2015-16 General NBA Thread (not Duke-specific)

[pfrduke]

Brian Windhorst ‏@WindhorstESPN 17m17 minutes ago
LeBron James was informed of the decision to fire David Blatt today, he was not consulted on decision sources said

This seems...well, let's just say unlikely.

[Billy Dat]

This seems...well, let's just say unlikely.

I agree. Plausible deniability was maintained somehow.

[JetpackJesus]

ESPN just posted this video a few minutes ago. There's some interesting bits of information sprinkled throughout.

And the more I think about it, the more the timing makes some sense:

[JasonEvans]

I am certain that Cavs management knew Lebron would be ok with the firing. While he may not have been directly consulted, there is no way they risked his anger over it. He had clearly spoken to management or the owner and they knew he was not exactly enamored of Blatt. Plus, by spinning it this way, Lebron does not look like a coach-killer and meddler of a player.

-Jason "is Tyron Lue the permanent choice? I suspect not" Evans

[pfrduke]

-Jason "is Tyron Lue the permanent choice? I suspect not" Evans

They did give him a multi-year contract. I suppose that's no guarantee, but he's not getting the "interim" label - he's the new head coach.

[CDu]

I am certain that Cavs management knew Lebron would be ok with the firing. While he may not have been directly consulted, there is no way they risked his anger over it. He had clearly spoken to management or the owner and they knew he was not exactly enamored of Blatt. Plus, by spinning it this way, Lebron does not look like a coach-killer and meddler of a player.

-Jason "is Tyron Lue the permanent choice? I suspect not" Evans

They did give him a multi-year contract. I suppose that's no guarantee, but he's not getting the "interim" label - he's the new head coach.

Lue has, for the past year and a half, been the guy that has garned respect from the team (read: from LeBron). He was the guy that saved the Cavs from losing in embarassing fashion in Game 4 against the Bulls in last year's second round (pulling him back from calling a timeout that he didn't have).

Whether or not Lue can actually coach or is just buddy-buddy with the key players remains to be seen. But, yeah, I think Lue is the coach for as long as things are going right. If, however, things don't go right (i.e., the Cavs don't win a title this year or next), Lue will be scapegoated out as well, with the argument being that he wasn't experienced enough to do the job.

This was clearly a situation in which the players (led by LeBron) had no respect for the coach (Blatt). It was not a long-term solution from either side. I don't know if Lue is a long-term solution, but that's where we are.

[sagegrouse]

They did give him a multi-year contract. I suppose that's no guarantee, but he's not getting the "interim" label - he's the new head coach.

And, according to the ESPN reporter on the link, he was the highest paid assistant in the NBA when he was hired last year. $1.4 million per year.

[kAzE]

In my opinion, the Cavs as currently constructed cannot defeat the Warriors or Spurs in a 7 game series, regardless of who is coaching. They don't have the personnel in the front court to to deal with what both of those teams bring to the table. Kevin Love is a bad fit in an offense with Kyrie and LeBron, and he's never been a great defender. The Cavs could probably get about the same production that Love is putting out in his current role for much less money. Handing out a max contract to Tristan Thompson probably wasn't the best move either. David Griffin probably needs to make a big move before the trade deadline or else he's next.

[JetpackJesus]

They did give him a multi-year contract. I suppose that's no guarantee, but he's not getting the "interim" label - he's the new head coach.

Apparently Griffin stated that the contract extension reports are inaccurate. He said that Lue is the HC, though. No interim tag.

[Kdogg]

So who coaches the East All star team?

[BobbyFan]

David Blatt fired despite a) a trip to the Finals in his first season and b) a 30-11 record in his second season. Something tells me this is locker room related and not on-the-court related.

It's strange timing for sure. It was an awkward situation from the start, when management told Blatt his assistant would be Lue, who they would be making the highest paid assistant in league history. And LeBron's preference for Lue was hardly a secret. But why not make this decision before the season started to give Lue a clean slate? Instead they make the switch halfway into a regular season in which the Cavs are on a 60 win pace despite having had players miss significant time with injuries.

It's hard to judge Blatt's performance because he was never given a fair opportunity to install his motion offense, which is what he is best known for. It certainly would have made better use of Love's abilities than is being made now. LeBron scrapped the idea early last season, after he and his teammates put dubious effort into learning it. It does put a premium on off-ball movement, which LeBron has not historically cared for much, except perhaps his championship years in Miami when he finally accepted Spoelstra (a coach who may have suffered the same fate as Blatt, if not for the presence of a dominating figure in managment, in Pat Riley).

Now, the alternative of what they're currently running, and what LeBron is familiar with for most of his career, is a darn good option too because LeBron is great at making decisions. But it's a shame we didn't get a chance to see what Blatt's principles combined with the Cavs' talent could have led to. I'm sure the Warriors' players are glad they got to find out what Kerr/Gentry could bring to their offense, despite losing a coach they liked in Mark Jackson.

[Troublemaker]

In my opinion, the Cavs as currently constructed cannot defeat the Warriors or Spurs in a 7 game series, regardless of who is coaching. They don't have the personnel in the front court to to deal with what both of those teams bring to the table. Kevin Love is a bad fit in an offense with Kyrie and LeBron, and he's never been a great defender. The Cavs could probably get about the same production that Love is putting out in his current role for much less money. Handing out a max contract to Tristan Thompson probably wasn't the best move either. David Griffin probably needs to make a big move before the trade deadline or else he's next.

To be fair to Cleveland's roster construction, it's sort of bad luck that their two main competitors for the title can both threaten 70 wins; usually the top-of-the-league competition isn't quite so dominant. But first things first. It would be inexcusable for them to not win the East. They need to find their stride as a team, peak in the playoffs and mow down the competition quickly so that they can snag their spot in the Finals, well-rested and healthy, and see who wins the GSW-SAS war.

[CDu]

It's strange timing for sure. It was an awkward situation from the start, when management told Blatt his assistant would be Lue, who they would be making the highest paid assistant in league history. And LeBron's preference for Lue was hardly a secret. But why not make this decision before the season started to give Lue a clean slate? Instead they make the switch halfway into a regular season in which the Cavs are on a 60 win pace despite having had players miss significant time with injuries.

It's hard to judge Blatt's performance because he was never given a fair opportunity to install his motion offense, which is what he is best known for. It certainly would have made better use of Love's abilities than is being made now. LeBron scrapped the idea early last season, after he and his teammates put dubious effort into learning it. It does put a premium on off-ball movement, which LeBron has not historically cared for much, except perhaps his championship years in Miami when he finally accepted Spoelstra (a coach who may have suffered the same fate as Blatt, if not for the presence of a dominating figure in managment, in Pat Riley).

Now, the alternative of what they're currently running, and what LeBron is familiar with for most of his career, is a darn good option too because LeBron is great at making decisions. But it's a shame we didn't get a chance to see what Blatt's principles combined with the Cavs' talent could have led to. I'm sure the Warriors' players are glad they got to find out what Kerr/Gentry could bring to their offense, despite losing a coach they liked in Mark Jackson.

The Bulls are facing a somewhat similar predicament (albeit at a lower tier). They brought in Fred Hoiberg, who is a devotee of the "space and pace" movement similar to what we see in Golden State. Unfortunately for Hoiberg, the Bulls have a horrid roster for that system. Rose and Butler are iso-specialists, and neither are great perimeter shooters (though Butler is improving in that regard). Gasol is a statue at this point in his career, and pretty much only wants to play post-up basketball. In the new-wave approach, he's basically only capable of playing the pick-and-pop game (which he is good at, but really isn't a best use of his skills). And they just don't have enough shooters at the PF spot (Mirotic is looking more and more like a bust; Portis is young and unpolished; Gibson isn't much of a shooter).

The Cavs brought in a system coach with three ball-dominant, iso-specialist players. That was never likely to be a good fit. LeBron especially is just such a transcendent player and so set in his ways that Blatt's system was never going to work. Unlike in Chicago (where guys like Gasol are going to be gone soon anyway), there was no foreseeable future for Blatt to get his way.

[huey]

Wouldn't it be great if Blatt spends the rest of the year as an assistant on the Warriors? He was going to be an assistant coach there before the Cavs offer came up. Would be a nice touch of revenge as he'd still get paid by the Cavs and could help beat them. Then he could go for one of the (probably) open coaching spots in MN, DC, or Phoenix.

[BobbyFan]

The Cavs brought in a system coach with three ball-dominant, iso-specialist players. That was never likely to be a good fit.

Technically, Blatt was brought in to coach a young team led by Irving, Wiggins, etc, which would given him a more fair opportunity. The Cavs wouldn't have hired Blatt knowing LeBron was coming.

LeBron especially is just such a transcendent player and so set in his ways that Blatt's system was never going to work.

Agreed. But LeBron not giving it an honest chance is still disappointing, particularly given that he was only months removed from making this comment about the Spurs after they crushed his Heat in the Finals: "That's team basketball. It's selfless. Guys move, cut, pass. You've got a shot, you take it. But it's all for the team. It's never about the individual. That's their brand of basketball, and that's how team basketball should be played."

Part of it is surely ego, though I wonder if it's also because he doesn't necessarily know what's best for his team. His basketball IQ is clearly off the charts on the floor, especially with the ball in his hands. But how far does that intelligence extend off the court? He's lobbied hard for management to make some moves that have, in some cases predictably, not worked out.

[CDu]

The Lue era got off to a rough start tonight, as the Cavs laid an egg against the Bulls. Not like the Bulls played dominant basketball. They played solid defense, but got a LOT of help from the Cavs.

[Furniture]

They were quite awful really..

[Billy Dat]

Per ESPN's Tom Haberstroh, Steph Curry's 4th quarter PER is 46!!!!!!!!!!

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14655111

[NSDukeFan]

Have any of you been paying attention to ESPN's all-time player ranks? They first ranked the top 10 at each position (Duke would have had more players, except for the whole not having positions thing, &#128521. Don't tell Olympic Fan that Russell wasn't the top ranked player, or even the top,ranked center, but was ranked as the #3 all-time center. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...rs-nba-history. (Actually, I agree with his position that Russell was the GOAT, if winning is the ultimate goal.)

They are now ranking the top 100, doing 5 a day and are now at #16. I find it quite entertaining and it gets me to click, which I am sure is their intention. I find it to suffer, much as this board does, from recency bias. Steph Curry, with his two times making an all-NBA team was ranked just behind 10 time all-NBA player Elgin Baylor and ahead of 10 time all-NBA Kevin Garnett, and well ahead of 8-time champ 12 time all-NBA Bob Cousy. Http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...-nbarank-21-25
He may get there, but not yet, IMO. Maybe I am too much anti-recency bias. I understand the game has changed, but I don't see how Kevin McHale gets ranked ahead of Bob Pettit, either, though I loved McHale's post moves. I thought Bill Simmons did a much better job in his Book of Basketball at ranking players, probably because he thought about it more and wasn't just using it to attract clicks.
Still, very entertaining to think about.

[darthur]

Have any of you been paying attention to ESPN's all-time player ranks? They first ranked the top 10 at each position (Duke would have had more players, except for the whole not having positions thing, &#128521. Don't tell Olympic Fan that Russell wasn't the top ranked player, or even the top,ranked center, but was ranked as the #3 all-time center. http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...rs-nba-history. (Actually, I agree with his position that Russell was the GOAT, if winning is the ultimate goal.)

They are now ranking the top 100, doing 5 a day and are now at #16. I find it quite entertaining and it gets me to click, which I am sure is their intention. I find it to suffer, much as this board does, from recency bias. Steph Curry, with his two times making an all-NBA team was ranked just behind 10 time all-NBA player Elgin Baylor and ahead of 10 time all-NBA Kevin Garnett, and well ahead of 8-time champ 12 time all-NBA Bob Cousy. Http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...-nbarank-21-25
He may get there, but not yet, IMO. Maybe I am too much anti-recency bias. I understand the game has changed, but I don't see how Kevin McHale gets ranked ahead of Bob Pettit, either, though I loved McHale's post moves. I thought Bill Simmons did a much better job in his Book of Basketball at ranking players, probably because he thought about it more and wasn't just using it to attract clicks.
Still, very entertaining to think about.

I find these very fun too. I won't presume to judge Cousy or Pettit who I have never watched in any serious way, but the Curry vs Garnett comparison is easier.

A lot comes down to whether you rank based on what someone has accomplished over the course of their career, or based on how good they are/were at their peak. Bill Walton is an interesting example of someone who was very good at his peak but had very little longevity due to injuries. He finished 10th on the all-time center list. And for current players, do you give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll continue their current level of play for a while longer?

Anyway, there's no question that KG has had many more years of elite play than Curry, but most would expect Curry to have a fair number of years ahead of him. In terms of peak, I also think most would rank Curry ahead of Garnett. Curry is a mortal lock for MVP this year, which would give him two in a row to Garnett's one, and he's still getting better. There are more than a few articles discussing whether he should be considered for most improved player this year, after just winning MVP! This season, he's on pace to edge Wilt out for the highest PER in league history, and he's almost but not quite on pace to edge Kareem out for the highest WS / 48 in league history. And of course he's the unquestioned leader of a team that's on pace to beat 72-10.

So how's that compare to KG? Just depends on what you're looking for I think.