MBB: Duke 72, Louisville 65 Post-Game Thread

[akg4y]

And this sort of reaction is what inflames more Duke hatred. The cycle continues, there's no news here.

That sort of reaction from anyone just screams insecurity to me.. This is a basketball discussion, anyone who takes it to a level of 'hatred' or pretty much anything beyond entertainment needs to refocus.

Regardless, I understand there is always bias against good teams, I mentioned that in my original posts. Someone asked if there really was Allen hate, and I tried to answer... some will agree, some will disagree, but the perception outside of Duke fans is basically what I laid out. It wouldnt matter if he scored 6 points a game or if he played for Boston College, but he doesn't so everything gets magnified. All of that coupled with fouls from players like Winslow and Allen like last night just make bring it to national attention and make it worse. ESPN of course doesnt care about anything but money and clicks so if they can blame it on race and make it get 10% more views then they will.

Either way, bring it on on Saturday, time for UVA to get their first win in years at Cameron!

[burnspbesq]

Can we possibly leave George Huguely out of this conversation? That's a whole different level of tragedy, and not remotely comparable to selling calls.

[Wahoo2000]

That sort of reaction from anyone just screams insecurity to me.. This is a basketball discussion, anyone who takes it to a level of 'hatred' or pretty much anything beyond entertainment needs to refocus.

Regardless, I understand there is always bias against good teams, I mentioned that in my original posts. Someone asked if there really was Allen hate, and I tried to answer... some will agree, some will disagree, but the perception outside of Duke fans is basically what I laid out. It wouldnt matter if he scored 6 points a game or if he played for Boston College, but he doesn't so everything gets magnified. All of that coupled with fouls from players like Winslow and Allen like last night just make bring it to national attention and make it worse. ESPN of course doesnt care about anything but money and clicks so if they can blame it on race and make it get 10% more views then they will.

Either way, bring it on on Saturday, time for UVA to get their first win in years at Cameron!

I said it in my last post on this thread and I'll say it again. ANYONE - Duke fan or otherwise - that thinks or says the flopping/chippy issue is more prevalent at Duke than MANY (if not "most") other schools is kidding themselves. And ANYONE that thinks K coaches or encourages this type of play is either a nut or a conspiracy theorist.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Hey, I didn't do a head snap. GoDuke!

Touche.

I guess to me, I mean, I get that we are fans and will always look at things through our biased glasses. But, when a player comes along and other fan bases dislike him, it's easy to say "you hate him because he's white! You're racist!" Maybe they hate him because he's a jerk, or he's dirty, or he's cocky. (To be clear, I don't think any of our players are jerks, I am just making a point).

But, then, it's complicated further by headlines like the one above.

I don't know. Of course, I don't like the idea of anyone being hated because of their race, but pretending our players are impervious to any legitimate dislike is also absurd. I think I might counteract this whole idea with a more positive thread I have been considering...

[tbyers11]

The Harrison twins from Kentucky were mentioned as a comparison, but I cant remember anyone complaining about those guys repeatedly acting to draw fouls. All teams have players that do it occasionally, but when it becomes a go to move rather than focusing on the game itself is where it is a problem. Watch Allen in the next game, when he drives to the basket... anytime there is a player remotely close to him he exaggerates to try and get the ref to make a call. You can rewatch the last game and see it... the refs fortunately seem to have clued in to it compared to early in the season and are no longer calling it as much, to the point that last night there were even some plays where Allen probably was fouled and they didnt call it.

People complained about the Harrsion twins doing it all the time. Did you frequent Louisville or other SEC boards? Announcers even mentioned it. I remember ESPN discussing it in a story. Allen does sell contact on his drives more than most. However, I think he gets contacted strongly on a lot of his drives and doesn't sell it remotely close to the amount you are suggesting. As a Duke fan and a non-Duke ACC fan I don't think we are going to come to an agreement there.

As for refs not calling things now vs early in the season, I think it is has something to with ACC refs and their familiarity with certain players and their tendencies as you suggest. However, I think it has more to do with the refs simply not calling contact by the defender on drives like they are supposed to (and did early in the season) according to the new guidelines. I'm not alone in this as Mark Gottfried complained about Cat Barber not getting the calls on his drives as he had earlier in the season last week.

Also, I wasn't trying to compare hand-checking/grabbing in the lane and selling contact as comparable within the rules. I was using it as an example of similar confirmation bias. Regardless of whether UVA is doing something wrong or unsportsman-like in this regard, nobody complained about it until they were winning ACC championships

[DukieInKansas]

I said it in my last post on this thread and I'll say it again. ANYONE - Duke fan or otherwise - that thinks or says the flopping/chippy issue is more prevalent at Duke than MANY (if not "most") other schools is kidding themselves. And ANYONE that thinks K coaches or encourages this type of play is either a nut or a conspiracy theorist.

Hey - sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. And now that jingle be running through my head for a few hours.

In watching the clip, I actually think the player was going to trip over Grayson's leg whether he moved it or not. But, he did move his leg and I think it was the right call. I hope he learns from it and avoids that reaction in the future. (I know I tripped someone when playing goalie because they kept coming too close in following their shot and I hated having to play goalie anyway. I'm just grateful she caught her balance and didn't hit her head on the "post". It was indoor soccer so the post was the corner where the boards met the net. It could have been very ugly - never did it again.)

[53n206]

Aside from Grayson, I thought the Chase Jeter played a fine game. Made a basket, three rebounds, one foul, one turnover. Not bad for five minutes. But more important, he looked like he understood what he was doing.

[Lid]

Aside from Grayson, I thought the Chase Jeter played a fine game. Made a basket, three rebounds, one foul, one turnover. Not bad for five minutes. But more important, he looked like he understood what he was doing.

I agree -- was impressed with his minutes and thought he was quite functional. Any thoughts on why he didn't sniff the floor in the 2nd half?

[kAzE]

I agree -- was impressed with his minutes and thought he was quite functional. Any thoughts on why he didn't sniff the floor in the 2nd half?

Probably because Marshall Plumlee is playing fantastic basketball and we rarely play both of them at the same time. However, it's a lineup that would be interesting to explore, considering Brandon played 40 minutes. Pretty sure we do no want Brandon to play 40 minutes a game, and the fewer minutes Matt Jones plays at power forward, the better.

It would change our offense quite a bit, having 2 non-shooters on the floor at once. BUT that's what were doing with Amile and MP3, so it's not totally out of the question. The real question is, can Chase learn how to play the 4? Considering how much trouble he's had just learning 1 role, there may be a bit of a learning curve involved. I don't expect us to do anything crazy over the next 3 brutal games.

[cato]

Hey, I didn't do a head snap. GoDuke!

That we know of. Do you have a link?

[weezie]

Aside from Grayson, I thought the Chase Jeter played a fine game. Made a basket, three rebounds, one foul, one turnover. Not bad for five minutes. But more important, he looked like he understood what he was doing.

Absolutely agree. I was very pleased to see him smile and get some positive crowd recognition.

The Crazies were great last night! And the Crusties definitely contributed.

[Furniture]

I agree -- was impressed with his minutes and thought he was quite functional. Any thoughts on why he didn't sniff the floor in the 2nd half?

I would say simply because the game was very close and K wanted his best men out there.

[Troublemaker]

Yep, Coach K has no issues playing his starters for 35-40 minutes, so it's no surprise that he apparently went with Marshall for 20 minutes in the 2nd half after using Chase to give him some breathers in the first half.

[RPS]

Im sure you've seen this famous vine, two sniper shots to the head in one play!
https://vine.co/v/iumQmDp7637

It's a constant with those who play for Coach K: see here, for example.

More seriously, there is a regional element to all of this. Here on the Left Coast, claims like Duke getting all the calls are hard to find before tournament time and are much less prevalent even then. I think it's mostly confirmation bias. Thus when the object of the attention isn't a big deal (being 3,000 miles away), few think twice about it.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It's a constant with those who play for Coach K: see here, for example.

More seriously, there is a regional element to all of this. Here on the Left Coast, claims like Duke getting all the calls are hard to find before tournament time and are much less prevalent even then. I think it's mostly confirmation bias. Thus when the object of the attention isn't a big deal (being 3,000 miles away), few think twice about it.

Well, in my life experience, people on the Left Coast don't pay attention to ANY basketball until March.

[burnspbesq]

It's a constant with those who play for Coach K: see here, for example.

More seriously, there is a regional element to all of this. Here on the Left Coast, claims like Duke getting all the calls are hard to find before tournament time and are much less prevalent even then. I think it's mostly confirmation bias. Thus when the object of the attention isn't a big deal (being 3,000 miles away), few think twice about it.

West of the Rockies, it's BYU that gets all the calls--and boy howdy, do they play chippy (at times bordering on downright dirty).

[shereec]

Sorry to bring this up again, but here's my question - why did the refs go to the monitor in the first place? What I saw from section 1 was Allen get undercut and hit the floor, the Louisville player grabs the ball and starts dribbling toward Allen. I will admit that I didn't see the leg come up off the floor in real time (but I wasn't watching Allen on the floor), but the L'ville guy trips, the ball goes out of bounds and the ref right there calls it out of bounds to Duke. The L'ville player then gets up and goes to the ref and begins to complain. THEN the refs went to the monitor. Did another ref come over to overrule the out of bounds call? Or was the L'ville player allowed to convince the refs to go review?

[azzefkram]

A really nice win for the good guys. I have been underwhelmed with Matt's D all year but he did a heck of a job on Lee especially denying him the ball. He also had a slo-mo drive to the hoop in the second half that was a critical score. Luke had a quiet but effective night. Marshall had a really nice night. That up and under move was pleasantly surprising but they might need to swap out the rim after that jump hook. Chase has looked better these past few games. He still gets lost on D a bit but overall he's moving in the right direction. I thought Derryck did a terrific job on D and I think his offense was better than people are giving him credit for. Louisville is the 2nd rated D for a reason. Senior Marcus Paige coughed up a few turnovers against them a few games ago. Brandon was the man last night. I much prefer Brandon initiating the offence when Derryck is out. Grayson was a tale of 2 halves. The first half he was awesome. The second half was Kentucky Grayson, complete with out of control drives and sloppy passing. His minute and a half stretch starting with the out of control drive preceding the flagrant nearly cost us the game. I think we are fortunate that it didn't. As for the flagrant, it looked pretty intentional through these Duke Blue shaded glasses which makes it dirty play in my book. Play with reckless abandon and all out intensity right up to the line. Just don't cross it. Intentionally tripping a player crosses the line. I'd imagine the coaches conveyed that message.

[killerleft]

Me too! Can someone post a head snap video. Want to be sure I understand this particular gripe!

Check out AMC when they replay West Side Story, and think, "Head, not fingers.", daddy-o.

[killerleft]

Actually we draw fouls among the lowest in the league, but that has to do more with the way we play. Driving to the hoop isnt a huge part of our offensive system.
That misses the point though, VT draws a ton of fouls but the same complaints arent made about their players because they arent trying to earn Oscars and a foul at the same time. If you get fouled, you get fouled, the times you pretend like you've gotten a sniper shot to the head when nobody touched you is what is irritating, especially when it is done nearly every time Allen has the ball.

Who is "we"? Surely you don't mean Duke. We drive to the basket quite often.