2018 Basketball Recruiting Thread

[kAzE]

Gotta remember that Markkanen is 2 years younger than Kuzma, and for much of the year was the main guy defenses had to think about on an awful Bulls team. Despite that, he put up basically the same numbers. I think that dude is gonna be a stud.

Ball and Collins are also 2 years younger, and both had pretty unequivocally better years (BPM, win shares, WS/48, VORP, real plus/minus) than Kuzma.

Collins is definitely interesting as a potential 2-way big, but neither he nor Markkanen projects to ever be in the same league as Kuzma as a ball handler. For me, that puts him in a different tier as a young player that you can potentially build around and create mismatches with. You don't often find 6'9" guys who can run the pick and roll as the ball handler.

Once he refines his decision making and becomes more consistent with his effort, I think he'll be the best of those 3 bigs. He had stretches this year where was putting up 30 point games on a nightly basis followed by stretches where he barely played (I think part of it was the Lakers trying to showcase Nance and Randle before the trade deadline). His best games were better than anything Markkanen or Collins produced, even with much more playing time.

Lonzo is different. He does have a higher ceiling than Kuzma IMO, but much of it will depend on how he develops. Kuzma is more of a sure thing right now.

[CDu]

Collins is definitely interesting as a potential 2-way big, but neither he nor Markkanen projects to ever be in the same league as Kuzma as a ball handler. For me, that puts him in a different tier as a young player that you can potentially build around. You don't often find 6'9" guys with guard handles and shooting ability.

Once he refines his decision making and becomes more consistent, I think he'll be the best of those 3 bigs.

Lonzo is different. He does have a higher ceiling than Kuzma IMO, but much of it will depend on how he develops.

Eh, I am just not sold on Kuzma as being a "you can build around this guy" player. I think they are all #2 or #3 options on a good team. I think you are underestimating the skills that Markkanen has as a 7-footer. Yes, Kuzma is a better ballhandler than Markkanen. He's also 3-4 inches shorter. I don't think Kuzma is a good enough ballhandler to really move the needle as a playmaker, so basically he is just a solid combo forward in my eyes. Conversely, Markkanen is a PF/C with 3 point range and the ability to drive and finish against closeouts. I think Markkanen provides a unique skill set of his own that is pretty rare in this era. If the Bulls can find the perimeter guys, his ability to shoot and drive for a 7-footer puts him on a pretty short list in my opinion.

[kAzE]

Eh, I am just not sold on Kuzma as being a "you can build around this guy" player. I think they are all #2 or #3 options on a good team. I think you are underestimating the skills that Markkanen has as a 7-footer. Yes, Kuzma is a better ballhandler than Markkanen. He's also 3-4 inches shorter. I don't think Kuzma is a good enough ballhandler to really move the needle as a playmaker, so basically he is just a solid combo forward in my eyes. Conversely, Markkanen is a PF/C with 3 point range and the ability to drive and finish against closeouts. I think Markkanen provides a unique skill set of his own that is pretty rare in this era. If the Bulls can find the perimeter guys, his ability to shoot and drive for a 7-footer puts him on a pretty short list in my opinion.

There can be a legitimate argument for both of those guys. Both of them create mismatches, which is the best thing you can do as an offensive player in the NBA. I suspect Kuzma would have put up even better scoring numbers had he been drafted by the Bulls, rather than coming off the bench (and playing behind 2 other talented power forwards) for the Lakers. As you said, Markkanen is younger, bigger, and a better defender, so there's that, but on the other hand, I like Kuzma's ability to run a pick and roll as the ball handler, and his jump shot off the dribble is much more developed. Neither of them are great rebounders, unfortunately. Markkanen can play the center position, but Kuzma can also play on the wing as a 3, so positional versatility is a wash.

I think I'd still take Kuzma given a choice between the 2, but it's not like there's a significant gap between them. They are very close. I don't think John Collins is quite on their level from a skills standpoint. I just like the idea of having as many legit ball handlers as possible, and Kuzma fits that description. That's the biggest reason the Warriors are so good. Everybody on the floor is a threat to make plays off the dribble.

[mattman91]

I had four roommates at various times at Duke.

Three of them smoked.

So, even if you didn't smoke, you couldn't get away from it.

I also knew people who were good competitive runners and smoked, including a guy who finished second in the state in the high school mile. He claimed smoking helped him keep his weight down.

I guess that depends on what you're smoking...

[kAzE]

Some of our 2018 recruits have slipped a bit in the rankings following the all-star games. Zion dropped to #5 and Tre dropped to #12 on both 247 Sports and Rivals. Rivals also dropped Cam to #3 behind Nassir Little, who has rocketed up in the rankings.

I'm still bullish on Tre Jones, but starting to get a little bit worried about Cam Reddish's lack of fire and competitive juice. I want to ignore those criticisms of his game, but it's hard to disagree after seeing him in action during these all-star games. Yes, they are all-star games and are nothing more than glorified pick up games, but when Nassir Little outplays Cam every time, it definitely is slightly concerning.

Nobody thinks Nassir Little is more talented than Cam, but based on recent performance, I can't disagree that Little deserves to be ranked ahead of him.

On the other hand, RJ Barrett has only tightened his stranglehold on the #1 spot, and now has a rating of 1.0000 on 247Sports. Only 4 other players have been rated this highly since 2003: LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Greg Oden, and Andrew Wiggins. Obviously, going by the latter 2 guys, this is far from a guarantee of future NBA stardom, but even Marvin Bagley was "just" a 0.9999.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Some of our 2018 recruits have slipped a bit in the rankings following the all-star games. Zion dropped to #5 and Tre dropped to #12 on both 247 Sports and Rivals. Rivals also dropped Cam to #3 behind Nassir Little, who has rocketed up in the rankings.

I'm still bullish on Tre Jones, but starting to get a little bit worried about Cam Reddish's lack of fire and competitive juice. I want to ignore those criticisms of his game, but it's hard to disagree after seeing him in action during these all-star games. Yes, they are all-star games and are nothing more than glorified pick up games, but when Nassir Little outplays Cam every time, it definitely is slightly concerning.

Nobody thinks Nassir Little is more talented than Cam, but based on recent performance, I can't disagree that Little deserves to be ranked ahead of him.

On the other hand, RJ Barrett has only tightened his stranglehold on the #1 spot, and now has a rating of 1.0000 on 247Sports. Only 4 other players have been rated this highly since 2003: LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Greg Oden, and Andrew Wiggins. Obviously, going by the latter 2 guys, this is far from a guarantee of future NBA stardom, but even Marvin Bagley was "just" a 0.9999.

All-star games carry a lot of weight I see.

[kAzE]

All-star games carry a lot of weight I see.

I kind of downplayed all-star games in my previous post, but the Nike Hoop Summit is a bit different, since it's the real junior USA team and there is actual coaching involved. It is by far the most competitive of the 3 major all-star games, so these rankings usually tend to heavily weight that particular game.

[Natty_B]

Zion has officially signed https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/987372600790790144.

[JasonEvans]

Zion has officially signed https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/987372600790790144.

Whew! I was really worried about that one.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Whew! I was really worried about that one.

So when is Zion going to Pitt?

[proelitedota]

Zion has officially signed https://twitter.com/DukeMBB/status/987372600790790144.

Wait, he is not following Capel to Pitt?

[Troublemaker]

Most of the major recruiting analysts are quoted in this article ripping the high school class of 2018.

The weakness of this high school class needs to be factored in when making predictions for next season. Duke on paper has one of the best recruiting classes ever after signing the top 3 recruits (as ranked by some services) and another top-15 recruit in Tre. But, in a typical class, our recruits might be ranked something like #2, #5, #9, and #20. Still very impressive but not necessarily historical.

[CDu]

Most of the major recruiting analysts are quoted in this article ripping the high school class of 2018.

The weakness of this high school class needs to be factored in when making predictions for next season. Duke on paper has one of the best recruiting classes ever after signing the top 3 recruits (as ranked by some services) and another top-15 recruit in Tre. But, in a typical class, our recruits might be ranked something like #2, #5, #9, and #20. Still very impressive but not necessarily historical.

Yeah, and depending upon the analyst, it might be even a bit more of a dip. Something like #2, #8-10, #10-12, and #20-30. It's really hard to say, but when listening to those guys from thestepien, they felt like the current freshman class was WAY stronger than the incoming freshman class, to the point that a guy like Collin Sexton might be #2 or #3 in this year's class.

[Natty_B]

Yeah, and depending upon the analyst, it might be even a bit more of a dip. Something like #2, #8-10, #10-12, and #20-30. It's really hard to say, but when listening to those guys from thestepien, they felt like the current freshman class was WAY stronger than the incoming freshman class, to the point that a guy like Collin Sexton might be #2 or #3 in this year's class.

Although generally when this type of talk occurs, including in the linked article, Barrett is not included. Most of this seems to stem from the U.S.A.'s weak performance at the Nike Hoop Summit (where Zion didn't play). I'm sure that a lot of us think Cam Reddish is one of the recipients of the shade especially since he had a bad game in Portland. I found the Athletic article, linked below, interesting in that it stated that while he had a bad game Reddish "stood out all week during practice."

https://theathletic.com/313871/2018/...uke-teammates/

[DavidBenAkiva]

Although generally when this type of talk occurs, including in the linked article, Barrett is not included. Most of this seems to stem from the U.S.A.'s weak performance at the Nike Hoop Summit (where Zion didn't play). I'm sure that a lot of us think Cam Reddish is one of the recipients of the shade especially since he had a bad game in Portland. I found the Athletic article, linked below, interesting in that it stated that while he had a bad game Reddish "stood out all week during practice."

https://theathletic.com/313871/2018/...uke-teammates/

It's fair to cast doubt on how good any team relying on multiple freshman will be in the upcoming season. We'll have to see them in action to know for sure. This broad brush applies to Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas. Oddly, it doesn't seem like Kansas is getting much flack for its preseason rankings even though, like Duke, they are poised to lose almost all of their starters and replacing them with several high profile freshmen. In the case of the Jayhawks, they will also add in three transfers, one of which could be a Player of the Year candidate in Dedric Lawson. He's really good. But so is R.J. Barrett (among others). And can Kansas trust a backcourt that includes a grant total of 2 years of college experience (Charlie Hall and Marcus Garrett)? I'm suspect that Devon Dotson and Quentin Grimes will be able to play any defense. Charlie Hall had a good freshman year at Cal in 2016-17, but can he provide leadership as a redshirt sophomore? There are a lot of questions there. I'm in a wait and see mode for pretty much every team in the Top 10, including Duke.

[CDu]

Although generally when this type of talk occurs, including in the linked article, Barrett is not included. Most of this seems to stem from the U.S.A.'s weak performance at the Nike Hoop Summit (where Zion didn't play). I'm sure that a lot of us think Cam Reddish is one of the recipients of the shade especially since he had a bad game in Portland. I found the Athletic article, linked below, interesting in that it stated that while he had a bad game Reddish "stood out all week during practice."

https://theathletic.com/313871/2018/...uke-teammates/

Yes, hence Barrett was the #2 that stayed #2. He's widely considered a very solid prospect regardless of class.

[kAzE]

Yeah, and depending upon the analyst, it might be even a bit more of a dip. Something like #2, #8-10, #10-12, and #20-30. It's really hard to say, but when listening to those guys from thestepien, they felt like the current freshman class was WAY stronger than the incoming freshman class, to the point that a guy like Collin Sexton might be #2 or #3 in this year's class.

That honestly seems like a little bit too far in the other direction. Just by the eye test, I would say our recruiting class for 2018 is still around the same quality as our 2017 class. I think RJ Barrett and Marvin Bagley are about equal prospects (I actually like RJ a little more because of his 2-way potential and leadership qualities), but a debate can be had for the merits of Zion/Cam/Tre vs. Wendell/Trevon/Gary (not counting AOC/Goldwire, because they are still here).

You could make a good case that Wendell Carter is better than any of the rest of that group, but Cam Reddish at his best is probably the better overall NBA prospect. Unfortunately, Cam is the poster child of these criticisms. We can only hope RJ's effort and competitive spirit rub off on Cam. Otherwise, I imagine this coaching staff will be pretty tough on that kid . . .

I do think however, that the pieces fit together better with this 2018 class. In hindsight, putting 2 elite big men together with a non-shooting point guard wasn't the greatest fit for floor spacing last year. The 2018 class doesn't have any amazing shooters, but all 4 of them are fantastic ball handlers, which on paper should translate to better on court chemistry and fewer turnovers, which were our Achilles Heel last season.

[CDu]

It's fair to cast doubt on how good any team relying on multiple freshman will be in the upcoming season. We'll have to see them in action to know for sure. This broad brush applies to Duke, Kentucky, and Kansas. Oddly, it doesn't seem like Kansas is getting much flack for its preseason rankings even though, like Duke, they are poised to lose almost all of their starters and replacing them with several high profile freshmen. In the case of the Jayhawks, they will also add in three transfers, one of which could be a Player of the Year candidate in Dedric Lawson. He's really good. But so is R.J. Barrett (among others). And can Kansas trust a backcourt that includes a grant total of 2 years of college experience (Charlie Hall and Marcus Garrett)? I'm suspect that Devon Dotson and Quentin Grimes will be able to play any defense. Charlie Hall had a good freshman year at Cal in 2016-17, but can he provide leadership as a redshirt sophomore? There are a lot of questions there. I'm in a wait and see mode for pretty much every team in the Top 10, including Duke.

Kansas is getting less flack because they will have more experienced players and less reliance on freshmen. The Lawson brothers are essentially seniors (redshirt juniors). Azubuike (if he comes back) would be a junior. Vick (if he comes back) would be a senior. Charlie Moore would be a redshirt sophomore, or roughly a junior. All of these guys have at least one year of being a starter and double-digit scorer. I don't think anyone would blink an eye about this group:

Azubuike (junior)
Lawson (redshirt senior)
Lawson (redshirt junior)
Vick (senior)
Moore (redshirt sophomore)
Garrett (sophomore)
Lightfoot (junior)
Grimes (freshman)
Dotson (freshman)
de Sousa (sophomore)

That's a TON of experience along with just a pair of talented freshmen in key roles.

If Azubuike and Vick stay in the draft, then the Jayhawks will look far less imposing. But assuming they return, it's going to just be a question of how good their guard play will be. Because their frontcourt is going to be dynamite.

[JasonEvans]

Kansas is still in the running for Romeo Langford too, right? That kid looked dynamite at the McD practices I attended.

[richardjackson199]

Kansas is still in the running for Romeo Langford too, right? That kid looked dynamite at the McD practices I attended.

The strong perceived leader right now for Langford is Indiana. Evan Daniels picked them today on 247-CB and ESPN expects him to go to the Hoosiers, whatever that means. Kansas still in the running though. TexHawk probably knows more.