lot. If I lived in the Triangle area, that's where I would want to be, if I could work there. If I were a student in the area, I'd probably spend some time there. I like UNC OK, for that matter. Not so much their sports teams.

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post

    Re Asack, you have to look at what he did in his freshman year and then consider whether our rigid and overly conservative approach to the offense, particularly in the first half of the Wake game after the initial touchdown was / is symptomatic of problems in putting a game plan together and in making adjustments during the game. Roof is at best a mediocre coach. And, his rigidity might extend to now sticking with Lewis under all circumstances even when Lewis is way overthrowing his receivers and getting intercepted.
    From my perspective, any talk of replacing Thad Lewis as our QB does not pass the common sense equation. After six games, according to ESPN, Thad Lewis is the 29th highest rated QB in the nation and the highest rated of any QB in the ACC.

    Our football woes are not due to inadequate performance from the QB or receivers. However, we are dead last in the ACC in rushing offense and total defense.

    The team is improving but I agree that they must figure out how to win some games. The team and Coach Roof have my support!
    Bob Green

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    We can go through archives and whether the search engine will pick up your posts and whether it will pick up deleted posts, but your response to one of my first posts re the innocence of the lacrosse players turned immediately into a personal attack against me that I must hate women. In other posts you have called me "sick."
    Or, to quote you as I read it:
    Quote Originally Posted by formerdukeathlete View Post
    Blah, blah, blah. Blah, blah-blah-blah, blah. Blah. Blah!"
    I just showed you an archive that has no evidence of my doing anything you "recall." Now you're making up more lies. Let me repeat something to you that people have been telling you since the day you started posting here, Mr. Formerdukeathlete. Back. Up. Your. Words. Try presenting facts. Otherwise, everything you say is meaningless, and gets translated as I did above.

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by dukie8 View Post
    i suppose norv turner gets a free pass in your book for the mess he has created in san diego this year. how about doherty at unc?
    Look, of course I realize that bad coaches exist. You cite two excellent examples there. And there are also some truly great coaches. But I think most guys fall into some sort of a middle ground, where they can succeed or fail based on a variety of other circumstances.

    My point about Roof and Duke is that the situation is about as close to unique as you'll find in college football. Duke hasn't won more than 4 games since 1994. That was Duke's only winning season since 1989. The program has been in shambles since Spurrier left. Even Stanford, your example, has a much better track record than Duke during that time period. Stanford won five gams just two years ago (in a much better conference). They won 9 games in 2001 and 8 games in 1999. Prior to that, the Cardinal won 7 games in both 1996 and 1995, 10 in 1992 and 8 in 1991. In short, Stanford at least has some sort of a foundation in football. Duke doesn't.

    That's why I think the rules need to be different for Duke. Essentially, I'm asking for two more years, to the time when Duke's top young players are seniors. By then, we'll have seen more than one of Roof's recruiting classes come and go. We'll have had a long look at how Roof has changed the program, whether the players have grown under him and whether he has grown as a coach. The two caveats are the two I listed before (plus the third someone else added about graduating players):
    1) The players must continue to play hard for him.
    2) There must be some sign of improvement each season, no matter how small.
    If, at the end of the 2009 season, Duke's not a much better football team (I'm not sure how to quantify that in wins -- obviously it has to be at least four), then it will be time to make a change. And if Duke hires a new coach, that can't be the only change made to the program.

    I just can't go through the process of "give him four, then out the door" again. It's not working. I'd much rather suffer through two seasons of epic losing then to start from scratch next season. Because we can always start from scratch a little longer down the line. Duke football won't vanish, so why not try something a little different. In a world that demands instant gratification, let's be leaders and buck the trend, show extraordinary patience, and see where that takes us. If we fail, we fail, but at least we would have tried something different.

  6. #126

    I could agree, except for one big reason...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Look, of course I realize that bad coaches exist. You cite two excellent examples there. And there are also some truly great coaches. But I think most guys fall into some sort of a middle ground, where they can succeed or fail based on a variety of other circumstances.

    My point about Roof and Duke is that the situation is about as close to unique as you'll find in college football. Duke hasn't won more than 4 games since 1994. That was Duke's only winning season since 1989. The program has been in shambles since Spurrier left. Even Stanford, your example, has a much better track record than Duke during that time period. Stanford won five gams just two years ago (in a much better conference). They won 9 games in 2001 and 8 games in 1999. Prior to that, the Cardinal won 7 games in both 1996 and 1995, 10 in 1992 and 8 in 1991. In short, Stanford at least has some sort of a foundation in football. Duke doesn't.

    That's why I think the rules need to be different for Duke. Essentially, I'm asking for two more years, to the time when Duke's top young players are seniors. By then, we'll have seen more than one of Roof's recruiting classes come and go. We'll have had a long look at how Roof has changed the program, whether the players have grown under him and whether he has grown as a coach. The two caveats are the two I listed before (plus the third someone else added about graduating players):
    1) The players must continue to play hard for him.
    2) There must be some sign of improvement each season, no matter how small.
    If, at the end of the 2009 season, Duke's not a much better football team (I'm not sure how to quantify that in wins -- obviously it has to be at least four), then it will be time to make a change. And if Duke hires a new coach, that can't be the only change made to the program.

    I just can't go through the process of "give him four, then out the door" again. It's not working. I'd much rather suffer through two seasons of epic losing then to start from scratch next season. Because we can always start from scratch a little longer down the line. Duke football won't vanish, so why not try something a little different. In a world that demands instant gratification, let's be leaders and buck the trend, show extraordinary patience, and see where that takes us. If we fail, we fail, but at least we would have tried something different.
    Hi,

    I truly believe that very good to superior coaching trumps waiting around to see what Roof might or might not do. In my opinion, and we seem to differ quite a bit on this, good coaching can make bigger strides than Roof can doing his baby steps. I am not ready to give up on two or three seasons to see if this experiment will work or not. It is all probably a moot point anyway since Alleva has shown quite a bit of loyalty to Roof, so we will probably get the opportunity to see what he can do with two or more seasons under his belt.

    GO DUKE!

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kewlswim View Post
    Hi,

    I truly believe that very good to superior coaching trumps waiting around to see what Roof might or might not do. In my opinion, and we seem to differ quite a bit on this, good coaching can make bigger strides than Roof can doing his baby steps. I am not ready to give up on two or three seasons to see if this experiment will work or not. It is all probably a moot point anyway since Alleva has shown quite a bit of loyalty to Roof, so we will probably get the opportunity to see what he can do with two or more seasons under his belt.
    FWIW, I 100% agree with you that great coaching makes a big difference. I also agree that Roof is probably not a great coach-- at least not yet. But, I think there is a decent chance that he may be a good coach and is learning how to be better. I also think there is almost no evidence at all that Duke can and will find someone better than Roof if we get rid of him.

    Seeing as Duke has been woefully bad for such a long time, I fail to see why you and others think it is so essential to get rid of Roof now. In the grand scheme of things, does it really matter if we stink again next year versus the chance that maybe -- maybe -- Roof does know what he is doing and we might actually be decent-good next season?

    -Jason "as I often do, I agree 100% with Jumbo about the criteria for keeping Roof around -- don't give up and keep on showing progress!" Evans

  8. #128

    How about looking at this comparison?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    Even Stanford, your example, has a much better track record than Duke during that time period. Stanford won five gams just two years ago (in a much better conference).
    Just as a comparison for everyone to look at, look at the year by year history of Vandy, which plays in a much tougher conference, the SEC. About a 1/3 of the way down the page you will see the historical record(looks like 1999 is transposed). You will notice that several years they were blanked in conference, but they were able to win OOC games such that they never had to deal with a 22 game losing streak.

    I would be satsified with a similar result trajectory for Duke that Vandy has seen under Bobby Johnson. I just get the feeling we aren't there yet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanderb...Coaching_staff.

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Skinker-DeBaliviere, Saint Louis
    Quote Originally Posted by Lavabe View Post
    It's also pretty much the norm around the country. Here's a story about it from 2005:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...n1167672.shtml

    Cheers,
    Lavabe
    You mean Carolina isn't some completely unique paradise of nubile coeds just waiting for settlement by hunky Duke explorers? My head is spinning.

    A movie is not about what it's about; it's about how it's about it.
    ---Roger Ebert


    Some questions cannot be answered
    Who’s gonna bury who
    We need a love like Johnny, Johnny and June
    ---Over the Rhine

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by Kewlswim View Post
    Hi,

    I truly believe that very good to superior coaching trumps waiting around to see what Roof might or might not do. In my opinion, and we seem to differ quite a bit on this, good coaching can make bigger strides than Roof can doing his baby steps. I am not ready to give up on two or three seasons to see if this experiment will work or not. It is all probably a moot point anyway since Alleva has shown quite a bit of loyalty to Roof, so we will probably get the opportunity to see what he can do with two or more seasons under his belt.
    GO DUKE!
    Duke has a history of dumping coaches:

    COACH # YEARS
    Dr. John F. Crowell 2
    No Coach 5
    Floyd J. Egan 1
    James Baldwin 1
    Herman Steiner 1
    S.M. Alexander 1
    Howard H. Jones 1
    James P. "Pat" Herron 1
    James "Jimmy" DeHart 5
    Wallace W. Wade 16
    Edmund M. "Eddie" Cameron 4
    William D. "Bill" Murray 15
    Tom Harp 5
    Mike McGee 8
    Shirley "Red" Wilson 4
    Steve Sloan 4
    Steve Spurrier 3
    Barry Wilson 4
    Fred Goldsmith 5
    Carl Franks 5
    Ted Roof 2
    the most successful years were when coaches were allowed to stay and complete what they started. Shouldn't we giver TR that chance?

  11. #131
    Interesting, does anyone have a historical(year-by-year) reference for each season, so we can look at the "trajectory"?

    Also, did anyone else notice we did fairly well with "No Coach" from 90-94? Perhaps we can go back in that direction?

  12. #132
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    Interesting, does anyone have a historical(year-by-year) reference for each season, so we can look at the "trajectory"?

    Also, did anyone else notice we did fairly well with "No Coach" from 90-94? Perhaps we can go back in that direction?
    "No Coach" has signed a long, lucrative contract with the San Diego Chargers. There's no way we'd be able to get him back.

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Quote Originally Posted by throatybeard View Post
    You mean Carolina isn't some completely unique paradise of nubile coeds just waiting for settlement by hunky Duke explorers? My head is spinning.
    Are you getting UNC mixed up with Cannibal Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death?

    Cheers,
    Lavabe

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumbo View Post
    "No Coach" has signed a long, lucrative contract with the San Diego Chargers. There's no way we'd be able to get him back.
    ROFL...anyone know his agent? I could use some representation.

  15. #135
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Parts Unknown
    Quote Originally Posted by YmoBeThere View Post
    Interesting, does anyone have a historical(year-by-year) reference for each season, so we can look at the "trajectory"?

    Also, did anyone else notice we did fairly well with "No Coach" from 90-94? Perhaps we can go back in that direction?
    My link did...This board does not post graphs well so i didn't do all of it.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedawg View Post
    My link did...This board does not post graphs well so i didn't do all of it.
    I was thinking in terms of 1994 - Goldsmith coached team had : 6 wins 5 loses, year 2: 2 wins 9 losses, etc. There must be a link to a guide/stat/year book somewhere. Otherwise I will have to pick one up while in Durham this weekend.

  17. #137
    My god. Why is Lewis-Asack even an argument? Do you guys not realize that he's probably the best quarterback in our ACC division? To have a quarterback this good for Duke is huge - and he's only a sophomore! This shouldn't be a question at all.

    And to those of you who think that this is just like last year - do you even watch the games? I mean, seriously? Do you not remember getting shut out by Richmond at home, shut out by UVA at home, shut out by Virginia Tech, blown out by FSU, Navy, Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt (at home!) and Boston College?

    I'm not saying Roof is going to be the savior of Duke football, and I'm tired of moral victories as much as anyone, but anyone who doesn't think we're going in the right direction right now and that we've improved from last year just isn't paying attention.

  18. #138
    do you even watch the games?
    Ummm, no. They don't televise them up here...

  19. #139
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Jumbo, thanks for the series of clarifications.

    There are several people whose posts are so consistently snide and negative that I wonder why they bother to read dbr. Interestingly, their screennames tend to refer to the university or one of its employees, which seems like an odd choice given their apparent antipathy for the institution.

  20. #140
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Enough Roof bashing for this week. It's getting too repetitive. This thread is closed.

    -jk

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