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  1. #461
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by NSDukeFan View Post
    Are you sure Harold Miner isn't the next Jordan. (He had some sweet dunks, rock the cradle?)
    Nah. Brian Reese is the next Jordan. Or is that Curtis Hunter?

    And everyone knows that Jack White is the next Singler.

  2. #462
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    You are right to be wary of comps.

    When I compared Swider to Ryan Kelly and Cam Johnson, I was just trying to give you a sense of their games. Not saying that he will be as good as Kelly or that he can't be better than Cam Johnson.

    The one thing we can't see watching AAU or high school ball is his work ethic or his inner fire.

    Watching Matthew Hurt use his quick hands inside for a steal in traffic, I was immediately reminded of Christian Laettner -- who was the same size and also had an effective 3-point shot and had an amazing knack of using his hands in traffic. Would I compare Hurt to Laettner? No -- no way to project the intensity and toughness that Christian brought to the game.

    But stylistically, there is a similarity.

    PS One tidbit about Singler -- he started more wins than anybody in college basketball history. Several players (including Shane Battier) PLAYED in more wins ... but Singler started more often than any of them.
    Does Swider remind you of Evan Nolte, who played at UVA a few years back? A 6-8 shooter, who spent most of his time on the perimeter.

  3. #463
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Deeetroit City
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Does Swider remind you of Evan Nolte, who played at UVA a few years back? A 6-8 shooter, who spent most of his time on the perimeter.
    Nolte?

    NolteMug-tightcrop_400x400.jpg

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by jimsumner View Post
    Does Swider remind you of Evan Nolte, who played at UVA a few years back? A 6-8 shooter, who spent most of his time on the perimeter.
    I don't like that comparison -- Swider is more slender and runs the court MUCH better than Nolte.

    The thing is, Swider still has two summers and year in high school to work on expanding his game.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I don't like that comparison -- Swider is more slender and runs the court MUCH better than Nolte.

    The thing is, Swider still has two summers and year in high school to work on expanding his game.
    Yesterday, Swider announced that he had trimmed his list of schools down to four: Syracuse, Duke, Xavier, Villanova. He's scheduled to visit Duke June 23-24.

    Swider's Tweet from Yesterday

  6. #466
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    I don't like that comparison -- Swider is more slender and runs the court MUCH better than Nolte.

    The thing is, Swider still has two summers and year in high school to work on expanding his game.
    A bigger Joe Harris? A smaller Anthony Gill?

    My point is that Swider seems like the kind of player Bennett has succeeded with at UVa. A smart, skilled, fundamentally sound player, without elite run-jump athleticism, who will stick around and get better and better.

  7. #467
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkyJ View Post
    I have to imagine there is little to no chance Greg would let his son attend Duke, no? Would seem about as close to an anti-lock as possible. That guy LOVES to trash Duke
    I thought I read somewhere a year or so ago that Greg Anthony was high on Cole going to Duke because he had a lot of respect for K. I may be remembering the wrong person but I'm pretty sure it was a UNLV guy (and not Jeter).

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    I don't like comparisons and even less like comparisons based on players I've never seen, but based on your description, Swider sounds like a taller Andre Dawkins.
    Without Andre Dawkins' shooting from downtown against Baylor the Devils were going home in 2010 . . .

  9. #469
    Swider has the facial features that reminds me of Marshall Plumlee.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by kAzE View Post
    http://www.scout.com/college/basketb...ball-prospects

    Tre Jones's huge summer sprang his ranking all the way up to #7 overall, just ahead of Darius Garland. Jones is now the #1 point guard in the class according to Scout.

    Duke is involved with 6 of Scout's top 8 . . .

    #1 Marvin Bagley
    #3 Zion Williamson
    #4 Cameron Reddish
    #5 Romeo Langford
    #7 Tre Jones
    #8 Darius Garland

    This class has some serious potential to be explosive if we can land 3 or 4 of those guys.

    Other players on the Duke radar:

    #20 Emmitt Williams
    #63 Jarius Hamilton
    #69 Cole Swider
    #68 David McCormack
    Maybe it is just me, but it seems like a lot of the Duke targets this class, guys we are going after hard, are not like the ones we've seen for the past 3-4 years. The last 3-4 years, the main focus of recruiting has been among the top of the class. In the early part of the summer, we were waiting to hear about guys like Carter and Trent, Jr.; Tatum and Giles; Jones and Okafor, etc. The rest of the class was assembled around those players. Now look at who we are targeting on this list: Swider and McCormack are multi-year guys. Of course there are the Reddish/Jones/Langford players at the top of their class. You can quibble with my assessment. Still, it looks like this is going to be a class with a lot more multi-year guys among the core than we have seen of late.

    Are we seeing a shift in Duke's recruiting? And if so, is this a reaction to the current roster, the nature of the 2018 class, or something more fundamental? Let's take each of these questions in turn.

    Looking at the roster, Duke is going to need some bodies in 2018-19. Grayson Allen will graduate. It's nearly 100% certain that Trevon Duval and Wendell Carter, Jr., and most likely Gary Trent, Jr. will also be gone. We might put Marques Bolden in that category, too. That's the projected starting lineup heading into this season. What will remain will be a number of question marks: Goldwire, O'Connell, Tucker, White, DeLaurier, and Vrankovic. The latter two, along with Jordan Tucker, might reasonably be expected to contribute as starters or key reserves. But there isn't a guy there that you can look at this moment and say that he will be the focal point of that or any future roster. It's possible that Javin DeLaurier could pull a Chris Carawell and blossom into a legit stud, but it's hard to project that sort of thing.

    It could also be the case that 2018 is just a weak class, and so banking your hopes on it to build the roster would be a fool's errand. Maybe Duke gets Zion Williamson and/or Marvin Bagley III. Maybe Cameron Reddish also joins them to form an incredibly versatile and dynamic frontcourt. But it's hard to see that happening. My best guess is that Reddish, Jones, and Garland all end up in Durham. Of that group, Reddish is the most sure-fire one-and-done. Jones and Garland might be, but maybe not. Maybe they are multi-year guys. Duke will certainly need point guard depth in 2018 and beyond. Unless I am off on my assessment of Duke's chances with Langford, Williamson, and Bagley, Reddish might be the only lottery pick talent on the roster in 2018-19.

    Which leads you (or at least me) to think, is this by design? Duke has benefited greatly from the one-and-done era in both exposure and results. But it's volatile. And Coach K isn't going to be around for that much longer. Sure, he could stay for as long as 10 or 15 years. Who would force him out? But maybe he sees one final chance to put a team in place that fits his ideals of a basketball team. Senior leadership. Defensive oriented. Tough. It's a lot more likely that he can do that with upperclass players than relying on the kismet that resulted in the 2015 National Championship run. Can we bank on a young team suddenly turning on the defense switch in any given season? And if he does envision stepping away after so many wins, what better way to do it than by handing off a group of experienced players to his successor?

    Alternatively, maybe K knows that the NBA and Players Association have agreed that the one-and-done era is coming to an end. The baseball model, where players can go right to the NBA draft or have to stay in college for at least a couple of years, seems to be the preferred route. And so he knows that the top 10 guys in 2019 or 2020 aren't going to be reliable recruits. How better to keep Duke on top than to have a team of juniors and seniors right when those uber prospects have bypassed college altogether? The joke is on you, Cal. What are you going to do now that your program has to sell the idea of sticking around and improving? That's only happened once or twice in your time in Lexington and everyone knows it. When you're no longer the fast path to the draft, what is your brand going to be? Duke will always be about Duke. We were built on generations of guys that were Duke for life.

    That sneaky devil, Krzyzewski. There's always a strategy within a strategy, always a plan A and plan B.

  11. #471
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    NC
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Maybe it is just me, but it seems like a lot of the Duke targets this class, guys we are going after hard, are not like the ones we've seen for the past 3-4 years. The last 3-4 years, the main focus of recruiting has been among the top of the class. In the early part of the summer, we were waiting to hear about guys like Carter and Trent, Jr.; Tatum and Giles; Jones and Okafor, etc. The rest of the class was assembled around those players. Now look at who we are targeting on this list: Swider and McCormack are multi-year guys. Of course there are the Reddish/Jones/Langford players at the top of their class. You can quibble with my assessment. Still, it looks like this is going to be a class with a lot more multi-year guys among the core than we have seen of late.
    I don't really see a change in strategy. We've always recruited guys at the top of the class, and we still are recruiting those guys. We've also always recruited some guys in the 30-100 range, and we still are.

    Our first commit in the current class was Alex O'Connell. While we recruited Kevin Knox first, we also were keeping an open dialogue with Jordan Tucker. Both of those guys are in the 30-100 range. Last year, we got DeLaurier along with some of our top guys, and were recruiting some others in that range that went elsewhere. The year before that, it was Kennard who was seen as a 3-4 year guy to complement Ingram, with Thornton and Jeter as tweeners. And so on.

    For next year's class, we appear to be heavily recruiting 6 of the top 10 players in the class, while also recruiting a handful of lower-rated but still strong prospects. That sounds like basically the same approach we've taken for years now.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    Maybe it is just me, but it seems like a lot of the Duke targets this class, guys we are going after hard, are not like the ones we've seen for the past 3-4 years. The last 3-4 years, the main focus of recruiting has been among the top of the class. In the early part of the summer, we were waiting to hear about guys like Carter and Trent, Jr.; Tatum and Giles; Jones and Okafor, etc. The rest of the class was assembled around those players. Now look at who we are targeting on this list: Swider and McCormack are multi-year guys. Of course there are the Reddish/Jones/Langford players at the top of their class. You can quibble with my assessment. Still, it looks like this is going to be a class with a lot more multi-year guys among the core than we have seen of late.
    OK, I'll quibble with your assessment. The list to which you're referring has ten names on it, and six of the ten are among the top eight in the class. To me, that sounds pretty similar to what we've been doing the past few years. In fact, it sounds even more top heavy. Last season, for example, we were "only" involved with four of the top nine (five of the top 12); the year before that "only" four of the top 14. We were involved with even fewer top 10 guys in the years before that. So, I don't see how you look at a recruiting season where we're going after six of the top eight and see a strategy where we're "targeting" lower-ranked recruits.

    Secondly, if we ever under Coach K have a roster with a guy who was ranked in the 30s (DeLaurier #35), five guys ranked between #55 and #70 (Tucker, O'Connell, Hamilton, McCormack, Swider), and three guys ranked past #200 (White, Vrankovic, and Goldwire), it would be absolutely shocking. However clever you think Coach K is, I can't imagine him choosing to emulate the recruiting of Auburn or Florida State.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Kedsy View Post
    OK, I'll quibble with your assessment. The list to which you're referring has ten names on it, and six of the ten are among the top eight in the class. To me, that sounds pretty similar to what we've been doing the past few years. In fact, it sounds even more top heavy. Last season, for example, we were "only" involved with four of the top nine (five of the top 12); the year before that "only" four of the top 14. We were involved with even fewer top 10 guys in the years before that. So, I don't see how you look at a recruiting season where we're going after six of the top eight and see a strategy where we're "targeting" lower-ranked recruits.

    Secondly, if we ever under Coach K have a roster with a guy who was ranked in the 30s (DeLaurier #35), five guys ranked between #55 and #70 (Tucker, O'Connell, Hamilton, McCormack, Swider), and three guys ranked past #200 (White, Vrankovic, and Goldwire), it would be absolutely shocking. However clever you think Coach K is, I can't imagine him choosing to emulate the recruiting of Auburn or Florida State.
    I'm not so naive to believe that my arguments are impervious. But it does seem to me that Duke has backed off Bagley, Williamson, and Langford. I'm not seeing updates about all the coaches rolling 4 deep to watch a guy at Hoops Summit or Peach Jam. I don't think the coaching staff extends offers to Swider, Hamilton, and Williams at this point in the recruiting season unless they feel the ship has sailed for those top targets. We didn't extend an offer to Tucker until after Knox had committed elsewhere, after all. It's always seemed very obvious to me when Duke makes a player a top priority. Then again, maybe I am ill-informed about the status of some of these players.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    I'm not so naive to believe that my arguments are impervious. But it does seem to me that Duke has backed off Bagley, Williamson, and Langford. I'm not seeing updates about all the coaches rolling 4 deep to watch a guy at Hoops Summit or Peach Jam. I don't think the coaching staff extends offers to Swider, Hamilton, and Williams at this point in the recruiting season unless they feel the ship has sailed for those top targets. We didn't extend an offer to Tucker until after Knox had committed elsewhere, after all. It's always seemed very obvious to me when Duke makes a player a top priority. Then again, maybe I am ill-informed about the status of some of these players.
    RJ Barrett and Cam Reddish are the primary targets here. Everyone expects Barrett to reclassify. Those 2 dudes are plenty 1 and done. I don't think Bagley was ever going to come here and we chose to prioritize Reddish over Langford, clearly, which is why we backed off Romeo. I think Reddish is going to be a better player than Zion sooner rather later, if not now. I'm not worried about Williamson, if we get him, that's awesome, he's incredible, and if not, then we'll be okay.

    Reddish, Jones, Garland, McCormack and Swider would be a stupid good class.
    Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

    -Roy "Ole Huck" Williams

  15. #475
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by CDu View Post
    I don't really see a change in strategy. We've always recruited guys at the top of the class, and we still are recruiting those guys. We've also always recruited some guys in the 30-100 range, and we still are.

    Our first commit in the current class was Alex O'Connell. While we recruited Kevin Knox first, we also were keeping an open dialogue with Jordan Tucker. Both of those guys are in the 30-100 range. Last year, we got DeLaurier along with some of our top guys, and were recruiting some others in that range that went elsewhere. The year before that, it was Kennard who was seen as a 3-4 year guy to complement Ingram, with Thornton and Jeter as tweeners. And so on.

    For next year's class, we appear to be heavily recruiting 6 of the top 10 players in the class, while also recruiting a handful of lower-rated but still strong prospects. That sounds like basically the same approach we've taken for years now.
    Yeah, what I think has changed is how many guys we may want to/need to sign, given our huge numerical loss from last year...eight or nine guys, right?
    So we still go after four or five top guys, but we also have room to recruit some of the lower ranked guys...the numbers just don't work well if you only sign five guys each year and eight guys leave.
    Gotta leave a few returnees behind so people know where the locker room is, etc, etc.

  16. #476
    ESPN just updated their 2018 top 60 to a top 100. It's a bit different from scout's list,.

    As for Duke targets:

    1, Marvin Bagley
    2. Zion Williamson
    3. Cameron Reddish
    5. Romeo Langford
    6. Moses Brown
    11. Darius Garland
    12. Emmitt Williams
    19. Tre Jones
    34. David McCormack
    41, Jarius Hamiton
    48. Cole Swider

    The first eight are five stars ... the last three are four stars.

    Duke seems to be in the best shape with Reddish, Garland, Jones and Swider. Bagley and Williamson are up for grabs -- it's going to be a tough battle. Langford is now a long-shot. So is Hamilton. Don't know about Brown or Williams. We're in good shape for McCormack, but it's far from a lock.

    To me, this doesn't look like a significant change in recruiting -- most of the top targets are five star one-and-done prospects, backed up by a handful of four stars (who would be headliner recruits at 90 percent of the schools in the NCAA).

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    ESPN just updated their 2018 top 60 to a top 100. It's a bit different from scout's list,.

    As for Duke targets:

    1, Marvin Bagley
    2. Zion Williamson
    3. Cameron Reddish
    5. Romeo Langford
    6. Moses Brown
    11. Darius Garland
    12. Emmitt Williams
    19. Tre Jones
    34. David McCormack
    41, Jarius Hamiton
    48. Cole Swider

    The first eight are five stars ... the last three are four stars.

    Duke seems to be in the best shape with Reddish, Garland, Jones and Swider. Bagley and Williamson are up for grabs -- it's going to be a tough battle. Langford is now a long-shot. So is Hamilton. Don't know about Brown or Williams. We're in good shape for McCormack, but it's far from a lock.

    To me, this doesn't look like a significant change in recruiting -- most of the top targets are five star one-and-done prospects, backed up by a handful of four stars (who would be headliner recruits at 90 percent of the schools in the NCAA).
    Point taken! Seems like my musing about a shift in recruiting strategy was off base. Speaking of Marvin Bagley, I saw a note from a few places online that the top player in the rising senior class will be making an official visit to Duke this summer. Bagley has 6 schools among his final suitors: Arizona, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, UCLA, and USC. The uber prospect has received a lot of attention for a few years now. It's possible he's as good of a prospect as any we've seen in 10 years or more. And Duke will almost certainly have a need for a player of his size and skillset. Even if Wendell Carter, Jr. surprises and stays at Duke for a sophomore season, Bagley would nicely pair with him in the frontcourt with his ability to attack off the dribble and to shoot from distance.

  18. #478
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBenAkiva View Post
    [snip]
    Alternatively, maybe K knows that the NBA and Players Association have agreed that the one-and-done era is coming to an end. The baseball model, where players can go right to the NBA draft or have to stay in college for at least a couple of years, seems to be the preferred route. And so he knows that the top 10 guys in 2019 or 2020 aren't going to be reliable recruits. How better to keep Duke on top than to have a team of juniors and seniors right when those uber prospects have bypassed college altogether? The joke is on you, Cal. What are you going to do now that your program has to sell the idea of sticking around and improving? That's only happened once or twice in your time in Lexington and everyone knows it. When you're no longer the fast path to the draft, what is your brand going to be? Duke will always be about Duke. We were built on generations of guys that were Duke for life.

    That sneaky devil, Krzyzewski. There's always a strategy within a strategy, always a plan A and plan B.
    NBA and players just agreed to a new 7 year deal, and didn't change the 1nDone rule. Why do you think they would reopen CBA negotiations now?

  19. #479
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Because

    Quote Originally Posted by Neals384 View Post
    NBA and players just agreed to a new 7 year deal, and didn't change the 1nDone rule. Why do you think they would reopen CBA negotiations now?
    The Commissioner says the system needs to be fixed?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/s...done.html?_r=0

  20. #480
    I would hope to see Swider commit to the Cameron Crazies, sooner the better ! Just my gut feeling.

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