2015-16 General NBA Thread (not Duke-specific)

[CDu]

And... we're off! Apologies to those here who don't follow the NBA. But there is a strong contingent of folks that do. So this thread is for them (us) as the season gets underway.

The season kicked off with a potential Eastern Conference Finals preview (I use that term loosely as the Cavs were without Irving and the Bulls were without Dunleavy and had Rose active but recovering from a broken orbital bone). The game didn't disappoint, as it was very entertaining. The Cavs jumped out early as the Bulls with a new coach and new starting PF looked lost defensively. But the Bulls answered with a flurry of 3s. When both teams went to their benches, the Bulls' depth showed as they built a comfortable lead at the end of the first quarter. From there, it would be a mostly sloppy affair with moments of brilliance sprinkled in. The Cavs would chip away at the lead slowly until late in the third quarter. This time, the Bulls' bench let them down against the Cavs' backups, allowing an 11-0 run to put Cleveland right back into the game. In fact, Cleveland would briefly regain the lead in the 4th. However, the Bulls quickly answered and rebuilt an 8 point lead. A couple of Love 3s and some brainfarts by the Bulls would cut it to 2, with the Cavs and LeBron getting the final possession. Shockingly, Lebron got the ball (sarcasm). Shockingly, he attacked the rim (also sarcasm). Actually shockingly, Pau Gasol (he of the cinder blocks tied to his feet) was able to rotate and block LeBron's shot out of bounds. With 3.6 seconds left, the Cavs ran a double-screen for LeBron, but Butler recovered to steal the inbounds and seal the victory.

In the undercard, the new-look Pistons shocked the Hawks in Atlanta. All five Pistons starters scored 15 or more points, and Andre Drummond added 19 (!) rebounds. For the Hawks, the German Rajon Rondo (Schroeder) scored 20 off the bench, but the wings (Korver and Bazemore) let them down. It was a surprisingly comfortable win for the Pistons on the road. Kudos to them.

In the late-game, the 2015 champions faced off against the up-and-coming Pelicans. But Steph Curry did Steph Curry things, scoring 40 points and dishing 7 assists as the Warriors rolled to an easy victory. It was a disappointing game from Anthony Davis, who shot 4-20 and got just 6 rebounds.

Full disclosure: I only saw the Bulls/Cavs game as I can't stay up for 10:30pm start times these days. But the stat lines for Drummond and Curry were very impressive. In the Bulls game, it was a coming out party for Nikola Mirotic (who led the team in scoring and hit a ton of huge shots) and a weird night from Butler and Rose (neither of whom shot well at all despite getting lots of good looks). Cleveland looked shaky, as LeBron's back is apparently a concern (he didn't look explosive, getting blocked numerous times and settling for mostly jumpers). Love, Thompson, Mozgov, and Smith didn't look particularly good out there. The new additions (Jefferson and especially Mo Williams) looked very good though. Williams was a huge get in the wake of Irving's injury. He's a starting-caliber PG who will torch second units once Irving returns, and can make Dellavedova an afterthought. But it all comes down to LeBron's health. He has already had an injection in the back before the season starts. That's not a great sign, as backs don't typically get better with age. The Cavs will need to monitor his minutes throughout the season to make sure he's able to give it his all in the postseason.

[luburch]

And... we're off! Apologies to those here who don't follow the NBA. But there is a strong contingent of folks that do. So this thread is for them (us) as the season gets underway.

The season kicked off with a potential Eastern Conference Finals preview (I use that term loosely as the Cavs were without Irving and the Bulls were without Dunleavy and had Rose active but recovering from a broken orbital bone). The game didn't disappoint, as it was very entertaining. The Cavs jumped out early as the Bulls with a new coach and new starting PF looked lost defensively. But the Bulls answered with a flurry of 3s. When both teams went to their benches, the Bulls' depth showed as they built a comfortable lead at the end of the first quarter. From there, it would be a mostly sloppy affair with moments of brilliance sprinkled in. The Cavs would chip away at the lead slowly until late in the third quarter. This time, the Bulls' bench let them down against the Cavs' backups, allowing an 11-0 run to put Cleveland right back into the game. In fact, Cleveland would briefly regain the lead in the 4th. However, the Bulls quickly answered and rebuilt an 8 point lead. A couple of Love 3s and some brainfarts by the Bulls would cut it to 2, with the Cavs and LeBron getting the final possession. Shockingly, Lebron got the ball (sarcasm). Shockingly, he attacked the rim (also sarcasm). Actually shockingly, Pau Gasol (he of the cinder blocks tied to his feet) was able to rotate and block LeBron's shot out of bounds. With 3.6 seconds left, the Cavs ran a double-screen for LeBron, but Butler recovered to steal the inbounds and seal the victory.

In the undercard, the new-look Pistons shocked the Hawks in Atlanta. All five Pistons starters scored 15 or more points, and Andre Drummond added 19 (!) rebounds. For the Hawks, the German Rajon Rondo (Schroeder) scored 20 off the bench, but the wings (Korver and Bazemore) let them down. It was a surprisingly comfortable win for the Pistons on the road. Kudos to them.

In the late-game, the 2015 champions faced off against the up-and-coming Pelicans. But Steph Curry did Steph Curry things, scoring 40 points and dishing 7 assists as the Warriors rolled to an easy victory. It was a disappointing game from Anthony Davis, who shot 4-20 and got just 6 rebounds.

Full disclosure: I only saw the Bulls/Cavs game as I can't stay up for 10:30pm start times these days. But the stat lines for Drummond and Curry were very impressive. In the Bulls game, it was a coming out party for Nikola Mirotic (who led the team in scoring and hit a ton of huge shots) and a weird night from Butler and Rose (neither of whom shot well at all despite getting lots of good looks). Cleveland looked shaky, as LeBron's back is apparently a concern (he didn't look explosive, getting blocked numerous times and settling for mostly jumpers). Love, Thompson, Mozgov, and Smith didn't look particularly good out there. The new additions (Jefferson and especially Mo Williams) looked very good though. Williams was a huge get in the wake of Irving's injury. He's a starting-caliber PG who will torch second units once Irving returns, and can make Dellavedova an afterthought. But it all comes down to LeBron's health. He has already had an injection in the back before the season starts. That's not a great sign, as backs don't typically get better with age. The Cavs will need to monitor his minutes throughout the season to make sure he's able to give it his all in the postseason.

I Wanted to address the Hawks, though the only game I was actually able to watch was Bulls/Cavs as well. I'm just not sold on Atlanta. Many people are projecting them to grab a top 3 seed in the east again this year, but I'm not sure that's likely. They overachieved last season and lost Carroll in free agency. I think the 5 seed is a more plausible outcome, behind the Cavs, Bulls, Heat, and Wizards.

[nmduke2001]

Today marks the first game of Kevin Durant's final season with OKC. Of course, we don't know if that is true, but I can't see a scenario in which he decides to stay. In my opinion, Durant and Westbrook are pieces from two different puzzles. Durant may be the most gifted scorer ever and Westbrook is one of the most athletic guards in history. Unfortunately, Westbrook largely requires the ball to be at his best. That means that KD isn't taking as many shots as he should. I think KD and Westbrook are better without the other.

It's a shame that OKC was gifted with Durant when they bought (stole) the team from Seattle and were not able to put the right parts around him to win a championship.

[BD80]

... the new-look Pistons shocked the Hawks in Atlanta. All five Pistons starters scored 15 or more points, and Andre Drummond added 19 (!) rebounds. For the Hawks, the German Rajon Rondo (Schroeder) scored 20 off the bench, but the wings (Korver and Bazemore) let them down. It was a surprisingly comfortable win for the Pistons on the road. Kudos to them.


... the stat lines for Drummond and Curry were very impressive. ...

Many of Drummond's rebounds came in flurries due to his inability to score when he can't dunk. Detroit had 12 offensive rebounds in the 4th quarter, which sounds impressive, but in reality simply amounted to Drummond batting the ball multiple times off the offensive glass until the ball happened to go into the basket.

[luburch]

Today marks the first game of Kevin Durant's final season with OKC. Of course, we don't know if that is true, but I can't see a scenario in which he decides to stay. In my opinion, Durant and Westbrook are pieces from two different puzzles. Durant may be the most gifted scorer ever and Westbrook is one of the most athletic guards in history. Unfortunately, Westbrook largely requires the ball to be at his best. That means that KD isn't taking as many shots as he should. I think KD and Westbrook are better without the other.

It's a shame that OKC was gifted with Durant when they bought (stole) the team from Seattle and were not able to put the right parts around him to win a championship.

I wouldn't be surprised for Durant to sign a one year deal with OKC this off-season and then look for a bigger deal the next off-season.

[CDu]

Many of Drummond's rebounds came in flurries due to his inability to score when he can't dunk. Detroit had 12 offensive rebounds in the 4th quarter, which sounds impressive, but in reality simply amounted to Drummond batting the ball multiple times off the offensive glass until the ball happened to go into the basket.

Ah, the old Moses Malone approach!

[Billy Dat]

And... we're off! Apologies to those here who don't follow the NBA. But there is a strong contingent of folks that do.

Word to herb.

Shockingly, Lebron got the ball (sarcasm). Shockingly, he attacked the rim (also sarcasm). Actually shockingly, Pau Gasol (he of the cinder blocks tied to his feet) was able to rotate and block LeBron's shot out of bounds. With 3.6 seconds left, the Cavs ran a double-screen for LeBron, but Butler recovered to steal the inbounds and seal the victory.

After Love knocked down those two shots I thought it would have been a good idea to have LBJ drive and kick to him, but he had a clear path so I don't blame him for taking it. Great block by Pau and nice D by Butler, or uncreative play call by Blatt, on the final inbounds. I thought Rose looked tough, and he obviously watched a lot of Duke last year as he now sports the Jah/Q/Tyus/Justise carrot-top hairdo.

In the late-game, the 2015 champions faced off against the up-and-coming Pelicans. But Steph Curry did Steph Curry things, scoring 40 points and dishing 7 assists as the Warriors rolled to an easy victory. It was a disappointing game from Anthony Davis, who shot 4-20 and got just 6 rebounds.

Curry's 22 in the first quarter was insane. The banged-up Pelicans are pretty weak right now, but Ish Smith is a really nice addition for them. I also can't get over the transformation of Dante Cunnigham from the bruiser who helped send us packing in the 2009 NCAAs to a svelt 3 point marksman. Another "I am getting old" moment was realizing that Luke Walton is the acting head coach of the Warriors while Kerr recoups. Also, very funny moment for Alvin Gentry to receive his ring and then take up his new place manning the sideline for the opposition. To cap it off, The Pigeon looked bad which was fun. ESPN's TrueHoop has its own podcast and some of the guys who are around the Warriors a lot (either Kevin Pelton or Kevin Arnovitz) were making fun of the Pigeon's "branding" obsession and, generally, what a stiff calculated dude he is, which made me happy.

[CDu]

I Wanted to address the Hawks, though the only game I was actually able to watch was Bulls/Cavs as well. I'm just not sold on Atlanta. Many people are projecting them to grab a top 3 seed in the east again this year, but I'm not sure that's likely. They overachieved last season and lost Carroll in free agency. I think the 5 seed is a more plausible outcome, behind the Cavs, Bulls, Heat, and Wizards.

I'm with you on the Hawks. Especially if they don't find a way to replace Carroll. I don't want to say that their season last year was lucky (you don't luck into 60+ wins), but I never really bought them as a title contender last year (until Irving and Love went down, then I felt they could potentially make the finals). I think they were due for some regression anyway, but losing Carroll changes that team a great deal.

Health is always a big facture, as both the Bulls (Dunleavy is out indefinitely, Rose is always a risk, and Noah and Gibson are injury risks) and Cavs (Irving and Shumpert are out, Varejao is always an injury risk, and James has developed back problems) will have to deal with injury questions. But I agree that the four teams you mentioned seem like a stronger group than the Hawks. And I wouldn't rule out Chicago's neighbors to the North either. Milwaukee added Monroe and Parker to a young team that was progressing nicely.

[luvdahops]

I'm with you on the Hawks. Especially if they don't find a way to replace Carroll. I don't want to say that their season last year was lucky (you don't luck into 60+ wins), but I never really bought them as a title contender last year (until Irving and Love went down, then I felt they could potentially make the finals). I think they were due for some regression anyway, but losing Carroll changes that team a great deal.

Health is always a big facture, as both the Bulls (Dunleavy is out indefinitely, Rose is always a risk, and Noah and Gibson are injury risks) and Cavs (Irving and Shumpert are out, Varejao is always an injury risk, and James has developed back problems) will have to deal with injury questions. But I agree that the four teams you mentioned seem like a stronger group than the Hawks. And I wouldn't rule out Chicago's neighbors to the North either. Milwaukee added Monroe and Parker to a young team that was progressing nicely.

Rose is the one I really worry about with the Bulls. Dunleavy makes everything go more smoothly, but I believe the McDermott/Snell combo can at least approximate much of what Mike provides. I think the addition of Bobby Portis will help mitigate the injury risk for Noah and Gibson in a big way. He looked NBA-ready in the preseason, and may prove to be the steal of the draft, as well a key go-forward piece if/when the roster turns over next summer. At a minimum, he is a big upgrade over Nazr Mohammed as the 5th big.

[Billy Dat]

CDu - what's the local fan take on the Rose/Butler rivalry - is it a media creation or is there is a sense that they don't like each other and it could be a negative for the team?

[CDu]

Rose is the one I really worry about with the Bulls. Dunleavy makes everything go more smoothly, but I believe the McDermott/Snell combo can at least approximate much of what Mike provides. I think the addition of Bobby Portis will help mitigate the injury risk for Noah and Gibson in a big way. He looked NBA-ready in the preseason, and may prove to be the steal of the draft, as well a key go-forward piece if/when the roster turns over next summer. At a minimum, he is a big upgrade over Nazr Mohammed as the 5th big.

Yeah, Rose is the one spot that the Bulls don't have any backup plan for. Snell and McDermott have both looked good so far (well, Snell less so early in preseason, but he's coming on more recently). As you said, Portis replicates a lot of the strengths (to a less proven degree at this point) of Gibson and Noah. But our backup PGs are E'Twaun Moore (strong defensively but not a PG), Aaron Brooks (small, terrible defensively, and doesn't pass), and Hinrich (not physically capable of contributing anymore). Hopefully Rose stays healthy.

CDu - what's the local fan take on the Rose/Butler rivalry - is it a media creation or is there is a sense that they don't like each other and it could be a negative for the team?

I think for a while folks thought it was a thing, but now folks believe it was entirely a media creation. Basically, this one writer (Joe Cowley) started spreading the rumor. I think it started somewhere with the idea that Butler emerged in Rose's absence, and that the two were "alpha dogs" that couldn't coexist. But both guys have stated numerous times how made up it is. Rose has even gone so far as to say that Butler's emergence is the best thing for him, because it takes pressure off of him. And Butler has talked/tweeted numerous times in support of Rose. There's really nothing there.

The problem is that Rose is really quiet and not well-spoken, and Butler just doesn't care what the media thinks, so for a while neither guy did a good job of quelling the rumors. But there just doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of a rift, and lots of evidence that there isn't a rift.

[WV_Iron_Duke]

CDu,
Why didn't Dunleavy play last night?
Everybody knows that Grant Hill is a minority owner of the Hawks. Wonder how it will effect his NBA Channel activities? He is still listed to be on Open Court.

[Billy Dat]

CDu,
Why didn't Dunleavy play last night?
Everybody knows that Grant Hill is a minority owner of the Hawks. Wonder how it will effect his NBA Channel activities? He is still listed to be on Open Court.

I can tell you that Dunleavy Jr. had back surgery this summer and is out for quite a while.

Here's a fun recent podcast with him, turns out he is quite a binge TV advocate (Netflix, Amazon, HBO Go, et al)
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=13940691

[CDu]

CDu,
Why didn't Dunleavy play last night?
Everybody knows that Grant Hill is a minority owner of the Hawks. Wonder how it will effect his NBA Channel activities? He is still listed to be on Open Court.

Dunleavy is out for at least 8 weeks following offseason back surgery. Well, I guess technically he was out 8-10 weeks from late September, so maybe it is more like 4-6 weeks now. But there is no official timetable for his return.

As for Grant Hill, it is interesting to see that he may be stilla regular on NBA TV. I would suspect that would have to stop at some point, although I don't know if there is a specific problem with it. NBA TV is, after all, owned by the NBA. So Grant is partially tied to the product anyway as a part owner.

[Edouble]

I'm with you on the Hawks. Especially if they don't find a way to replace Carroll. I don't want to say that their season last year was lucky (you don't luck into 60+ wins), but I never really bought them as a title contender last year (until Irving and Love went down, then I felt they could potentially make the finals). I think they were due for some regression anyway, but losing Carroll changes that team a great deal.

Health is always a big facture, as both the Bulls (Dunleavy is out indefinitely, Rose is always a risk, and Noah and Gibson are injury risks) and Cavs (Irving and Shumpert are out, Varejao is always an injury risk, and James has developed back problems) will have to deal with injury questions. But I agree that the four teams you mentioned seem like a stronger group than the Hawks. And I wouldn't rule out Chicago's neighbors to the North either. Milwaukee added Monroe and Parker to a young team that was progressing nicely.

Yeah, Danny Ferry would not have left us hanging out to dry without a small forward, but I guess that's yesterday's news. I think several of our guys had a career year last year. If Bazemore and Dennis can develop a bit. we may have a more exciting, younger team in a few seasons, but the core group as it is now... I'm not a believer.

[Billy Dat]

Yeah, Danny Ferry would not have left us hanging out to dry without a small forward, but I guess that's yesterday's news. I think several of our guys had a career year last year. If Bazemore and Dennis can develop a bit. we may have a more exciting, younger team in a few seasons, but the core group as it is now... I'm not a believer.

For those interested, it's worth the long read to explore the circumstances that led to Ferry's firing - we all know the African-stereotype-riddled scouting report about Luol Deng which he read aloud was the seminal event, but there was so much more behind the scenes, especially part-owner Michael Gearon Jr's desire to take down Danny Ferry:

"Claws out: How a Hawks regime fell" - 10/6/15
by Brian Windhorst and Kevin Arnovitz
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13...ime-fell-apart

[superdave]

Dunleavy is out for at least 8 weeks following offseason back surgery. Well, I guess technically he was out 8-10 weeks from late September, so maybe it is more like 4-6 weeks now. But there is no official timetable for his return.

As for Grant Hill, it is interesting to see that he may be stilla regular on NBA TV. I would suspect that would have to stop at some point, although I don't know if there is a specific problem with it. NBA TV is, after all, owned by the NBA. So Grant is partially tied to the product anyway as a part owner.

Magic owned a piece of the Lakers until 2010. I cannot recall if he was a paid tv commentator during that time period.

I guess if Tommy Heinson can cheer for the Celtics during his former team's games then Grant Hill can be a studio guy. You are either good at the tv thing or not, regardless of your fandom.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Very happy to have the NBA back. As a Heat fan, I'm not used to such a long offseason...last season was 2 months shorter than the previous 4 seasons.

For the Heat, the general trend in the preseason was that the starting five looked like they couldn't figure out how to play together, and then they would put in Gerald Green and he would go off for 20-something points, and then the starting five would come in again and look like crap, and so on.

It's a little surprising how bad the starters looked considering they have plus players at each position. Maybe Deng is only an average SF at this point, but Dragic, Wade, Bosh, and Whiteside all have All-star potential. These guys have barely played together at all, though, so maybe it's not that surprising. I do think there will be changes at some point.

My preference would be to have McRoberts start and Deng go to the bench. McRoberts actually looked pretty spectacular this preseason, and I would even venture to say he's the best passer and facilitator on the team. Gerald Green should continue to come off the bench, and based on how he played in the preseason, I would say he's a Sixth Man of the Year candidate.

It will be interesting to see what kind of role Winslow can carve out. I think everyone was a fan of his all-around game, but he can't continue to shoot under 30%. I have total confidence that he'll figure it out, but it may take a little longer for him to become a major roster piece than I had originally expected.

The biggest key for the Heat is, of course, Whiteside. He can be a game changer if he can stay out of foul trouble and keep his emotions in check.

[pfrduke]

Oak just took Tyler Zeller off the dribble for his first NBA points and then swatted Marcus Smart on the other end. And yes, I am confessing to voluntarily watching the 76ers.

ETA: A 5-5 start for big Jah! 10 points in 6 minutes.

[SCMatt33]

Oak just took Tyler Zeller off the dribble for his first NBA points and then swatted Marcus Smart on the other end. And yes, I am confessing to voluntarily watching the 76ers.

Jah is up to 5-5 for the game! Just taking Zeller to school. This is the most excited I've been as a Sixer fan for a long time. Yes, I know it's the first quarter of the first game, but that's more than we've had to look forward to for awhile